Stop trying to defend Woodley

[Slapstick]

Re: Stop trying to defend Woodley

If we ever do move to a 4-3 ..... and after the way this year is unfolding along with the age of our KEY 3-4 components and the way we have drafted over the past few years it may actually come to fruition....I wonder how Wood would perform as a pass rushing DE in the 4-3.

I've always said Woodley would be a better 4-3 DE than a 3-4 OLB. Put him at DE and pin his ears back going after the QB and not worrying about dropping into coverage...he would be great.

He is about Freeney's size, so he isn't too small...

He's make a good "Leo" or "Elephant" DE...a guy who would go after the QB on most plays but have the ability to drop into coverage in a zone blitz...

[Dee Dub]

Re: Stop trying to defend Woodley

Here I am.

I could careless what this article has to say. I counted every pass attempt the Texans made on Sunday. It was 23. Woodley rushed on 11 of those. That mans less than half the time he came after the Qb. Now I am not arguing about whether he is being blocked by TE's or O-lineman. That's never been my argument. I am stating a fact. Woodley and Harrison are being asked to drop into coverage more than they are being asked to rush the QB. A pass rusher, like a RB, needs reps. It's about getting into a rhythm. It is obvious that Woodley's strength is getting after the QB. Same with Harrison. But as I have said over and over and over...LeBeau has changed. He is not bringing the pressure he use to. As a result this team has only 7 sacks (5 in one game), and only 1 turnover. They are not getting pressure on the QB and there is a reason for it.

I will say this, every year LaMarr Woodley has gotten off to a slow start. I am willing to be by seasons end he has over 10 sacks a pick or two and makes about 60 tackles. To me that's pretty good. I'll take it.

Now....does anyone know why LeBeau is doing this?

I'll give you a hint....Ryan Clark and Troy Polamalu.

[Prowler]

Re: Stop trying to defend Woodley

In my mind, Woodley is a below average 3-4 OLB. The stats prove my point. An OLB in a 3-4 defense should always have lots of tackles. Look at James Harrison for example, lots of tackles and qb pressures every season. Woodley has produced nothing this season, low tackle totals and no pressure.

Some posters suggest that Woodley has had no sacks because he's been in coverage most of the time. If this is correct than Woodley should have more tackles but he does not and he never will due to his poor support against the run. He loses contain almost every time and can't get off the blocks, tackles poorly and is clumsy and slow at the point of attack.

[SteelTorch]

Re: Stop trying to defend Woodley

Yeah, I'll be that guy. Woodley's play has not been great or even good. But I also believe a lot of this is due to the state of our front seven.

Woodley has had the luxury of playing with a very good D-line and a monster in James Harrison. But look at what has happened this season: our line has been getting gashed left and right. They can't get penetration. James Harrison has been playing without being fully healthy. Obviously if everyone else is getting manhandled so much, Woodley's play is going to drop off as well.

I know that doesn't excuse everything, but I don't believe his career with the Steelers is over. He's been a dominant force for many years. I have a VERY hard time believing that any player is going to suddenly suck within the span of a season for no reason.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Stop trying to defend Woodley

In my mind, Woodley is a below average 3-4 OLB. The stats prove my point. An OLB in a 3-4 defense should always have lots of tackles. Look at James Harrison for example, lots of tackles and qb pressures every season. Woodley has produced nothing this season, low tackle totals and no pressure.

Some posters suggest that Woodley has had no sacks because he's been in coverage most of the time. If this is correct than Woodley should have more tackles but he does not and he never will due to his poor support against the run. He loses contain almost every time and can't get off the blocks, tackles poorly and is clumsy and slow at the point of attack.

Prowler you are usually a better poster and more knowledgable than this. First of all to compare the LOLB to ROLB in a 3-4 and how both should have a lot of tackles is totally ignoring the fact that it is the LOLB who generally has a tackle and a TE lined up to his side.

And Prowler it is also ignoring the fact that the Steeler LOLB in LeBeau's system has generally had less tackles over the years than the ROLB. Here, let me show you...

Kevin Greene 3 years as a Steeler
67 tackles 12.5 sacks
53 tackles 14.00 sacks
34 tackles 9.0 sacks

Jason Gildon first 3 years as a starter
42 tackles 5 sacks
42 tackles 11 sacks
58 tackles 8.5 sacks

Clark Haggans first 3 years as a starter
42 tackles 9 sacks
53 tackles 6 sacks
36 tackles 4 sacks

LaMarr Woodley first 3 years as a starter
41 tackles 11.5 sacks
51 tackles 13.5 sacks
35 tackles 10.0 sacks

LaMarr Woodley compares very favorably to Kevin Greene. You surely dont think Kevin Greene was a bad LOLB in LeBeau's 3-4 do you?

Again, if and when LaMarr Woodley finishes this year with 50-60 tackles and double digit sacks I for one will be very pleased.

[Jooser]

Re: Stop trying to defend Woodley

In my mind, Woodley is a below average 3-4 OLB. The stats prove my point. An OLB in a 3-4 defense should always have lots of tackles. Look at James Harrison for example, lots of tackles and qb pressures every season. Woodley has produced nothing this season, low tackle totals and no pressure.

Some posters suggest that Woodley has had no sacks because he's been in coverage most of the time. If this is correct than Woodley should have more tackles but he does not and he never will due to his poor support against the run. He loses contain almost every time and can't get off the blocks, tackles poorly and is clumsy and slow at the point of attack.

Prowler you are usually a better poster and more knowledgable than this. First of all to compare the LOLB to ROLB in a 3-4 and how both should have a lot of tackles is totally ignoring the fact that it is the LOLB who generally has a tackle and a TE lined up to his side.

And Prowler it is also ignoring the fact that the Steeler LOLB in LeBeau's system has generally had less tackles over the years than the ROLB. Here, let me show you...

Kevin Greene 3 years as a Steeler
67 tackles 12.5 sacks
53 tackles 14.00 sacks
34 tackles 9.0 sacks

Jason Gildon first 3 years as a starter
42 tackles 5 sacks
42 tackles 11 sacks
58 tackles 8.5 sacks

Clark Haggans first 3 years as a starter
42 tackles 9 sacks
53 tackles 6 sacks
36 tackles 4 sacks

LaMarr Woodley first 3 years as a starter
41 tackles 11.5 sacks
51 tackles 13.5 sacks
35 tackles 10.0 sacks

LaMarr Woodley compares very favorably to Kevin Greene. You surely dont think Kevin Greene was a back LOLB in LeBeau's 3-4 do you?

Again, if and when LaMarr Woodley finishes this year with 50-60 tackles and double digit sacks I for one will be very pleased.

Nice.

[Slapstick]

Re: Stop trying to defend Woodley

I will take it a bit further and say that Joey Porter only topped 65 tackles one time in his career...

Joey also topped 10.5 sacks only once in his career...and that was with the Dolphins...

[Pahn711]

Re: Stop trying to defend Woodley

But as I have said over and over and over...LeBeau has changed. He is not bringing the pressure he use to. As a result this team has only 7 sacks (5 in one game), and only 1 turnover. They are not getting pressure on the QB and there is a reason for it.

Now....does anyone know why LeBeau is doing this?

I'll give you a hint....Ryan Clark and Troy Polamalu.

I recall various points made by both the media and coaches alike since the Patriots game last year and the culmination of the Green Bay Super Bowl victory that those two teams have discovered the blueprint to exploit Lebeau's defense (spread 'em out offense). That in my estimation is a bigger reason.

Now, Polamalu plays a big factor in that as well, since he does not play a typical safety role. But this appears to be about shoring up the pass defense on the level of screens, dump offs, and short passes more than anything else. And in that regard, Woodley does need to do a better job tackling and making plays.

[DukieBoy]

Re: Stop trying to defend Woodley

Woodley's lack of contain on the AF TD run was a critical error in the Houston game. It was a lazy, undisciplined play by Woodley, loping up the field until AF cut it back to his side, and he was way out of position.

Take it all the way, Lamarr. Maybe with your millions you can buy a Stressless lounge chair for the sideline and a Segue to use on field.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Re: Stop trying to defend Woodley

Woodley's lack of contain on the AF TD run was a critical error in the Houston game. It was a lazy, undisciplined play by Woodley, loping up the field until AF cut it back to his side, and he was way out of position.

Take it all the way, Lamarr. Maybe with your millions you can buy a Stressless lounge chair for the sideline and a Segue to use on field.

Agreed that it was a crippling error, but I don't think that it was a lazy play, instead I think it showed a man who is trying to live up to a huge salary. Woodley followed the QB as if he was going to fake the hand off and roll back to his right. Had he done that then he would have turned around and found himself on the ground very quickly. Then Woodley would have jumped up, done his celebration, and everyone would have said "thats the way to earn those millions!".

Unfortunately, he did that in a game in which the D was being destroyed by Foster and the pass D was holding fine. A bad gamble that probably happened because he was more worried about making a huge splash to justify his deal than because money made him lazy.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Stop trying to defend Woodley

I wasn't a fan of resigning Woodley to big money. Back when this was being discussed I always felt like Woodley was all or nothing. He is like Santonio Holmes. He may show up in the playoffs but you will have 5 to 6 games during the season where he is MIA.

Woodley will probably end up with 10 or 11 sacks but they will come in bunches. Quick question though, isn't Woodley on Aaron Smith's side? If so I think that may have something to do with his lack of production. Smith is getting pancaked and its hard to fill a gap when the DE isn't holding his ground or getting penetration.

To be honest, I wasn't either or Troy either for that matter. I just trusted our FO on these signings. Woodley looks the part but he just doesn't make enough plays for me. For his contract I would expect him to be a shade below Terrell Suggs. I don't see that kind of relentless instensity from him.

Woodley vs. Suggs? Suggs is an animal when he plays us, but how great is he during the other 14 games of the year. Looks at Suggs' career numbers vs. Woodley's career numbers. They both seem to get 50-something or 60-something tackles per year (although Suggs did have one season with 80). They both have 3 seasons with double digit sacks. The main difference is that Suggs had a string of 5 consecutive seasons in the middle of his career in which he did not have double digit sacks, whereas Woodley has had double digit sacks in every season since he has been a starter. Both guys up their games in the playoffs (they have each played in 7 career playoff games...Suggs has 10 sacks in those 7 games, while Woodley has 11 sacks in those 7 games). Seems to me that Woodley and Suggs are quite comparable.

SUGGS

Season Team Tackles Interceptions Fumbles
G GS Comb Total Ast Sck SFTY PDef Int Yds Avg Lng TDs FF
2011 Baltimore Ravens 4 4 15 13 2 4.0 -- 2 1 0 0.0 0 0 2

2010 Baltimore Ravens 16 16 68 53 15 11.0 -- 2 -- -- 0.0 -- -- 2

2009 Baltimore Ravens 13 13 59 44 15 4.5 -- 5 -- -- 0.0 -- -- 1

2008 Baltimore Ravens 16 16 68 53 15 8.0 0 9 2 86 43.0 44T 2 2

2007 Baltimore Ravens 16 16 80 52 28 5.0 -- 6 -- -- 0.0 -- -- 1

2006 Baltimore Ravens 16 15 64 46 18 9.5 -- 8 -- -- 0.0 -- -- 3

2005 Baltimore Ravens 16 16 69 46 23 8.0 -- 2 2 38 19.0 38 0 4

2004 Baltimore Ravens 16 16 60 45 15 10.5 -- 1 -- -- 0.0 -- -- 1

2003 Baltimore Ravens 16 1 27 19 8 12.0 -- 2 1 11 11.0 11 0 6

TOTAL 510 371 139 72.5 0 37 6 135 -- 44 2 22

Terrell Suggs Playoffs Game Log
PlayoffsAge is Years-Days · Glossary · SHARESHARE [X] · CSV · PRE · LINK · More Tools
Sacks & Tackles
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Sk Tkl Ast
1 2008 17 2009-01-04 26-085 BAL @ MIA W 27-9 1.0 4 0
2 2008 18 2009-01-10 26-091 BAL @ TEN W 13-10 1.0 4 1
3 2008 19 2009-01-18 26-099 BAL @ PIT L 14-23 2.0 2 0
Sacks & Tackles
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Sk Tkl Ast
4 2009 17 2010-01-10 27-091 BAL @ NWE W 33-14 1.0 2 1
5 2009 18 2010-01-16 27-097 BAL @ IND L 3-20 0.0 5 2
Sacks & Tackles
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Sk Tkl Ast
6 2010 17 2011-01-09 28-090 BAL @ KAN W 30-7 2.0 4 0
7 2010 18 2011-01-15 28-096 BAL @ PIT L 24-31 3.0 5 1
7 Games 10.0 26 5



WOODLEY

Season Team Tackles Interceptions Fumbles
G GS Comb Total Ast Sck SFTY PDef Int Yds Avg Lng TDs FF
2011 Pittsburgh Steelers 4 4 16 11 5 1.5 -- 1 -- -- 0.0 -- -- 0

2010 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 50 35 15 10.0 0 5 2 22 11.0 14T 1 3

2009 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 62 50 12 13.5 0 5 -- -- 0.0 -- -- 1

2008 Pittsburgh Steelers 15 15 60 41 19 11.5 0 2 1 6 6.0 6 0 2

2007 Pittsburgh Steelers 13 0 14 14 0 4.0 -- 0 -- -- 0.0 -- -- 1

TOTAL 202 151 51 40.5 0 13 3 28 -- 14 1 7

LaMarr Woodley Playoffs Game Log
PlayoffsAge is Years-Days · Glossary · SHARESHARE [X] · CSV · PRE · LINK · More Tools
Sacks & Tackles
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Sk Tkl Ast
1 2007 17 2008-01-05 23-063 PIT JAX L 29-31 2.0 0 0
Sacks & Tackles
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Sk Tkl Ast
2 2008 17 2009-01-11 24-069 PIT SDG W 35-24 2.0 4 1
3 2008 18 2009-01-18 24-076 PIT BAL W 23-14 2.0 5 2
4 2008 19 2009-02-01 24-090 PIT N ARI W 27-23 2.0 3 1
Sacks & Tackles
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Sk Tkl Ast
5 2010 17 2011-01-15 26-073 PIT BAL W 31-24 1.0 1 2
6 2010 18 2011-01-23 26-081 PIT NYJ W 24-19 1.0 3 1
7 2010 19 2011-02-06 26-095 PIT N GNB L 25-31 1.0 3 0
7 Games 11.0 19 7

[williar]

Re: Stop trying to defend Woodley

I wasn't a fan of resigning Woodley to big money. Back when this was being discussed I always felt like Woodley was all or nothing. He is like Santonio Holmes. He may show up in the playoffs but you will have 5 to 6 games during the season where he is MIA.

Woodley will probably end up with 10 or 11 sacks but they will come in bunches. Quick question though, isn't Woodley on Aaron Smith's side? If so I think that may have something to do with his lack of production. Smith is getting pancaked and its hard to fill a gap when the DE isn't holding his ground or getting penetration.

To be honest, I wasn't either or Troy either for that matter. I just trusted our FO on these signings. Woodley looks the part but he just doesn't make enough plays for me. For his contract I would expect him to be a shade below Terrell Suggs. I don't see that kind of relentless instensity from him.

Woodley vs. Suggs? Suggs is an animal when he plays us, but how great is he during the other 14 games of the year. Looks at Suggs' career numbers vs. Woodley's career numbers. They both seem to get 50-something or 60-something tackles per year (although Suggs did have one season with 80). They both have 3 seasons with double digit sacks. The main difference is that Suggs had a string of 5 consecutive seasons in the middle of his career in which he did not have double digit sacks, whereas Woodley has had double digit sacks in every season since he has been a starter. Both guys up their games in the playoffs (they have each played in 7 career playoff games...Suggs has 10 sacks in those 7 games, while Woodley has 11 sacks in those 7 games). Seems to me that Woodley and Suggs are quite comparable.

SUGGS

Season Team Tackles Interceptions Fumbles
G GS Comb Total Ast Sck SFTY PDef Int Yds Avg Lng TDs FF
2011 Baltimore Ravens 4 4 15 13 2 4.0 -- 2 1 0 0.0 0 0 2

2010 Baltimore Ravens 16 16 68 53 15 11.0 -- 2 -- -- 0.0 -- -- 2

2009 Baltimore Ravens 13 13 59 44 15 4.5 -- 5 -- -- 0.0 -- -- 1

2008 Baltimore Ravens 16 16 68 53 15 8.0 0 9 2 86 43.0 44T 2 2

2007 Baltimore Ravens 16 16 80 52 28 5.0 -- 6 -- -- 0.0 -- -- 1

2006 Baltimore Ravens 16 15 64 46 18 9.5 -- 8 -- -- 0.0 -- -- 3

2005 Baltimore Ravens 16 16 69 46 23 8.0 -- 2 2 38 19.0 38 0 4

2004 Baltimore Ravens 16 16 60 45 15 10.5 -- 1 -- -- 0.0 -- -- 1

2003 Baltimore Ravens 16 1 27 19 8 12.0 -- 2 1 11 11.0 11 0 6

TOTAL 510 371 139 72.5 0 37 6 135 -- 44 2 22

Terrell Suggs Playoffs Game Log
PlayoffsAge is Years-Days · Glossary · SHARESHARE [X] · CSV · PRE · LINK · More Tools
Sacks & Tackles
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Sk Tkl Ast
1 2008 17 2009-01-04 26-085 BAL @ MIA W 27-9 1.0 4 0
2 2008 18 2009-01-10 26-091 BAL @ TEN W 13-10 1.0 4 1
3 2008 19 2009-01-18 26-099 BAL @ PIT L 14-23 2.0 2 0
Sacks & Tackles
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Sk Tkl Ast
4 2009 17 2010-01-10 27-091 BAL @ NWE W 33-14 1.0 2 1
5 2009 18 2010-01-16 27-097 BAL @ IND L 3-20 0.0 5 2
Sacks & Tackles
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Sk Tkl Ast
6 2010 17 2011-01-09 28-090 BAL @ KAN W 30-7 2.0 4 0
7 2010 18 2011-01-15 28-096 BAL @ PIT L 24-31 3.0 5 1
7 Games 10.0 26 5



WOODLEY

Season Team Tackles Interceptions Fumbles
G GS Comb Total Ast Sck SFTY PDef Int Yds Avg Lng TDs FF
2011 Pittsburgh Steelers 4 4 16 11 5 1.5 -- 1 -- -- 0.0 -- -- 0

2010 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 50 35 15 10.0 0 5 2 22 11.0 14T 1 3

2009 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 62 50 12 13.5 0 5 -- -- 0.0 -- -- 1

2008 Pittsburgh Steelers 15 15 60 41 19 11.5 0 2 1 6 6.0 6 0 2

2007 Pittsburgh Steelers 13 0 14 14 0 4.0 -- 0 -- -- 0.0 -- -- 1

TOTAL 202 151 51 40.5 0 13 3 28 -- 14 1 7

LaMarr Woodley Playoffs Game Log
PlayoffsAge is Years-Days · Glossary · SHARESHARE [X] · CSV · PRE · LINK · More Tools
Sacks & Tackles
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Sk Tkl Ast
1 2007 17 2008-01-05 23-063 PIT JAX L 29-31 2.0 0 0
Sacks & Tackles
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Sk Tkl Ast
2 2008 17 2009-01-11 24-069 PIT SDG W 35-24 2.0 4 1
3 2008 18 2009-01-18 24-076 PIT BAL W 23-14 2.0 5 2
4 2008 19 2009-02-01 24-090 PIT N ARI W 27-23 2.0 3 1
Sacks & Tackles
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result Sk Tkl Ast
5 2010 17 2011-01-15 26-073 PIT BAL W 31-24 1.0 1 2
6 2010 18 2011-01-23 26-081 PIT NYJ W 24-19 1.0 3 1
7 2010 19 2011-02-06 26-095 PIT N GNB L 25-31 1.0 3 0
7 Games 11.0 19 7

Man! I have to laugh at these stat mongers. Stats sure do look good on paper but I just go by what I see on the field.

Suggs can be dominant. When he wants to takeover a game he will takeover that game. He's a beast! And If I had my choice between the two right now, I'm taking Suggs everyday of the week.

[Prowler]

Re: Stop trying to defend Woodley

In my mind, Woodley is a below average 3-4 OLB. The stats prove my point. An OLB in a 3-4 defense should always have lots of tackles. Look at James Harrison for example, lots of tackles and qb pressures every season. Woodley has produced nothing this season, low tackle totals and no pressure.

Some posters suggest that Woodley has had no sacks because he's been in coverage most of the time. If this is correct than Woodley should have more tackles but he does not and he never will due to his poor support against the run. He loses contain almost every time and can't get off the blocks, tackles poorly and is clumsy and slow at the point of attack.

Prowler you are usually a better poster and more knowledgable than this. First of all to compare the LOLB to ROLB in a 3-4 and how both should have a lot of tackles is totally ignoring the fact that it is the LOLB who generally has a tackle and a TE lined up to his side.

And Prowler it is also ignoring the fact that the Steeler LOLB in LeBeau's system has generally had less tackles over the years than the ROLB. Here, let me show you...

Kevin Greene 3 years as a Steeler
67 tackles 12.5 sacks
53 tackles 14.00 sacks
34 tackles 9.0 sacks

Jason Gildon first 3 years as a starter
42 tackles 5 sacks
42 tackles 11 sacks
58 tackles 8.5 sacks

Clark Haggans first 3 years as a starter
42 tackles 9 sacks
53 tackles 6 sacks
36 tackles 4 sacks

LaMarr Woodley first 3 years as a starter
41 tackles 11.5 sacks
51 tackles 13.5 sacks
35 tackles 10.0 sacks

LaMarr Woodley compares very favorably to Kevin Greene. You surely dont think Kevin Greene was a bad LOLB in LeBeau's 3-4 do you?

Again, if and when LaMarr Woodley finishes this year with 50-60 tackles and double digit sacks I for one will be very pleased.

Good find Dee Dub!! You got me this time. It just goes to show how little I know about football. All the best and god bless you, Dee Dub!!

[SteelTorch]

Re: Stop trying to defend Woodley

Man! I have to laugh at these stat mongers. Stats sure do look good on paper but I just go by what I see on the field.

Suggs can be dominant. When he wants to takeover a game he will takeover that game. He's a beast! And If I had my choice between the two right now, I'm taking Suggs everyday of the week.

I have to laugh at people who won't accept facts even when they're shoved in your face.