Best Rookie QB ever, Big Ben or Bradford?

[Irongut]

Re: Best Rookie QB ever, Big Ben or Bradford?

Cowher won a lot early with players from Noll's last few teams. When those players began leaving so did the constant participation in the playoffs.

Thank God Dan Rooney vetoed Cowher's wish to draft Shawn Andrews when the Texans were on the clock and forever changed the fortunes of this franchise.

If Cowher got his wish, we'd be the Cleveland Browns right now.

Cowher made the playoffs over a decade and a half 2/3rds of the time. Yep, it was all Noll's players.

PS, Noll was 7-9 the year before Cowher and .500 with Noll players the two years before Cowher took over, went 11-5 and to the playoffs but don't let facts get in your way.

[Crash]

Re: Best Rookie QB ever, Big Ben or Bradford?

PS, Noll was 7-9 the year before Cowher and .500 with Noll players the two years before Cowher took over, went 11-5 and to the playoffs but don't let facts get in your way.

And Noll's last two seasons were hampered by Eric Green's holdout as a rookie, drug suspensions, injuries, and erratic QB play in 1991. They missed the playoffs by one game in each of those seasons.

Again, facts boy.

Any moron can look at a season record and THINK they know what went on. But you have to follow the team to actually KNOW what went on.

[Irongut]

Re: Best Rookie QB ever, Big Ben or Bradford?

PS, Noll was 7-9 the year before Cowher and .500 with Noll players the two years before Cowher took over, went 11-5 and to the playoffs but don't let facts get in your way.

And Noll's last two seasons were hampered by Eric Green's holdout as a rookie, drug suspensions, injuries, and erratic QB play in 1991. They missed the playoffs by one game in each of those seasons.

Again, facts boy.

Any moron can look at a season record and THINK they know what went on. But you have to follow the team to actually KNOW what went on.

Facts are facts. Spin them with your Cowher hate if you wish but they are still just that, facts. Are you really suggesting I didn't see those seasons? Really?

[Crash]

Re: Best Rookie QB ever, Big Ben or Bradford?

Yeah, Bradford 2010 is really in 2004 Ben's league.

He folded like a cheap chair in crunch time.

[The Sodfather]

Re: Best Rookie QB ever, Big Ben or Bradford?

Um, Ben was drafted by a 6-10 team, and a team that missed the playoffs 4 of the previous 6 years prior to his arrival.

That's some serious selective stat picking there.


They went 9-7 in 2000. Missing the playoffs largely due to 3 blown calls the league later apologized for. Went 13-3 in 2001 and 10-5-1 in 2002.

The only reason that team went 6-10 was the OL was destroyed by injuries.

Talk about someone who needs to watch the games and not just look at the stat sheet.

[Crash]

Re: Best Rookie QB ever, Big Ben or Bradford?

They went 9-7 in 2000. Missing the playoffs largely due to 3 blown calls the league later apologized for.

Blown call #1.

Cleveland:

Didn't get the FG off in time. If they would have A) Brown would have had to make it, and B) You still have to win in OT.

Blown call #2

Tennessee:

Didn't give Hines a TD earlier in a drive which cost them a time out after they scored anyway. A) The defense still choked a 4th quarter lead. B) Even with a time out left Brown would still have to make a game tying FG and then move to OT and have to win that.

Blown call #3

Philadelphia

That's the one game. On the onsides kick they blew the call. Not sure of the rule then but if they call the penalty, the Steelers I THINK would still have to recover an onsides kick.

Those calls were bad, but unlike the Tampa game 2 weeks ago, the calls if made correctly would not have "guaranteed" a Steelers win (Except maybe the Eagles game).

I didn't stat pick anywhere, I used the 6 years prior to Ben, in the same manner the Cowher-ites use his fist six seasons when the media compared him to Paul Brown because like Brown he made the playoffs his first six seasons.

You on the other hand, ignored BOTH 1998 and 1999.

Two 10 loss seasons in 5 years prior to Ben, is pretty hard to ignore.

[Irongut]

Re: Best Rookie QB ever, Big Ben or Bradford?

Yeah, Bradford 2010 is really in 2004 Ben's league.

He folded like a cheap chair in crunch time.

As did Ben against NE to end the season in 2004.

[costanza2k1]

Re: Best Rookie QB ever, Big Ben or Bradford?

Yeah, Bradford 2010 is really in 2004 Ben's league.

He folded like a cheap chair in crunch time.

As did Ben against NE to end the season in 2004.

Are you serious as Ben did? Ben ripped through the season undefeated and on to the championship game....

[Irongut]

Re: Best Rookie QB ever, Big Ben or Bradford?

Yeah, Bradford 2010 is really in 2004 Ben's league.

He folded like a cheap chair in crunch time.

As did Ben against NE to end the season in 2004.

Are you serious as Ben did? Ben ripped through the season undefeated and on to the championship game....

and crapped out in said game. Threw into coverages he was told and coached no to.

Had IIRC 3 int's?

[The Sodfather]

Re: Best Rookie QB ever, Big Ben or Bradford?

I didn't stat pick anywhere, I used the 6 years prior to Ben, in the same manner the Cowher-ites use his fist six seasons when the media compared him to Paul Brown because like Brown he made the playoffs his first six seasons.

You on the other hand, ignored BOTH 1998 and 1999.

Two 10 loss seasons in 5 years prior to Ben, is pretty hard to ignore.

It's a clear stat pick, period. 98 and 99 have as much to do with 03 as 05 and 06 have to do with this season. That is to say.............

nothing


Everyone knows that 03 team was crushed by OL injuries. That's the only reason they were not a playoff contender again. The 04 team was playoff caliber with or without Ben. Ben just made us even better.

[Crash]

Re: Best Rookie QB ever, Big Ben or Bradford?

Yeah, Bradford 2010 is really in 2004 Ben's league.

He folded like a cheap chair in crunch time.

As did Ben against NE to end the season in 2004.

So the comeback wins in Dallas and Jacksonville don't count?

Ben wasn't allowed to fold against NE in the playoffs. Cowher was too worried about running the ball.

Then when Ben and the offense got into a groove in the 3rd quarter (By throwing) and with a chance to cut the lead to 7 with a quarter left? Run, pass, run, field goal.

Season over.

[Crash]

Re: Best Rookie QB ever, Big Ben or Bradford?

Everyone knows that 03 team was crushed by OL injuries.

That's the excuse. As soon as Cowher told Maddox to be careful with the ball, and the 3 wide offense, and the no huddle offense was basically ignored until they HAD to use it. The 2003 Steelers were DONE.

That OL didn't look so bad when they'd use no huddle, the problem was they didn't use it enough.

That's coaching, not the OL.

[Irongut]

Re: Best Rookie QB ever, Big Ben or Bradford?

Yeah, Bradford 2010 is really in 2004 Ben's league.

He folded like a cheap chair in crunch time.

As did Ben against NE to end the season in 2004.

So the comeback wins in Dallas and Jacksonville don't count?

Ben wasn't allowed to fold against NE in the playoffs. Cowher was too worried about running the ball.

Then when Ben and the offense got into a groove in the 3rd quarter (By throwing) and with a chance to cut the lead to 7 with a quarter left? Run, pass, run, field goal.

Season over.

You stated above that Bradford folded like a cheap chair in crunch time.

Well, Ben did the exact same thing against NE. 3 picks. Try and change the past all you want, spin if you desire but Ben crapped out in that game.

Bradford was relied on to carry his team and had a much worse team to help him. Not saying his rookie season is better but it is compareable. Ben was not asked to carry the team. He was asked to play solidly, make a few plays a game, protect the ball and let the defense do their job, dominate.

[Crash]

Re: Best Rookie QB ever, Big Ben or Bradford?

Steven Jackson led the NFL in touches. I'd say he was asked to carry his team.

[Irongut]

Re: Best Rookie QB ever, Big Ben or Bradford?

Everyone knows that 03 team was crushed by OL injuries.

That's the excuse. As soon as Cowher told Maddox to be careful with the ball, and the 3 wide offense, and the no huddle offense was basically ignored until they HAD to use it. The 2003 Steelers were DONE.

That OL didn't look so bad when they'd use no huddle, the problem was they didn't use it enough.

That's coaching, not the OL.

The no huddle simplifies reads and creates much more man coverage. There isn't a QB on the planet that doesn't look better running it. That's not the problem. Sustaining the pace and the wear on the defense it creates often burns your own team. That's the problem.