Can we please be honest about the Oline?

[feltdizz]

Re: Can we please be honest about the Oline?

Why is every quote from a player that doesn't suit ones agenda get the "what do you think they would say?"

I read that a lot... but then I will see a player quoted and used as proof XY and Z are true.

Anyway... the OL was great because Ben was quick and the RB's were quick in the hole. I still don't have faith we have turned a corner yet on OL

[Djfan]

Re: Can we please be honest about the Oline?

Anyway... the OL was great because Ben was quick and the RB's were quick in the hole. I still don't have faith we have turned a corner yet on OL

This was my point.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Re: Can we please be honest about the Oline?

I don't believe the Steelers changed much in what they like to do vs the Titans. What was clear is the way Ben executed the offense. He got rid of the ball quickly. That quick decision making made life difficult for the Titans. The offensive line did a better job executing and winning one on one.

Since you believe I am blind, point out how the scheme changed dramatically from weeks 1 through 4 to week 5 vs the Titans. I think you will have a difficult time providing evidence.

As I stated, what was clear was the way Ben executed. Ben stated, "I really just tried to approach the game by not trying to take the home run every play. I really tried to focus on taking the underneath stuff; take what the defense gave us." That was Ben changing the way he likes to play.

I don't devalue the impact of coaching on the game. I believe this team receives good coaching. We've all seen players thrive with this coaching. It's not like the coaches become incompetent from game to game. We've all seen players thrive with this coaching. I also believe that execution or poor execution is mostly responsible for wins or losses. We can prove and fault execution for most losses around the NFL. Execution falls at the feet of the players. You don't have to agree with my, players, and coaches opinions.

Roethlisberger feels roughly the same way about the constant carping directed at Arians, whether it is on sports talk radio or Internet message boards.

"I think it's unfair, unwarranted because people don't know what goes on," Roethlisberger said of the inner workings of the Steelers' offense.

Mike Wallace stated, "it's the execution not the play calls." Bill Bellichick, "this games about execution" You will find that to be true if you pay attention to what happens around the league.

One last thing, all coaches make questionable decisions and bad play calls.

Yeah, you do minimize the role of coaching and we've gone back and forth several times on the subject...this is just another example of it rearing it's head.

Way to cherry-pick Roethlisberger's comments by the way. In that same response he stated that sometime there is no underneath stuff because everyone on the route is going deep. Today [yesterday] he was able to do that and take advantage of their soft zone. A clear implication of shorter routes being targeted underneath.

Do you think Ben hit all of those short passes on his second or third read? Of course not...they were called in from the sideline as the primary option. Sure Ben has the ability to change any call he wants (see the pick at the end of the half), but unless you are implying that Ben called his own plays or audibled all of those quick passes, then who who do you think called them?

Also a nice job of quoting players taking responsibility for their execution to emphasize your point. What do you think they are going to say...it's the coaching?

You don't need to tell me how important execution is. You can have the most genius scheme and play-calling in the history of the game and poor execution will doom you every time.

We got both great execution and great coaching yesterday...the latter we seldom see from BA.

Yeah, we can go back and forth on this issue. You believe BA sucks and I don't believe he is as bad as you believe. The simple fact remains is that we don't know the inner workings of the offense. What we can see is that the offense looks really good when the QB plays up to top of his ability. I am a realist in that I don't expect Ben to perform that well every game. The offense will be difficult to deal with if Ben plays more like he did vs the Titans on a consistent basis. I believe the offense would rank among the best. You don't have to agree with my assessment.

The players and coaches know the inner workings of offense. I will explain why the players and coaches state the main reason why plays failed was due to execution. It goes back to reviewing the game film. The coaches point out the break downs to the players. The players can see for themselves where break downs in execution occurred. It's really that simple. I don't expect you to agree. You would have us believe based on limited knowledge of the offense, that BA made lots of changes. You probably feel that BA is incapable of changing. I still saw plays that were run up the middle, 2 TE sets, off set I formation (with Johnson in the backfield), 4 and 5 wr sets. They even ran a 5 WR set down on the goal line for a TD.

IMO, the biggest difference in the offense was Ben's quick decision making. For the most part, he threw the ball quickly and accurately. If you can, rewatch some of the Titans game. You will notice the Titans had rushers that beat the Oline. In some cases, they had free rushers coming at Ben. That quick decision making made all the difference in the world.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Re: Can we please be honest about the Oline?

Why is every quote from a player that doesn't suit ones agenda get the "what do you think they would say?"

I read that a lot... but then I will see a player quoted and used as proof XY and Z are true.

Anyway... the OL was great because Ben was quick and the RB's were quick in the hole. I still don't have faith we have turned a corner yet on OL

He didn't seem to understand why players and coaches made that statement. I believe I gave him a reasonable explanation.

The point that I've always made is that Ben's inconsistency is a big reason why the offense struggled from game to game. The play of the QB can have a trickle down effect on every player on offense. If Ben can play with more consistency, it can make life more difficult for defenses.

[Leper Friend]

Re: Can we please be honest about the Oline?

IMO, the biggest difference in the offense was Ben's quick decision making. For the most part, he threw the ball quickly and accurately. If you can, rewatch some of the Titans game. You will notice the Titans had rushers that beat the Oline. In some cases, they had free rushers coming at Ben. That quick decision making made all the difference in the world.

I agree that we'll never really know in some instances why Ben doesn't throw quicker.I've yelled at the TV plenty of times for Ben to just get rid of it.However , I've seen plenty of times where there just wasn't any options because the actual play design was so long developing. That is people's biggest complaint about BA.

I was at the game sunday and it really did seem like the patterns for the most part were shorter and quicker.I'm giving BA credit for adjusting vs the Titans. But for alot of times , I feel the blame can be shared for Ben not throwing quick enough.

[feltdizz]

Re: Can we please be honest about the Oline?

IMO, the biggest difference in the offense was Ben's quick decision making. For the most part, he threw the ball quickly and accurately. If you can, rewatch some of the Titans game. You will notice the Titans had rushers that beat the Oline. In some cases, they had free rushers coming at Ben. That quick decision making made all the difference in the world.

I agree that we'll never really know in some instances why Ben doesn't throw quicker.I've yelled at the TV plenty of times for Ben to just get rid of it.However , I've seen plenty of times where there just wasn't any options because the actual play design was so long developing. That is people's biggest complaint about BA.

I was at the game sunday and it really did seem like the patterns for the most part were shorter and quicker.I'm giving BA credit for adjusting vs the Titans. But for alot of times , I feel the blame can be shared for Ben not throwing quick enough.

It's both... BA and Ben are attached at the hip and until Ben wants BA gone I doubt he will be. Some games I think BA and Ben believe they can go downfield.. some games the WR are supposed to be HOT and they don't turn around. I don't blame Ben or BA for that.. that is the WR coach and the WR's fault.

However, behind this OL Ben and BA know what to expect... How can Ben walk onto the field with confidence knowing the OL is bad and all the WR's are running deep? Why would Ben defend a guy putting him in this situation? Probably because Ben is just as stubborn as BA when it comes to his abilities... and probably because our FO is just as stubborn when it comes to the OL.

Every year we see this play out... Ben hits Wallace deep a few times, then teams adjust and Ben gets crushed for a few games.. and then Ben and BA "get it and change"

Both really and truly believe every season that we can go deep with our bad OL and it takes a broken something to change their minds. I would love to see these 2 take what is there from game 1 on but I doubt it will happen because we keep reaching SB's.

Throwing quick passes and having 5 TD's taste good to Ben... but I really think breaking tackles and slinging it 50 yards to Wallace taste AWESOME and Ben will always want that taste over the short and efficient.

If you look back at Ben's career on and off the field I think it's obvious which is more attractive to him.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Re: Can we please be honest about the Oline?

IMO, the biggest difference in the offense was Ben's quick decision making. For the most part, he threw the ball quickly and accurately. If you can, rewatch some of the Titans game. You will notice the Titans had rushers that beat the Oline. In some cases, they had free rushers coming at Ben. That quick decision making made all the difference in the world.

I agree that we'll never really know in some instances why Ben doesn't throw quicker.I've yelled at the TV plenty of times for Ben to just get rid of it.However , I've seen plenty of times where there just wasn't any options because the actual play design was so long developing. That is people's biggest complaint about BA.

I was at the game sunday and it really did seem like the patterns for the most part were shorter and quicker.I'm giving BA credit for adjusting vs the Titans. But for alot of times , I feel the blame can be shared for Ben not throwing quick enough.

People have many gripes about the BA offense. There is truth in that they run routes down the field. We can only speculate as to why. Maybe to keep defenses honest and not to sit on routes? Maybe to create space and have bigger throwing lanes for Ben? Even with patterns and plays designed to go down the field, the ball needs to come out in a timely fashion. It takes 4 seconds for most WR's to run 40 yards. Every play is not designed to go 40 yards. I know that every play pattern or design is not down the field. Many times, there were and are short options available. I believe the issues with some fans is they attempt to sum up the offense based on a handful of play or plays that were not successful. Same can be said for the play of some players on this team.

Most offenses live and die by the play of the QB.

[Djfan]

Re: Can we please be honest about the Oline?

IMO, the biggest difference in the offense was Ben's quick decision making. For the most part, he threw the ball quickly and accurately. If you can, rewatch some of the Titans game. You will notice the Titans had rushers that beat the Oline. In some cases, they had free rushers coming at Ben. That quick decision making made all the difference in the world.

This is the point Burgh. Ben's actions changed the dynamic of the Titan's rush, which makes the Oline better.

Simple.

[Flasteel]

Re: Can we please be honest about the Oline?

Why is every quote from a player that doesn't suit ones agenda get the "what do you think they would say?"

I read that a lot... but then I will see a player quoted and used as proof XY and Z are true.

Anyway... the OL was great because Ben was quick and the RB's were quick in the hole. I still don't have faith we have turned a corner yet on OL

He didn't seem to understand why players and coaches made that statement. I believe I gave him a reasonable explanation.

The point that I've always made is that Ben's inconsistency is a big reason why the offense struggled from game to game. The play of the QB can have a trickle down effect on every player on offense. If Ben can play with more consistency, it can make life more difficult for defenses.

I've got no agenda to push...as a matter of fact I'm going against my normal stance and giving props to BA for a great game.

If neither one of you can see that there was a difference in the play-calling and overall game plan, then I don't know what to tell you. To suggest that Ben was simply more decisive and consistent is absurd. To attribute the struggles of our offense to Ben's "inconsistency" is even more ridiculous.

What we finally saw on Sunday were a number of tactics normally employed to counter a strong rush or shore-up protection issues. Quick passes, underneath routes, screens, draws, and even a couple of misdirection plays. Kudos to BA for a great game plan and superb play-calling. Too bad we haven't seen this from him on any consistent level.

Kudos also go out to the guys on the field for executing that game plan and raising their level of play. Maybe...just maybe it had a little something to do with putting them in a position to succeed.

[hawaiiansteel]

Re: Can we please be honest about the Oline?

Monday news and notes

MONDAY, OCTOBER 10, 2011
posted by Dale Lolley

If rookie Marcus Gilbert is unable to play next Sunday against Jacksonville - and that looks pretty likely - the Steelers will start their sixth different offensive line in six games.

I've been covering the NFL since 1993 and don't ever remember that happening to a team before.

[url="http://www.observer-reporter.com/or/sidelines/"]http://www.observer-reporter.com/or/sidelines/[/url]

[fordfixer]

Re: Can we please be honest about the Oline?

Colts, Steelers lead Week 5 New York Life Protection Index

[url="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-nflprotectionindex"]http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=a ... ctionindex[/url]

NORTHBROOK, Ill. (STATS) - While the Indianapolis Colts offensive line finally had the kind of day to which Peyton Manning(notes) grew accustomed, the Pittsburgh Steelers picked an opportune time to give Ben Roethlisberger(notes) the protection he’s not used to getting.

Though the Colts remained winless, it was hard to blame an offense that had its best game of the season. The Steelers, meanwhile, put a halt to their struggles in the trenches and rolled to victory.

The much-maligned offensive lines for Indianapolis and Pittsburgh came through with impressive efforts in Week 5, finishing as the top two teams in the New York Life Protection Index.




The NYLPI is a proprietary formula created by STATS LLC which measures pass protection by using metrics such as length of passes, penalties by offensive linemen, sacks allowed and quarterback hurries and knockdowns.

If anything positive came out of Indianapolis’ 28-24 home loss to Kansas City on Sunday, it was that Curtis Painter(notes) remained upright nearly the entire game.

Pressed into service for his second straight start because of the neck injury to Manning and a concussion suffered by backup Kerry Collins(notes), Painter threw for 277 yards as the Colts set season highs in points and total yards (355). The third-year pro was not sacked, hurried only one time and knocked down once.

The Colts’ makeshift offensive line did not commit a false-start penalty and was whistled for holding once to grade out with a week-high 99.6 NYLPI rating. That’s 25 points higher than the previous season-best mark for an offensive line that had long been considered among the league’s best when Manning was under center.

Pittsburgh’s front five also had been mostly dreadful this year, letting Roethlisberger get sacked 14 times through four games. His mobility was further limited Sunday by a sprained left foot, but the Steelers’ O-line stepped up to key a 38-17 win over Tennessee.

That unit did not commit a false start or a holding penalty en route to a 98.3 NYLPI rating. Roethlisberger was sacked only once, hurried twice and knocked down twice, and that solid protection helped him match a career high with five touchdown passes.

“What this does for us, I think, is set us up for the rest of the season,” guard Ramon Foster(notes) said. “We’ve found out through five games who can play where on the O-line and what we can do if we’re healthy, what we can do even if we’re not completely healthy, for that matter.”

What made the offensive line’s performance particularly impressive was that Max Starks(notes) started at left tackle just five days after re-signing with his former team.

“He stepped up,” Roethlisberger said. “We brought him to town this week … and it’s like ‘OK, let’s see how we’re going to use him.’”

One week earlier in a 17-10 loss at Houston, Big Ben was sacked five times, hurried five more and knocked to the ground on eight occasions for a season-low 22.0 NYLPI rating.

Ravaged by injuries, the revamped front five also played a big role in the Steelers rushing for a season-high 174 yards this week. They piled up those yards without injured star Rashard Mendenhall(notes) in the backfield, as Jonathan Dwyer(notes) rushed for 107 yards on 11 carries in his second NFL game.

“They answered the bell,” Dwyer said of the offensive line. “They answered the challenge that everybody gave them. … They showed the league what we’re about.”

As many holes as Dwyer found thanks to the Pittsburgh O-line, the Colts could not find the same kind of success in the ground game - a big reason why they remained among the NFL’s three winless teams.

Indianapolis ran for 78 yards on 27 carries, dropping its season average to 82.0 rushing yards per game - 30th in the league.

“We just need to execute that better,” coach Jim Caldwell said. “That’s my job to get them to play better.”

The Colts blew a 17-0 lead to start 0-5 for the first time since losing 10 straight to open the 1997 season.

“The reality is we haven’t finished, we haven’t won games and we’re 0-5 because of it,” center Jeff Saturday(notes) said. “If we finished games we’d be 1-and-something or 2-and-something.”

The good news for the Colts is they may have found a comfort zone with the front five despite everything the unit has been through this season. Injuries to right guard Ryan Diem(notes) (ankle), starting left tackle Anthony Castonzo(notes) (ankle) and backup left tackle Ben Ijalana(notes) (knee) have forced Indianapolis to juggle its already inexperienced offensive line.

Chicago also has done its fair share of mixing and matching along the front five, and that unit’s struggles continued Monday night in a 24-13 loss at Detroit. The Bears committed a whopping nine false-start penalties - no other team had more than four this week.

“We were going against a loud crowd, but that isn’t an excuse,” coach Lovie Smith said. “Pre-snap penalties kill you.”

Jay Cutler(notes) was under constant pressure once again as he was sacked three times, hurried seven and knocked down six.

“Jay was under a lot of pressure,” Smith said.

Still, the Bears’ 38.1 NYLPI rating wasn’t the worst of the week. The two teams that were below them, however, came through with victories.

Oakland’s offensive line committed three holding penalties and was responsible for quarterback Jason Campbell(notes) being knocked down 12 times for a week-low 20.0 rating.

Despite the poor performance up front, Campbell was on his feet enough to throw for two touchdowns and help the Raiders stun the Texans with an emotional 25-20 road win - one day after owner Al Davis died.

Interestingly enough, the Raiders’ season-low NYLPI rating came one week after they tied for the best mark of the season at 109.6 in a 31-19 home loss to New England.

The Seahawks have not had that kind of success in any game, a trend that continued Sunday with a 31.6 rating, but they pulled off a shocking 36-25 road win over the New York Giants. Tarvaris Jackson(notes), who eventually left the game with a strained pectoral muscle, and backup Charlie Whitehurst(notes) were sacked a combined six times and knocked down nine.

Though Drew Brees(notes) was sacked twice and hurried four times, his offensive line committed just two false start penalties as New Orleans recorded a 93.3 rating in a 30-27 win at Carolina on Sunday. The third-best mark of the week helped propel the Saints to the top spot of the NYLPI season rankings at 85.9.

[flippy]

Re: Can we please be honest about the Oline?

Remember how our Oline crumbled the year after Wayne Gandy left. LT is the anchor for the line. Starks is back, so we're gonna be alright.

I say keep Legursky next to him and things will be alright.

[hawaiiansteel]

Re: Can we please be honest about the Oline?

Despite injuries, Steelers offensive line somehow sticks together

Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011
By Andrew Chiappazzi Times Sports Correspondent



Steelers tackle Max Starks shakes hands with fans following the win over against the Jaguars.

PITTSBURGH -- For the past few years, the same question has come up before, during and after the season: What will the Steelers do to shore up their shaky offensive line?

The answer has always been the same. Grab some duct tape, some bailing wire, a couple sandbags and slap together a unit that keeps Ben Roethlisberger relatively clean and paves the way for Rashard Mendenhall.

Unless Doug Legursky can play with a dislocated toe -- and early indications are that he won't -- next week in Arizona, the Steelers will use their 11th combination on the offensive line in 11 games, including the preseason. That means that since the lockout, the same five guys have not played in the same positions in back-to-back games.
It doesn't seem to faze the Steelers.

"You kind of get used to it," said guard Trai Essex, who replaced Legursky in the second quarter on Sunday. "Unfortunately the past few years, it's been our calling card. We've had success doing it because we've had a couple of good coaches."

The laundry list of injuries on the line is mind-boggling. Willie Colon is on injured-reserve, which forced the Steelers to re-sign Max Starks, who started with just a week of practice. Legursky is now out, as are Chris Kemoeatu with a knee injury and Marcus Gilbert with a shoulder injury. With Legursky out, the Steelers could turn to Chris Scott, currently on the practice squad.

"Injuries happen. Hopefully we'll get into a period of time where we don't have any at all and every other team starts to get them," center Maurkice Pouncey said. "I don't think it's that difficult. We have good chemistry on the offensive line. When guys get in there, they have to play to the level that that guy played at or better."

The good news for the Steelers is they've been down this road frequently in the past few years. Veterans like Essex, Starks and Ramon Foster have played all over the line -- Essex's versatility and experience are the main reasons he's on the roster.

"He's played every position on the football field on offense, including tight end, so having an experienced guy in there definitely does make it easier," Starks said.

"It sucks for the guys who go down but it gives the guys who are waiting an opportunity to go in and show what they've got," Essex said. "In the meantime, we still have to go out there to perform. There's still a standard to be upheld on the offensive line."

That standard is the lifeblood of the Steelers' line. The veterans have ingrained the concept into younger players like Pouncey and Gilbert, and getting them experience and prepared to play at a moment's notice has been vital components to the Steelers' keeping their heads.

"Nobody is a backup. Everybody is a starter in waiting," Starks said. "When the opportunity rises, the standard is the standard and guys have to step in and make sure they maintain the same level as the guy in front of them."

[url="http://www.timesonline.com/sports/local_sports/despite-injuries-steelers-offensive-line-somehow-sticks-together/article_0844f56a-d9c6-5045-97d6-11d68b31f046.html"]http://www.timesonline.com/sports/local ... 1f046.html[/url]