Tomlin and Art met with Goodell.

[msp26505]

Re: Tomlin and Art met with Goodell.

I think the Clark hit was clearly helmet to helmet.

While the two helmets did make contact, there is a difference between leading with the helmet - as Ray did on Hines, and leading with a shoulder and the two helmets making contact incidentally - as with the Clark hit.

One is reckless, one is inadvertent. One should have been a penalty, one is iffy on whether a flag should have been thrown. One should have drawn a steep fine, one should not have warranted a fine.......the problem is that the two hits both got the wrong results.

Quoted for truth.

[Keyplay1]

Re: Tomlin and Art met with Goodell.

This issue has been around a long time. Long before Goodell, long before Anderson, the new guy there. Here are some excerpts from articles on this going back only to the mid-nineties and I don't doubt the same type thing was going on many many years before.

From the Los Angeles Times November 10, 2002:

"Gene Washington, the league's disciplinarian, suspended Harrison for one game for the helmet-to-helmet hit that didn't draw a flag. In assessing the penalty, which cost Harrison $111,764 in salary, Washington said Harrison had repeatedly violated rules crafted by the NFL competition committee in 1995 to stop players from hitting opponents who are in a defenseless posture.

"You can't hit receivers who are trying to catch the ball in anything but a defenseless position," Harrison argued this week after practicing for today's confrontations with the St. Louis Rams' receiving tandem of Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt. "If a guy has his arms extended and his eyes on the ball, he's defenseless."

Washington also suspended Denver defensive back Kenoy Kennedy for one game after his devastating hit left Miami receiver Chris Chambers with a concussion.

Among the 19 fines Washington has levied for improper hits this season were a $75,000 bill to Dallas safety Darren Woodson, whose crushing hit on Seattle's Darrell Jackson caused the second-year receiver to suffer seizures and require an overnight hospital stay, and a $50,000 assessment to Philadelphia safety Brian Dawkins, who delivered a season-ending hit to New York Giant receiver Ike Hilliard.

"[The fines] are deterrents," Washington said. "We have very few repeat offenders, with the exceptions of Rodney and Kennedy. The point is, we are charged to make the game as safe as it can be while recognizing it's a dangerous game.

Gene Washington retired in 2009. He was a WR with the 49ers. Lots of teams, including the Steelers had run ins with him I think.

From Gerry Dulac in the PG Dec 05, 2010:

A three-year football letterman at Stanford who graduated from Harvard Law School as a specialist in labor law litigation, Anderson joined the NFL in 2006 after four years as executive vice president and chief administrative officer of the Atlanta Falcons.

His role as administrator of officiating, on-field discipline and rules and regulations compliance is not so much a rise to prominence but rather a job that has placed him at the forefront of what has become a controversial and contentious process.

For example, there appears to be a general assumption that NFL commissioner Roger Goodell is serving as both judge and jury in cases involving illegal hits. But Goodell is not responsible for assessing fines nor is he involved in the appeals process.

Anderson and assistant director of operations Merton Hanks, a former player, review the film and determine the fines for illegal hits. If the player wants to appeal the fine -- as Harrison did when he had two fines totaling $95,000 rejected on appeal last week -- his case is heard by Art Shell, a former Hall of Fame player and NFL head coach, and Ted Cottrell, a former NFL defensive assistant.

Shell and Cottrell are appointed and paid jointly by the league and the NFL Players Association. The NFL uses all on-field fine money for charity.

Read more: [url="http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10339/1108122-66.stm#ixzz1eQo2xF87"]http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10339/11 ... z1eQo2xF87[/url]

[color=#40FF40]Ray Anderson had an extensive fb background but was not an NFL player. His assistant Hanks I think played for the 49ers as did the long time previous director Gene Washington.

Doesn't this seem like a whole lot of responsibility and/or power to be in the hands of so few people? Especially something as subjective in judgement as these rulings are. Also if you read the article it makes it clear that the commissioner is not involved in this process.
[Nonetheless, since the Big Ben incident, I blame him for anything and everything possible]

I suspected that this was not really a new issue, and thought I had heard of eruptions of it in the past. Now I am sure. As a matter of fact I think it said the rule as it is now was in effect in the mid 90's and has not been changed. So what it amounts to is the fairness in enforcing the rule. On this I'm in agreement with most of the posters that it has not been the case regarding the Steelers. And of course this is a no-no.

[hawaiiansteel]

Re: Tomlin and Art met with Goodell.

Tomlin: Discussions with Goodell 'productive'

By Mark Kaboly, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Tuesday, November 22, 2011


Talking for the first time since meeting with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell last week at league headquarters, Steelers coach Mike Tomlin called the discussions "very productive" at his weekly news conference today.

Tomlin and team president Art Rooney II spent Thursday in New York meeting with Goodell about recent statements and actions regarding player safety, including fines being levied on the Steelers in which they feel fall within the rules.

"We exchanged some ideas and I think the meeting was born out of a conversation with Art and the commissioner," Tomlin said. "They thought it would be productive for all of us to sit down and talk. It (was) good bye-week stuff."

Tomlin would not go into specifics of what the conversation consisted of, but Ryan Clark`s $40,000 fine for hitting Baltimore`s Ed Dickson likely was the topic of conversation.

"I will leave the conversation with those guys between them and myself," Tomlin said. "I think that is appropriate. I will say this, I appreciate the opportunity to visit with those men and get their perspective on some things and be able to give mine."

In other news, Tomlin said the safety Troy Polamalu is dealing with sore ribs, but fully expects him to play Sunday night against Kansas City as well as quarterback Ben Roethlisberger (thumb). ... Linebacker LaMarr Woodley (hamstring), receivers Arnaz Battle (hamstring) and Emmanuel Sanders (knee) are day-to-day and have yet to be ruled out for Sunday`s game.

[url="http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_768586.html#ixzz1eTVOE500"]http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... z1eTVOE500[/url]

[fordfixer]

Re: Tomlin and Art met with Goodell.

The Steel Mill
News and updates about the Pittsburgh Steelers

[url="http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/2011/11/22/step-by-step-review-process-for-on-field-rules-violations/"]http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/201 ... iolations/[/url]

STEP BY STEP: Review Process for On-Field Rules Violations
November 22nd, 2011

The Steelers handed out a NFL-distributed 19-page pamphlet to the media on Tuesday entitled: STEP BY STEP: Review Process for On-Field Rules Violations.

The pamphlet’s distribution ironically came mere days after Mike Tomlin and Art Rooney II met with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell concerning recent violations and accompanying fines handed down to the Steelers.

Here’s a page-by-page look at the handout that’s full of big photos and large type:

Page 1: Cover Page with title

Page 2: The process for a play to be reviewed for disciplinary action starts with the NFL Officiating Department reviewing every play of every game.
*Photo of the NFL Officiating Command Center in New York.

Page 3: Any play that needs to be reviewed for possible discipline – whether penalized or not – is referred by the Officiating to the NFL Football Operations Department.
* Photo of a penalty flag on the field of play.

Page 4: Executive Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson, a three-year football letterman at Stanford University (1973-75), and Vice President of Football Operations Merton Hanks, a nine-year veteran (1991-1999), make the initial decision to discipline a player for an on-field violation. Discipline typically consists of a fine.
* Photo of Merton Hanks while playing for the 49ers.

Page 5: Fine amounts are not random
As per the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the NFL and the NFLPA, the fine schedule is provided to the NFLPA prior to training camp for its review.
* Photo of Roger Goodell and DeMaurice Smith shaking hands.

Page 6: The 2011 schedule of fines, which was accepted by the NFLPA, serves as the basis for the discipline. This schedule is provided to player prior to each season on the Player Policies Manual.
* Photos of the logos of both the NFL and NFLPA.

Page 7: FINE SCHEDULE
1st offense 2nd offense
Striking/kicking/kneeing $7,500 $15,000
Horse collar tackle $15,000 $30,000
Face Mask $7,500 $15,000
Leg Whip $15,000 $30,000
Late Hit $7,500 $15,000
Spearing $20,000 $40,000
Impermissible use of helmet $20,000 $40,000
Hit on defenseless player $20,000 $40,000
Blindside block $20,000 $40,000
Roughing the Passer $15,000 $30,000
Low Block $7,500 $15,000
Chop Block $7,500 $15,000

Page 8: FINE SCHEDULE
1st offense 2nd offense
Fighting $25,000 $50,000
Entering fight (active) $5,000 $10,000
Entering fight (no active) $2,500 $7,500

Page 9: FINE SCHEDULE
1st offense 2nd offense
Excessive profanity $10,000 $20,000
Taunting $7,500 $10,000
Football into stands $5,000 $10,000

Page 10: The fine amounts listed are minimums. Other forms of discipline, including higher fine amounts and suspension, may be imposed based upon the play in question.
* Photo of Seattle’s football stadium

Page 11: A player’s history is a factor in the level of discipline imposed. Players who were fined in 2009 or 2010, and whose fines were either partially or fully upheld, are considered repeat offenders and subject to more severe discipline.
* Photo of NFL logo.

Page 12: Discipline in each case is evaluated on its own facts and circumstances. This includes determining whether the infraction occurred during the normal course of a game or outside the normal course of a game (such as flagrant, unnecessary, avoidable or gratuitous violations).
* Photo of a pile of footballs.

Page 13: Once a decision to discipline has been reached, players are notified in writing via email, usually on Tuesday following a Sunday game.
* Photo of NFL logo.

Page 14: That correspondence includes the following information:
? The decision on what the discipline is
? The specific rule violation that occurred to trigger the discipline
? Instructions on how to appeal
? Instructions on how to view video of the play in question

Page 15: Players have three days from the time they are notified of the discipline to appeal. A hearing is then conducted within 10 days of receiving the notice of appeal.

Page 16: Appeals for on-field rules violations are heard in accordance with a 2010 agreements between the NFL and NFLPA. The jointly appointed and compensated appeals are officers are Pro Football Hall of Famer Art Shell and former player and coach Ted Cottrell.
* Photo of Art Shell while coaching the Raiders.

Page 17: Only after appeals are decided upon by Art Shell or Ted Cottrell is money withheld from a player’s paycheck. As long as players file a timely appeal notice, they will no forgeit any money in advance of the appeal ruling.
* Photo of Ted Cottrell while coaching the Chargers.

Page 18: Fine money from on-field player fines is donated through NFL Charities to programs for retired players via the NFL Player Care Foundation and the NFLPA’s Players Assistance Trust, as well as to support medial research through the Brian Piccolo Memorial Fund and the Lombardi Comprehensive Cancer Care Center. This on-field money has netted an average of $3 million per year over the last four years for the distribution to those charitable organizations.
* Photo of Cam Newton instructing kids how to play football.

Page 19: Full page NFL logo
– Mark Kaboly
Filed under: Uncategorized Comments (2)
2 Responses to “STEP BY STEP: Review Process for On-Field Rules Violations”

Jopa-n
November 22nd, 2011 - 10:53 pm

“other fine amounts can be imposed”

“discipline in each case is (evaluated) on it’s own facts and circumstances.”

If I was a union rep, and my client came to me and asked me why he was fined a certain amount outside or above others of like nature in circumstance, I would tell him the above sentences from the disciplinary part of the contract basicly gives the management the right to enhance the fines as they see fit- over and above the minimum from player to player.

‘Evaluation’ is such a broad and liberal term that managements love it. “We did not feel, in our evaluation that this person was guilty- over and above the minimum.”

“In our evaluation we found that the player went beyond the minimum fine level due to A, B, C etc.”

You can try to argue but its not your evaluation and the door is open to fine within a very broad spectrum from player to player. Bad for the players/employees. Great for management.
Rob
November 23rd, 2011 - 1:19 am

Points of interest:

Page 5: Fine amounts are not random
As per the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the NFL and the NFLPA, the fine schedule is provided to the NFLPA prior to training camp for its review.

Page 10: The fine amounts listed are minimums. Other forms of discipline, including higher fine amounts and suspension, may be imposed based upon the play in question.

In other words, the “fine schedule” sets a minimum standard. Any amount above that is random. Glad we got that cleared up.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Re: Tomlin and Art met with Goodell.

1) The new kickoff rule is just stupid

You know, I thought the same thing at first, but the farther we get into the season, I have come to these conclusions:

1. Obviously more kicks into (and out of) the end zone, mean more touchbacks, meaning fewer high-speed collisions on kickoffs, meaning fewer injuries. Mission accomplished by the league (and I am very much NOT a fan of the league office).

2. That said, there have still been a surprising number of returns from the endzone, meaning the best returners are willing (and apparently encouraged) to take chances to improve field position, resulting in a fair number of exciting returns.

3. It seemed that until the rule was changed, we were the ONLY team in the league who could never kick the ball into the endzone. Not a problem anymore. Suisham may have been able to kick into the endzone more often than Reed, but with the new rule, the opposing offense almost always has farther to go on average than they did in the past, which is HUGE considering the new pro-offense rules on the books.

I'm now a fan of the new kickoff rule.

I agree msp. I was not a fan of the idea at first but at this point have no complaints about it. I've enjoyed seeing returners take the ball out from 5-8 yards deep in their own EZ.