Ziggy Should

[fezziwig]

On the radio today they were talking about Ziggy Hood and his lack luster performance this season. Does anyone agree with that or have any comments on that ?

I have to agree and mentioned earlier this season that Ziggy doesn't play like a third year guy that was a number one pick. I doubt he will ever get to the quality that Smith was in his hay day.

I would love to see Heyward in there given the chance over Ziggy because I think Heyward is going to be a good player for us. Ziggy IMHO seemed to do better last season than this season.
Maybe with Harrison back and Woodley back Ziggy will gain from that but to me, he's just an avergae player at that position.

Ziggy Should be making an impact at this stage or at least every so often. I just don't see him bringing much to the table.

[papillon]

Re: Ziggy Should

On the radio today they were talking about Ziggy Hood and his lack luster performance this season. Does anyone agree with that or have any comments on that ?

I have to agree and mentioned earlier this season that Ziggy doesn't play like a third year guy that was a number one pick. I doubt he will ever get to the quality that Smith was in his hay day.

I would love to see Heyward in there given the chance over Ziggy because I think Heyward is going to be a good player for us. Ziggy IMHO seemed to do better last season than this season.
Maybe with Harrison back and Woodley back Ziggy will gain from that but to me, he's just an avergae player at that position.

Ziggy Should be making an impact at this stage or at least every so often. I just don't see him bringing much to the table.

Aaron Smith wasn't all that in his third year and got better as he gained experience and strength. The run defense has suffered a bit, but last year's run defense was ridiculous. Were Steeler fans expecting the same dominating performance this year while injecting the defensive line with some young blood?

Pappy

[Shoe]

Re: Ziggy Should

On the radio today they were talking about Ziggy Hood and his lack luster performance this season. Does anyone agree with that or have any comments on that ?

I have to agree and mentioned earlier this season that Ziggy doesn't play like a third year guy that was a number one pick. I doubt he will ever get to the quality that Smith was in his hay day.

I would love to see Heyward in there given the chance over Ziggy because I think Heyward is going to be a good player for us. Ziggy IMHO seemed to do better last season than this season.
Maybe with Harrison back and Woodley back Ziggy will gain from that but to me, he's just an avergae player at that position.

Ziggy Should be making an impact at this stage or at least every so often. I just don't see him bringing much to the table.

Your expectation of him was all wrong, if you ever thought he would be anything but "just" a solid run-defense player. And for that matter, if you have high expectations of Cam Heyward (beyond what I just described for Hood), you're setting yourself up for disappointment again.

Both are just going to solid, tough guys... HOPEFULLy in the mold of Aaron Smith. Brett Keisel. Ray Seals. Gerald Wiliams. Keith Willis. These aren't 10-sack guys. They are 3-sack guys, who take on blockers, and play their assignments to a tee.

As for Hood, his insertion into the lineup has coincided with our defense looking better, more spry, more like Steeler defense. I'm happy with his performance, in that regard.

[WindyCitySteel]

Re: Ziggy Should

3-4 DE do more than "take on blockers". Smith racked up some nice tackle numbers in his prime. So did Richard Seymour. If you get stood up every play and rarely get to the ball carrier, it's a problem. The good ones can shed blocks, too, and get in the backfield.

[Slapstick]

Re: Ziggy Should

Steelers D-Linemen in the LeBeau scheme are 2-gap run defenders with the responsibility to hold the point and occupy two blockers...players in other 3-4 schemes are 1-gap defenders with the responsibility to get upfield...

Richard Seymour has never collected more than 8 sacks in a year and that only twice...

[WindyCitySteel]

Re: Ziggy Should

Steelers D-Linemen in the LeBeau scheme are 2-gap run defenders with the responsibility to hold the point and occupy two blockers...players in other 3-4 schemes are 1-gap defenders with the responsibility to get upfield...

Richard Seymour has never collected more than 8 sacks in a year and that only twice...

I'm talking about tackles on running plays. Their job isn't solely to hold up two guys so the LBs are clean. Aaron Smith had years of 70+ tackles.

And how do you occupy two blockers when they're zone blocking, pulling, etc.? It's not like electric football where everyone just slams into the line every play.

[Slapstick]

Re: Ziggy Should

Aaron Smith had one year of 70 tackles and no years of 70+ tackles...

[SteelerNation1]

Re: Ziggy Should

Ziggy was dominant down the stretch last season and has been below the line so far in 2011. He was getting pressure and sacks on 1st and 2nd down late last yr. Not happening this yr. Hopefully with the return of Wood, he'll step it up a bit.

[Shoe]

Re: Ziggy Should

3-4 DE do more than "take on blockers". Smith racked up some nice tackle numbers in his prime. So did Richard Seymour. If you get stood up every play and rarely get to the ball carrier, it's a problem. The good ones can shed blocks, too, and get in the backfield.

Of course they did. Look, I never said you can't distinguish yourself in this scheme. But you are comparing Ziggy to better football players. Seymour was a top 10 pick based on his physical ability. Aaron Smith is a much better football player and athlete than Hood.

I made comparisons to Steelers of the past. and I stand by it. Keith Willis is a pretty good comparison I think. He was a good player, but certainly no "difference-maker". I see Hood much the same, and Heyward will probably be the same kind of player (though if I had to say, he probably has more potential based a lot on his ranginess (vs. Hood's more stout physique).

[NJ-STEELER]

Re: Ziggy Should

If we're not to expect decent sack numbers for their position then IMO it was a mistake taking these guys in the 1st round. If we wanted run stutters. Those guy can be found later and developed. Just look at our track record with smith, keisel, kimo (run of the mill free agent)

[Chadman]

Re: Ziggy Should

Stats don't really fit for 3-4 D-line players, so any statistical relevence for Hood is void as far as I'm concerned.

The run defence with Aaron Smith in earlier this year was bad. Since Hood's inclusion, it's improved. But while Hood's been in, Farrior, Woodley & Harrison have missed time. The base 7 for the Steelers have been flux all season & it's hard to really guage how well any individual is playing- after all, because they work as a unit, if one member of the unit doesn't play at the necessary level, it will impact across the rest of the unit as they try to compensate.

I don't think Hood has been a problem. At least, not a noticable problem. Aaron Smith WAS a notable problem as he was getting pushed around easily. I think it also was influencing Hampton's play early too as he looked to be struggling. Not so much now though.

Problem is, as a unit, the Steelers ran the risk over the last few years of there being a 'noticable decline' in the level of play as they refused to inject young players into the rotation along the front 3, certainly, and to a lesser degree, the front 7. I think the inclusion of Hood & Heyward has come just in time, as I think we are now seeing the decline of some of our best players for the last 5-10 years.

Farrior, Hampton, Keisel & Harrison are all 'aged' players. As long as they play significant roles in the starting front 7, we will run the risk of the D getting old- at least, so long as suitable young replacements are not on the roster & getting some playing time. Keisel looks to have his replacement in Heyward onboard, so we have him covered. The other 3, however, do not have a ready made replacement sitting behind them- and this is something the Steelers will need to address moving forward, or face another Aaron Smith Version 2011...

[BURGH86STEEL]

Re: Ziggy Should

If we're not to expect decent sack numbers for their position then IMO it was a mistake taking these guys in the 1st round. If we wanted run stutters. Those guy can be found later and developed. Just look at our track record with smith, keisel, kimo (run of the mill free agent)

It's more difficult to find guys to play 3-4 DE now then it was several years ago. More teams play the 3-4 or variations of the defense then in the past. Smith and Keisel were players that were drafted later because less teams ran the 3-4 defense.

[Shoe]

Re: Ziggy Should

If we're not to expect decent sack numbers for their position then IMO it was a mistake taking these guys in the 1st round. If we wanted run stutters. Those guy can be found later and developed. Just look at our track record with smith, keisel, kimo (run of the mill free agent)

Well, that's subjective and probably a decent amount of credence to your opinion. There are "1st round" talents that can make that sort of impact as a 5-technique DE. It's not that easy (i.e. just tie up blockers). And BURGH86STEEL's comment is relevant as well: with so many other teams trying to copy our scheme, the premium for 5-technique Ends is higher.

[NJ-STEELER]

Re: Ziggy Should

McClendon is another guy that's gotten into the rotation and he went undrafted

Pretty sure they like Bryant and it's the 2nd time they have had woods on the PS. all these guys were available to the rest of the leAgue.
Even the chavis kid looked decent in preseason before they tried to move him to TE DUE To having enough DL

These are the guys I don't really expect to see sacks/pressures... Not the 1st round picks

[Slapstick]

Re: Ziggy Should

This particular 3-4 scheme isn't designed for DEs to get copious amounts of sacks...it just isn't...

As to why the Steelers felt the need to draft Hood and Heyward in round 1 as opposed to looking for DE later in the draft, I suppose you would have to ask them...