Prety much confirms what I have said about Colbert...

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  • brothervad
    Pro Bowler
    • Dec 2008
    • 1914
    #1

    Prety much confirms what I have said about Colbert...

    I have been one of those who feels that the biggest reason for the retooling that needs to happen with the Steelers has to do with the failure of Colbert in the later rounds of the draft.

    Someone has done the analysis:



    Pittsburgh (B)

    Pro Bowlers: 9 (t-4th)

    Draftees Active in 2010: 35 (25th)

    Players with 50+ Career AV: 3 (t-13th)

    Players with 20+ Career AV: 18 (t-11th)

    Best Pick: S Troy Polamalu (No. 16 overall, 2003)

    Worst Pick: LB Alonzo Jackson (2nd round, 2006)



    Summary: The Steelers had the best group of first-round picks in the decade, with two likely Hall of Famers (Ben Roethlisberger and Troy Polamalu) along with stars like Maurkice Pouncey, Santonio Holmes, Laurence Timmons, Rashard Mendenhall, Heath Miller and Casey Hampton. They were also one of the least successful in rounds three through seven, interesting since they have such a sharp eye for top talent.

    [url="http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3749_Decade_in_the_making%3A_the_ultimate_NFL_d raft_grades.html"]http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Ar ... rades.html[/url]

    Alot of those picks were bad OL/DL picks. I posted it somewhere early in the fall (lenghty and color-coded).

    brothervad
    Tags: None
    • Northern_Blitz
      Legend
      • Dec 2008
      • 24373
      #2
      Re: Prety much confirms what I have said about Colbert...

      I didn't read the article. I think that there are a couple of reasons our late round guys tend to do poorly in terms of PT.

      (1) We generally don't have alot of needs because we almost always have a solid team going into the draft. Since we seem to have fewer spots open each year, we don't keep as many young guys. It also lets us gamble a bit on guys. Some of these gambles may not pay off, but we don't really need them to either.

      (2) Did they also look at success of UDFAs? I've always thought that part of the reason our late rd. picks don't tend to do well is because we are willing to keep UDFAs that play well over mid round picks that are dissapointing. Our FO is willing to walk away from drafted guys (or higher round guys) in favour of UDFAs (or guys that were drafted lower). Does that make the GM good or bad?

      Ultimately, I think you have to grade GMs on the quality and consistancy of the teams they put on the field. Hard to say the Colbert isn't one of the best in the business when you use those metrics.

        Comment

        • Oviedo
          Legend
          • May 2008
          • 23824
          #3
          Re: Prety much confirms what I have said about Colbert...

          Does it factor in at all that we are usually drafting at the bottom of Rounds 3-7 when you have more fringe players. Big difference in the talent when you are always near last drafting in later rounds.
          "My team, may they always be right, but right or wrong...MY TEAM!"

            Comment

            • Mister Pittsburgh
              Hall of Famer
              • Jul 2008
              • 3674
              #4
              Re: Prety much confirms what I have said about Colbert...

              I personally don't buy the explanation about not having needs due to having few holes. There are many examples of them being forced to hit up free agency or pay more for one of their own to stick around due to not having replacements. Look at the bmac scenario since they failed drafting d backs so many times. it would also be retarded to not need as many picks due to so many vets and then not trade up more often.
              @_Hellgrammite

                Comment

                • BURGH86STEEL
                  Legend
                  • May 2008
                  • 6921
                  #5
                  Re: Prety much confirms what I have said about Colbert...

                  Originally posted by Northern_Blitz
                  I didn't read the article. I think that there are a couple of reasons our late round guys tend to do poorly in terms of PT.

                  (1) We generally don't have alot of needs because we almost always have a solid team going into the draft. Since we seem to have fewer spots open each year, we don't keep as many young guys. It also lets us gamble a bit on guys. Some of these gambles may not pay off, but we don't really need them to either.

                  (2) Did they also look at success of UDFAs? I've always thought that part of the reason our late rd. picks don't tend to do well is because we are willing to keep UDFAs that play well over mid round picks that are dissapointing. Our FO is willing to walk away from drafted guys (or higher round guys) in favour of UDFAs (or guys that were drafted lower). Does that make the GM good or bad?

                  Ultimately, I think you have to grade GMs on the quality and consistancy of the teams they put on the field. Hard to say the Colbert isn't one of the best in the business when you use those metrics.
                  I agree, winning was not factored into the equation. Not doing so well as some fan's expectations in the later rounds of the draft has not hurt the Steelers. Not even sure what some fan's expectations are out of later round picks. More times then not, I believe later round picks are out of the league by their 3rd year. The draft is only one component of a successful organization. Successful organizations are measured by putting winning teams on the field consistently.

                    Comment

                    • steelz09
                      Administrator
                      • Jan 2008
                      • 4675
                      #6
                      Re: Prety much confirms what I have said about Colbert...

                      Just for arguments sake, I'd be curious to see how we stack up in the rankings if we did a comparison like this:

                      Our 3rd against another teams HIGH 4th

                      Our 4th against another team's high 5th

                      Our 5 against another teams high 6th

                      Our 6th against another teams high 7th.

                      That will eliminate the "we draft near the bottom of each round" arguments" and make things a bit more fair in comparison with teams drafting at the top of each round.
                      Tomlin: Let's unleash hell and "mop the floor" with the competition.

                        Comment

                        • StarSpangledSteeler
                          Starter
                          • Feb 2010
                          • 560
                          #7
                          Re: Prety much confirms what I have said about Colbert...

                          One of the things I've never understood about the Steelers F.O. is...

                          Why don't they trade away their middle round picks to acquire two 1st round picks? Or trade away this year's 2nd rounder for a desperate team's 1st rounder next year?

                          You've got a GM (Colbert) who's the best in the business at drafting 1st rounders but kind of sucks in rounds 2-5. So let him play to his strengths!! Get him an extra pick where does best!! He's not gonna miss!!

                            Comment

                            • anjang86
                              Rookie
                              • Dec 2008
                              • 41
                              #8
                              Re: Prety much confirms what I have said about Colbert...

                              Originally posted by StarSpangledSteeler
                              One of the things I've never understood about the Steelers F.O. is...

                              Why don't they trade away their middle round picks to acquire two 1st round picks? Or trade away this year's 2nd rounder for a desperate team's 1st rounder next year?

                              You've got a GM (Colbert) who's the best in the business at drafting 1st rounders but kind of sucks in rounds 2-5. So let him play to his strengths!! Get him an extra pick where does best!! He's not gonna miss!!
                              To get a 1st round pick now-a-days, you almost have to give up a 2nd this year PLUS your first next year. I don't see them doing that.

                                Comment

                                • Slapstick
                                  Rookie
                                  • May 2008
                                  • 0
                                  #9
                                  Re: Prety much confirms what I have said about Colbert...

                                  Does Mike Wallace kind of suck?

                                  Antonio Brown?

                                  LaMarr Woodley?

                                  Ike Taylor?

                                  There is a reason why so many draft picks don't make the team...
                                  Actually, my post was NOT about you...but, if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that &!+€# up and wear it.

                                    Comment

                                    • snarky
                                      Pro Bowler
                                      • Sep 2008
                                      • 1198
                                      #10
                                      Re: Prety much confirms what I have said about Colbert...

                                      But there is a difference between making the team and staying in the league.
                                      In response to his pleas, an officer said: "You think we've never arrested somebody that's made national media? ... We deal with the Bengals all the time."

                                      [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3880848"]http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3880848[/url]

                                        Comment

                                        • SMASHMOUTHFOOTBALL
                                          Backup
                                          • May 2008
                                          • 349
                                          #11
                                          Re: Prety much confirms what I have said about Colbert...

                                          Originally posted by Slapstick
                                          Does Mike Wallace kind of suck?

                                          Antonio Brown?

                                          LaMarr Woodley?

                                          Ike Taylor?

                                          There is a reason why so many draft picks don't make the team...

                                          I was going to make this argument also...although Woodley is a 2nd round pick I believe.
                                          It seems we have improved lately in rounds 3-7. Sanders is another nice pickup in round 3. Keisal was a 6th or 7th rounder also. Depends how K Lewis, Slvester, Citadel guy (name slip) and others pan out that are looking decent now.
                                          http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...ATURES/smf.jpg[/

                                            Comment

                                            • RuthlessBurgher
                                              Legend
                                              • May 2008
                                              • 33208
                                              #12
                                              Re: Prety much confirms what I have said about Colbert...

                                              Colbert built a team that, the last 6 years, has been to 3 Super Bowls and won 2 of them.

                                              That's the only stat I need to know about how good of a GM Kevin Colbert is.
                                              Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

                                              Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

                                              We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

                                              We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

                                                Comment

                                                • Jigawatts
                                                  Hall of Famer
                                                  • May 2008
                                                  • 2639
                                                  #13
                                                  Re: Prety much confirms what I have said about Colbert...

                                                  Colbert can hit on some undrafted rookie free agents every now and then. Just sayin'
                                                  sigpic

                                                    Comment

                                                    • SteelBucks
                                                      Legend
                                                      • Aug 2008
                                                      • 8075
                                                      #14
                                                      Re: Prety much confirms what I have said about Colbert...

                                                      Originally posted by RuthlessBurgher
                                                      Colbert built a team that, the last 6 years, has been to 3 Super Bowls and won 2 of them.

                                                      That's the only stat I need to know about how good of a GM Kevin Colbert is.


                                                      Most GM's would sell their first born to have the success that the Steelers have enjoyed....including the draft.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • brothervad
                                                          Pro Bowler
                                                          • Dec 2008
                                                          • 1914
                                                          #15
                                                          Re: Prety much confirms what I have said about Colbert...

                                                          I don't think I said anything about "getting rid of Colbert", but he does have some flaws...and anyone who doesn't think the beating that our franchise QB isn't taking it's toll in the long run is delusional.

                                                          That is completely due to misses over the last decade on O-line. and yes we have been to 3 Super Bowls in 6 years. That is the ony stat that matters...no arguement there. But we are getting to the point where there are a lot of potential holes on the defensive side of the ball.

                                                          Let me ask you this...can we afford Heyward or Hood to be an eary round bust? What happens next year if Harrison,Troy and/or Clark lose a half step. Not uncommon for early thirties guys to have happen.

                                                          Some suggest Worilds is a bust (good God does anyone remember how long it took Woodley) What happens if that is true.

                                                          My point is not that he didn't put a good team together. My point is his bad 3-7 drafts have allowed the depth to become "thin"

                                                          I won't repost it, but you can go look back at an earlier thread of mine that has identified the bad 3-7 picks since Ben was drafted.

                                                          brothervad

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