Mike Wallace's goal this season: 2000 receiving yards

[flippy]

Re: Mike Wallace's goal this season: 2000 receiving yards

I'm with the Captain on this one. Wallace has promise, but he's no Santonio.

Santonio scored a TD in every playoff game he's ever played for us.

Wallace is 1 for 3.

Santonio averages 16+ YPC in the playoffs

Wallace has 8+ YPC in the playoffs.

Santonio came up big in the playoffs and made plays when we need them.

Wallace wasn't open on the final drive in the SuperBowl we just lost.

Santonio is a terrific route runner.

Wallace runs 5 routes and needs to improve on those routes according to some.

One of these guys speaks of lofty goals that would make him the greatest WR ever.

The other one has proven he's one of the best and has the SB MVP trophy to show for it.


Bottom line, we all want Mike to be great. But the 2000 yard garbage comes off diva like. And we can say that we don't need Santonio cause he's a pot head, but he did nothing but work hard for us on the field.

In fact, I bet every Steeler player wishes we had him on that last SuperBowl drive. We all know someone would have been open if Santonio was on the field.

Mike's got a long way to go. Especially in the post season.

[Wallace108]

Re: Mike Wallace's goal this season: 2000 receiving yards

Flippy, I get what you and Captain are saying ... but I still disagree.
You can't always go by stats and end results. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl ring as a QB, while Dan Marino never won one. Can we say that Dilfer was a better QB than Marino?

If we want to compare Wallace to Holmes, what real difference is there other than the final drives in their respective Super Bowls? But is that a fair comparison as to who's the better receiver?

1. The Packers had a much better defense than the Cardinals.
2. Holmes had Whisenhunt calling plays, while Wallace had Arians.
3. In the final drive in the SB against the Packers, Randle El lined up on the wrong side on third down, confusing the other receivers, including Wallace, who threw his hands up in the air in confusion. That situation didn't happen with Holmes against the Cardinals.

Basically, there are other factors that have to be considered other than just judging Wallace and Holmes on stats.

Believe me ... I'm not overestimating Wallace. I'm not sure if he's even the best receiver on the team right now. But I think he's every bit as good as Holmes was/is.

[flippy]

Re: Mike Wallace's goal this season: 2000 receiving yards

I'm not just looking at 1 drive. I'm looking at their body of work in the playoffs.

Holmes so far is clutch in the playoffs. Mike hasn't been.

Mike has shown an incredible ability to get open deep. And he's only 2 years in, so I expect him to only get better from here. But he's just not yet the all around receiver that Holmes is - especially on the big stage come playoff time. But he's young. And there's a reason the team gets on him for being a 1 trick pony. They need him to get better. When adds more routes and becomes a better route runner, there's no reason to think he won't improve.

His goals are a little misdirected given his playoff performance to date. And like Captain says, 2000 yds for Wallace + 3000 between Brown, Sanders, and Miller is nutso. Hines and Cotchery are good for at least 800 yds each, add in Mendy and Moore, and the backup TEs and Ben's gonna have to get to 7000+ yards.

Which WR of ours smokes weed?

[Captain Lemming]

Re: Mike Wallace's goal this season: 2000 receiving yards

I'm not just looking at 1 drive. I'm looking at their body of work in the playoffs.

Holmes so far is clutch in the playoffs. Mike hasn't been.

Mike has shown an incredible ability to get open deep. And he's only 2 years in, so I expect him to only get better from here. But he's just not yet the all around receiver that Holmes is - especially on the big stage come playoff time. But he's young. And there's a reason the team gets on him for being a 1 trick pony. They need him to get better. When adds more routes and becomes a better route runner, there's no reason to think he won't improve.

His goals are a little misdirected given his playoff performance to date. And like Captain says, 2000 yds for Wallace + 3000 between Brown, Sanders, and Miller is nutso. Hines and Cotchery are good for at least 800 yds each, add in Mendy and Moore, and the backup TEs and Ben's gonna have to get to 7000+ yards.

Which WR of ours smokes weed?

Money Flip.

W108, we got to the SB fine last season. 2000 yards wont bring us another ring. Wallace becoming a beast in the playoffs is what we need from him.

Here is an example:

Randy Moss had his best season as a Patriot 2005. Dude has twenty three TDs that year, ridiculous. AMAZING, in the regular season.

That season in the playoffs, Moss had 7 catches for 94 yards and a single touchdown. That is the ENTIRE PLAYOFFS. Lost the SB.

Holmes had NINE CATCHES for 131 and a TD in the SB alone.

We dont need amazing athlete blazing speed "regular season beast, playoff mouse" Moss play from Wallace.

[Captain Lemming]

Re: Mike Wallace's goal this season: 2000 receiving yards

Flippy, I get what you and Captain are saying ... but I still disagree.
You can't always go by stats and end results. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl ring as a QB, while Dan Marino never won one. Can we say that Dilfer was a better QB than Marino?

Dilfer was not SB MVP.

If we want to compare Wallace to Holmes, what real difference is there other than the final drives in their respective Super Bowls? But is that a fair comparison as to who's the better receiver?

That is the difference between winning and losing the SB. THAT is my point.

1. The Packers had a much better defense than the Cardinals.

Granted

2. Holmes had Whisenhunt calling plays, while Wallace had Arians.

Whis did coach in that SB true, you got me there....wait...he coached .FOR THE CARDS.
What you are saying is that Holmes had an MVP SB.....despite idiot Arians as coach...You make my point.

3. In the final drive in the SB against the Packers, Randle El lined up on the wrong side on third down, confusing the other receivers, including Wallace, who threw his hands up in the air in confusion. That situation didn't happen with Holmes against the Cardinals.

Excuse for ONE is FOUR opportunities.

Hows this. 1st and 10 at PIT 22. First play Kemo holds and it is first and 20 at the 12. I say THAT mistake hurt worse. How do you fix that?

B.Roethlisberger pass short right to S.Holmes to PIT 26 for 14 yards
B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep right to N.Washington
B.Roethlisberger pass short right to S.Holmes to PIT 39 for 13 yards

Basically, there are other factors that have to be considered other than just judging Wallace and Holmes on stats.

Agreed. By NUMBERS in the regular season you are absolutely right about Wallace NOW.

It is WHEN you perform, not just raw numbers. Don't want numbers I want clutch.

I am old enough to remember Lynn Swann. His regular season numbers were nothing special. Right now Wallace is like Cliff Branch. Insane speed, bigger numbers than our guys, but come playoff time Swann and Stallworth performed DESPITE less raw talent.

I want Wallace to grow, I really do. I want him to succeed. A goal of 2000 yards is not what he needs. I dont care if he get 250 yards and 3 TDs in a regular season crushing of the Bengals (well that would be kinda cool....its always fun crushing the Bengals ).

But he needs to be the go to guy when we have a chance in the SB.

[Wallace108]

Re: Mike Wallace's goal this season: 2000 receiving yards

OK, I plead temporary insanity when I suggested Whisenhunt was our OC in Super Bowl 43. Actually, I blame the beer.

Holmes had NINE CATCHES for 131 and a TD in the SB alone.

Correct. But most of those numbers came on the final drive, when the Cards were playing a soft D. The reason Holmes got the MVP was because of the final catch. Had any other receiver caught that pass, Ben would have been MVP. Other than the final catch, Holmes didn't do anything spectacular on the final drive. He found openings in a soft D, the line gave Ben time, and Ben found him. The O-Line, which had been crappy all season, deserves more credit for that final drive than Holmes does.

I don't think it's fair to compare the postseason success of Holmes and Wallace. Last season was Wallace's second year in the league, and first as a starter. How much did Holmes contribute to our playoff success his first two years in the league?

So there's no confusion, let me state/restate a few points:
1. After 2 years in the league, do I think Wallace is as good as Holmes was when the Steelers traded him? No. But I think he's pretty close. And after his second year, Wallace is much better than Holmes was after his second year.
2. No way in hell do I think Wallace is going to get anywhere near 2,000 yards this season. But I love his confidence. Last season, he made a few comments that came across as cocky ... but I think he backed them up on the field. As I stated in my original post, I'm OK with his confidence and cockiness, just as long as he doesn't become an egomaniac.
3. I respect your guys' opinions, and I love a good debate.

[Captain Lemming]

Re: Mike Wallace's goal this season: 2000 receiving yards

Think back over Santonio's career with the Steelers. How many games can you remember him coming up big in? I can remember three, including the Super Bowl against the Cardinals.

I watched Swann and Stallworth. I dont "remember" many regular season games.

Obviously, the Super Bowl was his biggest game. But he was nonexistent until the final drive.

If a bomb had blown up the stadium before our last drive, Santonio would have died our leading receiver in the SB.

Santonio had over half of Ben's total yards that day.

And let's be honest ... it wasn't a top-notch defense they were going up against ... it was the Cardinals. And on the final drive, they were playing essentially a prevent defense. There was a lot of stuff open underneath and in the middle of the field, which the Steelers took advantage of.

But a "prevent" will KILL Wallace's game, which is the problem in these situations.

That doesn't exactly make Holmes the second coming of Jerry Rice.

True but Santonio holds the single superbowl yardage record for the Steelers.

That is rare air considering that some of the best receiving games in SB history were done by Swann and Stallworth. Stop trying to downplay it.

The real credit goes to Ben playing behind that poor excuse for an offensive line. But yeah, Holmes made a miraculous catch to win the game. But he also dropped what would have been the game winner on the previous play. Had Ben not made an unbelievable throw on the final pass, Holmes could have been the goat instead of the hero.

Yes, but Santonio actually BEAT SOMEBODY to the ball five TIMES in that ONE drive. He dropped one pass. Wallace for all his speed could not do that ONCE in the final drive.

[Captain Lemming]

Re: Mike Wallace's goal this season: 2000 receiving yards

Correct. But most of those numbers came on the final drive, when the Cards were playing a soft D. The reason Holmes got the MVP was because of the final catch. Had any other receiver caught that pass, Ben would have been MVP. Other than the final catch, Holmes didn't do anything spectacular on the final drive. He found openings in a soft D, the line gave Ben time, and Ben found him. The O-Line, which had been crappy all season, deserves more credit for that final drive than Holmes does.

Since you credit Ben so much, how good has he been in the SB without Santonio?

Pre Holmes: Statistically worst winning QB in SB history. Horrible. 22.7 QB rating.

Post Holmes against Green Bay only a 77 rating two picks and he could not make a winning TD march. Lost the game.

SB with Holmes: Ben ONLY good SB. Holmes gets over half Ben's total yardage. Santonio gets all but 15 yards on a 78 yard drive drive that was at one point 1st and 20 on the 12.

If Ben were not COMPLETELY depending on Holmes at that point he would have not thrown to him AGAIN after the drop. If ANYBODY ELSE was open it would be an easier throw. Why didnt he go elsewhere.

Bottom line: As much as we praise Ben for being clutch, Ben has been a BAD SB QB without Santonio. We need Wallace or somebody else to be able to fulfill that role in the clutch.

I don't think it's fair to compare the postseason success of Holmes and Wallace. Last season was Wallace's second year in the league, and first as a starter. How much did Holmes contribute to our playoff success his first two years in the league?

THIS I CAN AGREE WITH. I want Wallace to be better. He has the talent. Just don't anoint the dude prematurely, when he DID NOT get it done like Santonio did.

So there's no confusion, let me state/restate a few points:
1. After 2 years in the league, do I think Wallace is as good as Holmes was when the Steelers traded him? No. But I think he's pretty close. And after his second year, Wallace is much better than Holmes was after his second year.

No disagreement here. Wallace has higher upside.

[flippy]

Re: Mike Wallace's goal this season: 2000 receiving yards

OK, I plead temporary insanity when I suggested Whisenhunt was our OC in Super Bowl 43. Actually, I blame the beer.

Holmes had NINE CATCHES for 131 and a TD in the SB alone.

Correct. But most of those numbers came on the final drive, when the Cards were playing a soft D. The reason Holmes got the MVP was because of the final catch. Had any other receiver caught that pass, Ben would have been MVP. Other than the final catch, Holmes didn't do anything spectacular on the final drive. He found openings in a soft D, the line gave Ben time, and Ben found him. The O-Line, which had been crappy all season, deserves more credit for that final drive than Holmes does.

I don't think it's fair to compare the postseason success of Holmes and Wallace. Last season was Wallace's second year in the league, and first as a starter. How much did Holmes contribute to our playoff success his first two years in the league?

So there's no confusion, let me state/restate a few points:
1. After 2 years in the league, do I think Wallace is as good as Holmes was when the Steelers traded him? No. But I think he's pretty close. And after his second year, Wallace is much better than Holmes was after his second year.
2. No way in hell do I think Wallace is going to get anywhere near 2,000 yards this season. But I love his confidence. Last season, he made a few comments that came across as cocky ... but I think he backed them up on the field. As I stated in my original post, I'm OK with his confidence and cockiness, just as long as he doesn't become an egomaniac.
3. I respect your guys' opinions, and I love a good debate.

Wallace is great for his second year and especially considering he was a 3rd round draft choice. And he's gonna get better. Most WRs break out in their 3rd/4th season. And I expect him to start running more routes this season. And then putting the polish on next year.

Really Santonio's got a different skill set as a WR. Wallace is never gonna run routes like Santonio. And Santonio's never gonna blow by guys giving him a 15 yard cushion.

If Mike Wallace can do the things Santonio does well in these next 2 years, we could be talking about this guy as someone that has the potential to be on of the best of all time.

But right now, it's a little premature.

And imho, the play Holmes made in the SuperBowl was the catch that set up the TD pass. That catch and run was the play that made that drive. Without it, the toe tap never happens.

Here's a good way to watch the difference between Holmes and Wallace. Wallace gets separation with his speed. But Santonio turns on his burst when the ball's in the air.

Wallace needs to use his route running to lull DBs to sleep. When he learns to harness his speed rather than just run by guys, that's when the NFL will become his oyster.

[Wallace108]

Re: Mike Wallace's goal this season: 2000 receiving yards

Larry Brown "came up big" in Super Bowl XXX and was named MVP. Does that mean he was a great DB? Or was he just in the right place at the right time and made the plays? As I've said, other than the final catch, Holmes didn't do anything spectacular in the Super Bowl, even on the final drive. He was in the right places at the right time and made the plays. Don't get me wrong ... I'm not saying Holmes sucked. He was a good WR.

Yes, but Santonio actually BEAT SOMEBODY to the ball five TIMES in that ONE drive. He dropped one pass. Wallace for all his speed could not do that ONCE in the final drive.

You can't blame Wallace for the final drive. Let's look at it:

1st Down: Wallace blows by the coverage and was wide open. Under pressure, Ben never looked his way and threw across the middle to Miller for a first down.

1st Down: Ben looks right the entire time and throws a quick out to Ward.
2nd Down: Randle El lines up on the wrong side creating confusion. Wallace throws his hands up in the air thinking he doesn't know the play. Ben throws the ball out of bounds.
3rd Down: Ben throws the ball with no receiver near it.
4th Down: Ben throws to Wallace, and the pass is broken up. Watch the play ... Ben threw it late and high, which allowed the DB to get a hand on it. Ben was looking for Wallace the whole time. Had he thrown it sooner, it would have been completed for a first down.

I'm not sure how any of this was Wallace's fault. And I'm not sure how Holmes would have made any difference if he was on the field in place of Wallace.
------------------------

After typing all this, I went back and rewatched the final drives of both Super Bowls. The Cards actually played more aggressively on defense than I remembered. The one thing I did notice though had nothing to do with the receivers and everything to do with Ben. On the final drive against the Cards, Ben was money with every pass, especially the game-winning pass. Against the Packers, his passes were off. Watch the final drives, and then ask yourself if Holmes would have made a difference against the Packers.

[Wallace108]

Re: Mike Wallace's goal this season: 2000 receiving yards

Really Santonio's got a different skill set as a WR. Wallace is never gonna run routes like Santonio. And Santonio's never gonna blow by guys giving him a 15 yard cushion.

That's a good point, flippy. I don't think there's any question that Wallace needs to work more on his route running. I saw improvement last year over his rookie year, but he needs to get better. I can't wait to see how much he improves this season.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Mike Wallace's goal this season: 2000 receiving yards

Really Santonio's got a different skill set as a WR. Wallace is never gonna run routes like Santonio. And Santonio's never gonna blow by guys giving him a 15 yard cushion.

That's a good point, flippy. I don't think there's any question that Wallace needs to work more on his route running. I saw improvement last year over his rookie year, but he needs to get better. I can't wait to see how much he improves this season.

Manny Sanders and Antonio Brown are the two guys on our roster who could potentially run routes like Santonio. Similar body styles and skill sets.

[hawaiiansteel]

Re: Mike Wallace's goal this season: 2000 receiving yards

Nobody is laughing at Steelers' Wallace now

By Dejan Kovacevic, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Tuesday, September 27, 2011



Steelers speedy wide receiver Mike Wallace set his goal to be a 2,000-yard wide receiver this season, and nobody seemed to grasp that the man was serious.


"Don't you know, I'm a 2000 man, and my kids, they just don't understand me at all."

Those lyrics for the classic "2000 Man," originally conceived by the Rolling Stones, famously covered by Kiss, might as well be pinned above Mike Wallace's stall in the Steelers' locker room.

He set his goal to be a 2,000-yard wide receiver this season.

And nobody seemed to grasp that the man was serious.

"Ha!" Wallace said after his seven catches spurred the 23-20 victory Sunday night over the Indianapolis Colts. "Doesn't seem like a joke anymore, does it?"

Not in the slightest, as one look atop the NFL's receiving charts illustrates: Wallace's 377 yards ranks No. 2 in the league to the 458 of New England's Wes Welker, only Wallace has achieved that in half as many catches (21) as Welker (42). Wallace's 18 yards per catch ranks No. 1. The 21 catches are tied for third. The 18 first-down catches rank No. 2. The five catches of 20-plus yards rank No. 5.

And that 2,000 thing?

He is on pace for a sweetly symmetrical 2,011 yards in the 2011 season.

"You know, this is just the start, man," Wallace said. "We're only three games into the season. Long way to go."

It will be even longer than Wallace's breathtaking 81-yard touchdown catch late in the first quarter, the latest example of why so many inside the game consider him the NFL's best big-play man.

The Colts guarded against that most of the evening with a conservative Cover-2 defense, but there was no script to stop a play like this: Ben Roethlisberger, replicating a throw he and Wallace were practicing on the Lucas Oil Stadium field just an hour before kickoff, planted himself at the Steelers' 12 and heaved a ball high and deep.

Too far, it seemed initially, for Wallace.

If there is such a thing.

As Roethlisberger recalled, Wallace "put it into overdrive" in blowing by Indianapolis safety David Caldwell and linebacker Pat Angerer, then caught the ball at the Indianapolis 35 — that's 43 yards it traveled in the air — before impressively pulling away from the pack to prance into the end zone.

"That's Mike," fellow receiver Hines Ward said. "He blows the top off a defense."

"We just took what they gave us," Wallace said with a shrug.

That's how Wallace answers most questions about big plays these days. But mention a few of the other catches that accounted for his 144 total yards, and he lights up.

"I take a lot of pride in that because I want to be a complete receiver," Wallace said. "That 81-yard touchdown, it was cool, but I'm used to doing that. I want to get some of those 5-yarders and turn those into 81-yarders. That's my goal, to do it all."

Wallace has been doing plenty of that, to the degree he has been Roethlisberger's primary short target. He is coming back to the play when the quarterback scrambles, even running routes across the middle, and he has looked plenty comfortable.

He sounds comfortable, too, with the idea that he belongs among the NFL's elite.

"If I don't have confidence in myself to be that, who will?" Wallace said. "I always have to feel like I'm one of the best, if not the best. Now, I know when I say that, everybody's going to go crazy. But that's just the way I feel. That's the way I have to feel. I have to set those kinds of goals for myself."

His goal of 2,000 yards never has been achieved. The NFL record of 1,848 was set 16 years ago by Jerry Rice.

"We'll see," Wallace said. "That's all I'm saying right now."

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