See You Ike: No Tears Shed When You Leave

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: See You Ike: No Tears Shed When You Leave

Early on, Ike was saying how much he wanted to stay in Pittsburgh, and would take less money to stay in a LeBeau defense and to remain on Dan Rooney's team, since he considers the old man to be a father figure of sorts. I think this was Ike truly talking, but when his agent saw that making this public would cause his ultimate commission to shrink, I think he stepped in and made him talk tougher to get some leverage back. I still think he'll ultimately choose to stay for a reasonably large but not necessarily blockbuster deal. I'm sure Antwaan Randle El, Larry Foote, Bryant McFadden, and Byron Leftwich have told him that the grass isn't always greener on other teams even if they offer more greenbacks.

[feltdizz]

Re: See You Ike: No Tears Shed When You Leave

"Throwing away a championship season" sounds like something Ike's agent would say. We've been to 3 SB's in 6 years... Its a little hard to convince people that next year is a championship season a year after losing the SB.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Re: See You Ike: No Tears Shed When You Leave

For those of you saying that we don't need Ike because he is no good and that we were shredded with him in the lineup then I have a question for you.

How did teams beat our defense last year? Was it not by putting more receivers on the field? Allowing the QB the option of targeting lesser CBs like Gay and Madison?

If Ike is so bad, why would our opponents not just leave in extra blockers and go with only two receivers? Give their QB and linemen extra help blocking the likes of Harrison and Woodley? Two TEs.....A FB..... Isn't the Steelers pass rush a worry for them? They are all going four and five wides to beat us even though they can easily exploit Ike one on one?

Why would they spread us out and expose their QB if Ike is that beatable?

[Chadman]

Re: See You Ike: No Tears Shed When You Leave

McFadden is nowhere near as bad as a lot make him out to be.

Scheme is responsible for many of the Steelers pass defense woes. And even with nearly-elite Ike, we still get passed on easily- yes, even by Joe Flacco.

The importance of Ike has been overblown. He's a good to very good player, but far from irreplacable.

And while we all bemoan possibly losing him in FA- there's nothing stopping the Steelers from grabbing a FA CB of their own.

Chadman, are you saying that McFadden is a better quarterback than D1ck Lebeau is as the defensive coordinator? Not even Ovi believes that.

Pappy

I didn't say anything about McFadden being a better Quarterback....

What I did say was that the scheme the Steelers employ leaves the CB too far from the line of scrimmage, exposing the CB against short routes in particular. Play McFadden etc closer to the WR & let them play more physically. after all- we sign/draft BIG CB's- why not let them use their physicality to bump WR's early, instead of playing them 10 yards away where a WR has time to build up speed, forcing the bigger, less 'mobile' CB's like McFadden to try & turn & keep up.

If you want big & physical- play big & physical. If you are going to play 10 yards away from the WR- get agile, quick CB's.

[Oviedo]

Re: See You Ike: No Tears Shed When You Leave

McFadden is nowhere near as bad as a lot make him out to be.

Scheme is responsible for many of the Steelers pass defense woes. And even with nearly-elite Ike, we still get passed on easily- yes, even by Joe Flacco.

The importance of Ike has been overblown. He's a good to very good player, but far from irreplacable.

And while we all bemoan possibly losing him in FA- there's nothing stopping the Steelers from grabbing a FA CB of their own.

How dare you question the scheme? How dare you suggest that we make adjustments?

I think being upside down on the world has caused too much blood to rush to your head. Just repeat this over and over: Our defense is perfect and needs no adjustment or new ideas.

[Slapstick]

Re: See You Ike: No Tears Shed When You Leave

While I have advocated signing a free agent CB (or two), the fact is that the Steelers have several young CBs...at some point, they need to see if these guys can play...

[feltdizz]

Re: See You Ike: No Tears Shed When You Leave

For those of you saying that we don't need Ike because he is no good and that we were shredded with him in the lineup then I have a question for you.

How did teams beat our defense last year? Was it not by putting more receivers on the field? Allowing the QB the option of targeting lesser CBs like Gay and Madison?

If Ike is so bad, why would our opponents not just leave in extra blockers and go with only two receivers? Give their QB and linemen extra help blocking the likes of Harrison and Woodley? Two TEs.....A FB..... Isn't the Steelers pass rush a worry for them? They are all going four and five wides to beat us even though they can easily exploit Ike one on one?

Why would they spread us out and expose their QB if Ike is that beatable?

Who said Ike sucks? Most people who are OK with Ike leaving think we will have a decline but it won't be enough to justify 8 to 10 mill a year. It's not because Ike sucks... it's business.

Most teams are going 4 wide on us because they can't run on us. It also makes sense to take advantage of the rules that favor a passing attack so expect to see 4 wides from 80% of the NFL because it's harder to defend.

If teams can pass all over us with Ike due to are other DB's why the hell should we pay 8 to 10 for Ike? Spend that money locking up Timmons and Troy and while working these youngsters into the lineup.

[feltdizz]

Re: See You Ike: No Tears Shed When You Leave

While I have advocated signing a free agent CB (or two), the fact is that the Steelers have several young CBs...at some point, they need to see if these guys can play...

I think we are at that point.... Ike wants what we aren't willing to give him.

Market value.

If the market turns on Ike he may resign at a decent price.

[aggiebones]

Re: See You Ike: No Tears Shed When You Leave

This is always difficult for me.

I've liked Ike. Ike was a very good Steeler and teammate. He helped us(Steelers) and we helped him. But when negotiations come, we have to do the unfortunate thing and put a price tag on him. Yes, we give some value to chemistry and team and stuff, but mostly remaining skill. Players get frustrated and ALWAYS feel undervalued. Ownership lets the players grumble and deal with the agent. Usually they get over this if resigned. Or they leave, but it makes the players look bad. Most of the time, they just don't feel appreciated or loved. Its a common emotion. I'll give him a pass since he was a good Steeler til this point, even if he leaves. As long as after he leaves, he doesn't rain down on Pittsburgh with a bunch of new tripe.

As to whether we need him? I'd say I think we do. Its better to find someone to play across from him before replacing him. Replacing him with a mediocre other corner and we are in trouble. How about a tandem or Gay and McFadden? yikes

[Oviedo]

Re: See You Ike: No Tears Shed When You Leave

Replacing him with a mediocre other corner and we are in trouble. How about a tandem or Gay and McFadden? yikes

Exactly my concern because we know we are not going to chabge the scheme from "keep them in front of you." The problem I have is with the way we use Troy near the LOS there may be alot more of them "behind us" not "in front of us."

Ike made other teams focus on one side of the field...not his! Another CB like Bmac opens up the entire field to the opposing play callers and the result will not be good.

[pittpete]

Re: See You Ike: No Tears Shed When You Leave

Who said Ike sucks? Most people who are OK with Ike leaving think we will have a decline but it won't be enough to justify 8 to 10 mill a year. It's not because Ike sucks... it's business.

Most teams are going 4 wide on us because they can't run on us. It also makes sense to take advantage of the rules that favor a passing attack so expect to see 4 wides from 80% of the NFL because it's harder to defend.

If teams can pass all over us with Ike due to are other DB's why the hell should we pay 8 to 10 for Ike? Spend that money locking up Timmons and Troy and while working these youngsters into the lineup.

Definitely time to see if the young guys can play.
With all the vets on this team they should be able to help get the noobs in position before the snap.

[Oviedo]

Re: See You Ike: No Tears Shed When You Leave

Who said Ike sucks? Most people who are OK with Ike leaving think we will have a decline but it won't be enough to justify 8 to 10 mill a year. It's not because Ike sucks... it's business.

Most teams are going 4 wide on us because they can't run on us. It also makes sense to take advantage of the rules that favor a passing attack so expect to see 4 wides from 80% of the NFL because it's harder to defend.

If teams can pass all over us with Ike due to are other DB's why the hell should we pay 8 to 10 for Ike? Spend that money locking up Timmons and Troy and while working these youngsters into the lineup.

Definitely time to see if the young guys can play.
With all the vets on this team they should be able to help get the noobs in position before the snap.

Legend LeBeau is our DC, not Dom Capers! Won't happen until they get their Masters Degree in Defense de LeBeau. That is usually a two year course of study.

[hawaiiansteel]

Re: See You Ike: No Tears Shed When You Leave

Re-signing Ike Taylor Also Carries Some Significant Risk

Posted on June 27, 2011 by adam


It’s been pretty well documented that once free agency begins the Steelers top priority will be to sign cornerback Ike Taylor to a contract extension before somebody else can give him a blank check on the open market, where he will be one of the top players available at the position (John Harris would like you to incorrectly believe he’s better than Nnamdi Asomugha). The cornerback situation around here isn’t exactly a secret, and it’s pretty much agreed that the Steelers could use Taylor (or a comparable player in free agency) in their 2011 lineup given the makeup of the position, which currently consists of rookies, unproven/inconsistent young guys and players that just aren’t starting quality at this point.

Pittsburgh didn’t address the position until the third and fourth round of this year’s draft, selecting Texas cornerback Curtis Brown and Cortez Allen out of the Citadel. They’ll be joining veteran Bryant McFadden, as well as previous draft picks Keenan Lewis and Crezdon Butler as players under contract for 2011 (remember, William Gay is also a free agent). Needless to say, there’s not exactly a Darrelle Revis in that group, even if I would like to think (or hope) that at least one or two of the young guys can become useful players in the near future. All of this has helped make re-signing Taylor the focal point of the offseason.

We know what talent remains if he leaves, and we know any replacement in free agency is going to be just as expensive, if not more expensive than Taylor. But is there a significant risk in giving him big money when the offseason officially starts?

A couple of weeks ago I posted about the Steelers willingness to let players leave a year too early as opposed to a year too late, comparing it to the Yankees and how they’re on the hook for Derek Jeter’s absurd contract even though he’s pretty much useless as a Major League shortstop at this point. Taylor is going to be 31 years old this season at a position that is dominated by youth. Obviously, there are positions in the NFL that have shorter shelf lives than others. Example: Running backs will burn out faster than almost any other position on the field, while defensive linemen can be productive players well into their 30?s.

I was browsing around the Football Outsiders player pages on Monday and took a lengthy look at Taylor’s, and the one part that stood out to me — and concerned me — was his 2010 similarity score which paired him with a rather infamous part of recent Steelers history: DeWayne Washington’s 2002 season. Also of note: his 2008-10 similarity was Jeff Burris between 2000-02.

Both players, Washington and Burris, began to wash out of the NFL within the next season. In 2003, when Washington was 31 (the same age Taylor will be in 2011), he had lost his starting job to Deshea Townsend, wasn’t a member of the Steelers in 2004 and was out of the NFL by 2005. Burris never played in the NFL past the age of 31.

None of this means Taylor’s production and ability will fall off a cliff next season, or that his career will mirror that of Washington or Burris. They’re just comparisons. Admittedly, somewhat concerning comparisons. Also concerning is what I alluded to earlier — cornerback is a position dominated by youth.

Let’s use 2010 as an example. Across the NFL there were 74 cornerbacks that started at least six games during the regular season, and here’s how they broke down by age:

20: 0
21: 1
22: 5
23: 7
24: 10
25: 8
26: 7
27: 9
28: 7
29: 6
30: 5
31: 3
32: 3
33: 1
34: 1
35: 1

Of the 74 players that started at least six games only nine of them were 31 or older, the group that Taylor will fall into in 2011. The list: Sheldon Brown (31), Quinten Jammer (31), Nate Clements (31), Champ Bailey (32), Andre Goodman (32), Terrance Newman (32), Antoine Winfield (33), Charles Woodson (34), Ronde Barber (35).

Obviously, as Woodson, Bailey and Barber have shown you can be a productive cornerback well into your 30?s. But those guys also appear to be the exception. I’ll also point out that even though they’re still very good players, they’re not quite as good as they were in their primes, and Ike Taylor, in his prime, was never as good as Charles Woodson or Champ Bailey.

I think I’d still like to see Taylor in a Steelers uniform in 2011, but I don’t think it’s as simple as sign Taylor or bust. It’s very reasonable to question how good he’ll be a year or two from now, what sort of contract and guaranteed money he’ll be carrying at that point and whether or not he’ll be worth it.

[url="http://www.steelerslounge.com/2011/06/ikecorners/"]http://www.steelerslounge.com/2011/06/ikecorners/[/url]

[birtikidis]

Re: See You Ike: No Tears Shed When You Leave

Well if Dom Capers had a team in t super bowl every few years i could see your argument. Lebeau does though, so you lost me.

[steelz09]

Re: See You Ike: No Tears Shed When You Leave

If Ike wants to go, the Steelers should let him get his big payday.

He is 31 and the Steelers make very few exceptions on paying players of that age, huge money. Especially considering that one of his best attributes in his speed and lets face it... speed is slowed by age.