Our average ToP in the fourth quarter of 2009:

[SteelTorch]

...And it's not what you may think.

~ 8:09*

Which means we controlled the ball for more than half the period.

A lot of fans claim our time of possession in the fourth quarter is why we lost so many games. We passed too much and didn't run the ball enough to control the clock. But with this in mind, can we still honestly say that our time of possession was what killed us? We were third in the league in ToP overall.

My opinion: no. The passing attack wasn't to blame; it was our defense playing poorly. Who knows, the ToP may have been even better were it not for our poor O-line and inefficient offense. I fear we may be focusing too much on running the ball, and not on what caused such poor play on defense. Hopefully, whatever it was got fixed.



*I did some calculating of my own, so this isn't exact, but it's a very good estimate. Does anyone know if there's a place I can find a stat like this? I tried pro-football reference and NFL.com, but no luck.

[grotonsteel]

Re: Our average ToP in the fourth quarter of 2009:

Again even if TOP was 5 min in 4th Q i would still blame the defense.

If you think you are a top notch defense in this league you don't give 80 yard drives or last second TD to backup QBs in NFL.

Its one thing to get shredded by Peyton,Tom, A Rodgers or Drew Brees of the league but by Palmer,Gradkowski, Cassell, Cutler,etc..etc..that has to hurt the Steelers D pride.

Again lets hope its all because of injuries to Aaron Smith and Troy P but Steelers D will have to play way better if Steelers need to win atleast 2 games during Big Ben suspension.

I hate that stupid 10 yard cushion to WR. It did not work last season.

[flippy]

Re: Our average ToP in the fourth quarter of 2009:

How much do we score in the 4th quarter?

We need to score more TDs and convert in the redzone. I hold the offense just as responsible for not scoring enough points and not converting enough 3rd downs.

[papillon]

Re: Our average ToP in the fourth quarter of 2009:

...And it's not what you may think.

~ 8:09*

Which means we controlled the ball for more than half the period.

A lot of fans claim our time of possession in the fourth quarter is why we lost so many games. We passed too much and didn't run the ball enough to control the clock. But with this in mind, can we still honestly say that our time of possession was what killed us? We were third in the league in ToP overall.

My opinion: no. The passing attack wasn't to blame; it was our defense playing poorly. Who knows, the ToP may have been even better were it not for our poor O-line and inefficient offense. I fear we may be focusing too much on running the ball, and not on what caused such poor play on defense. Hopefully, whatever it was got fixed.



*I did some calculating of my own, so this isn't exact, but it's a very good estimate. Does anyone know if there's a place I can find a stat like this? I tried pro-football reference and NFL.com, but no luck.

The TOP may seem like a good number, but the effectiveness of the possessions has to be taken into account. How many possessions in the 4th quarter were time consuming, but no points were gained? How many drives stalled, resulting in a punt and poor coverage giving the opposing offense decent to good field position. If you want to grind up time in the NFL the ground game is the best way to accomplish this and the Steelers struggled with short yardage early and late.

I don't blame the offense as much as the defense in 2009, but the offense wasn't efficient enough in finishing drives for points early or late in games. If a couple more drives end in points instead of nothing the Steelers have a different story to tell. The red zone was really the Steelers' achilles heel, IMO.

Pappy

[Oviedo]

Re: Our average ToP in the fourth quarter of 2009:

The defense last year cost us the play offs. No excuses can be made. based on what we saw Sunday night against the Broncos don't expect much to change this season either.

Our oppoents have figured out that we have trouble with a quick, short pass passing game. We will see lots of it this season.

[ikestops85]

Re: Our average ToP in the fourth quarter of 2009:

Again even if TOP was 5 min in 4th Q i would still blame the defense.

If you think you are a top notch defense in this league you don't give 80 yard drives or last second TD to backup QBs in NFL.

Its one thing to get shredded by Peyton,Tom, A Rodgers or Drew Brees of the league but by Palmer,Gradkowski, Cassell, Cutler,etc..etc..that has to hurt the Steelers D pride.

Again lets hope its all because of injuries to Aaron Smith and Troy P but Steelers D will have to play way better if Steelers need to win atleast 2 games during Big Ben suspension.

I hate that stupid 10 yard cushion to WR. It did not work last season.

That cushion drives me crazy also but it worked pretty damn well in 2008. I don't think it was the system last year that went bad ... it was how the players played that system that stunk.

The D had very few big plays last year where the year before we seemed to have lots in almost every game. I think this defensive philosophy is based on the offense needing many plays to drive down the field and score. It bets that the offense can't do that without making a mistake. The reason it is successful is executing a 12 play drive without making a mistake isn't easy when max pressure is applied.

However, if you don't apply the pressure consistently you can get picked apart by any NFL caliber QB ... not just the good ones. To me the difference between 2008 when our defense was one of the greatest of all times and last year when it wasn't up to par was the pressure. Not the sack total, but the quick pressure on the QB. We get that back and we again have a shot at the title. If we don't then the offense is going to have to step it up big time for us to even make the playoffs.

[Crash]

Re: Our average ToP in the fourth quarter of 2009:

A lot of fans claim our time of possession in the fourth quarter is why we lost so many games.

That's what they claim.

But that's not what happened.

Here is why they missed the playoffs, all in the 4th quarter:

The Steelers take the lead in KC, up 7 points.

Next KC drive:

Eight plays 91 yards, touchdown.

The Steelers take the lead against the Raiders.

Next Raider drive:

Three plays, 81 yards, touchdown.

The Steelers take the lead again.

Next Raider drive:

10 plays 88 yards, touchdown.

The Steelers score a TD to take the lead in Baltimore (No Ben by the way so you can't blame evil pass happy Ben for not playing "Stiller Football").

Next Ravens drive:

10 plays 84 yards, game tying FG after allowing 17 yards on 3rd and 22 and then a big gain on 4th and 5.

But because people are too worried about our image and protecting our defense's reputation, these 4th quarter facts, are ignored.

I even had one media scribe ask me: "How many 4th quarter interceptions did Ben throw to help blow those leads?"

The interceptions that Ben threw in the 4th quarter are listed below:





























-

[Ghost]

Re: Our average ToP in the fourth quarter of 2009:

You can say the O didn't score enough but how many games did they hand the D the lead in the 4th quarter?

Gradkowski for the Raiders looked like the second coming of Montana against the D.

27 points put up by KC (one of the three worst teams in the league last season).

4th and 10 for the Bengals and a back up fullback makes a first? Ridiculous!

The Defense plays better and the Steelers make the playoffs. Plain and simple.

At this point you just have to pray Troy P and Aaron S really were the main deficiencies in the D last season and this year they stay healthy.

[SteelCrazy]

Re: Our average ToP in the fourth quarter of 2009:

Crash, didnt D Dixon throw a pic at the end of the game against B-More to end our chances of winning? The whole freaking team is responsible for the season we had, not just the D. Also, for how many years has the D out-performed the O.....lol,. finish with the 5th best D and its their fault we go 9-7, Puh leeze!

[Crash]

Re: Our average ToP in the fourth quarter of 2009:

Here is the full exchange between me and Paul Zeise:


Zeise.....

How many of the blown leads were a direct result of a poorly thrown ball by Ben Roethlisberger which was picked off? I can think of at least one bad interception in every one of their blown lead games.

Guess what - if you are running the ball and punting, you aren't giving short fields.

Bill Cowher's philosophy was boring and wasn't always fun too watch, but it was effective in holding leads.

Crash

How many of the blown leads were a direct result of a poorly thrown ball by Ben Roethlisberger which was picked off?

You tell me Paul. I know the answer.

I just gave you three examples during the 5 game losing streak in which the Steelers offense SCORED 4TH QUARTER TOUCHDOWNS, only to see the defense give the lead right back when they went back on the field.

Ben Roethlisberger has also not thrown one pick in the 4th quarter all year. That's the issue here Paul, the 4th quarter defense.

Now you talk about short fields hurting the defense because of their offense.

The Steelers take the lead in KC, up 7 points.

Next KC drive:

Eight plays 91 yards, touchdown.

The Steelers take the lead against the Raiders.

Next Raider drive:

Three plays, 81 yards, touchdown.

The Steelers take the lead again.

Next Raider drive:

10 plays 88 yards, touchdown.

The Steelers score a TD to take the lead in Baltimore (No Ben by the way).

Next Ravens drive:

10 plays 84 yards, game tying FG.

Jeff Reed misses a 4th quarter FG up 7 in Chicago.

Next Bears drive?

9 plays, 72 yards, touchdown.

The Steelers up 20-9 in the 4th punt the ball to the Bengals in Cincy (This after trying to run the ball twice doing what you wanted).

Next Bengals drive:

6 plays 85 yards, touchdown to cut the lead to five points.

The Steelers run twice from their own 38 yard line, punt up 20-15.

Next Bengals drive:

16 plays 71 yards, touchdown.

Where are these short field drives that hurts the defense Paul? They don't exist. If anything the longer drives are killing the offenses chances to come back because there is no time left on the clock for the most part. Which is exactly why Mike Tomlin kicked that on-sides kick against the Packers. He figured if they were going to score on a short field, they would at least get the ball back.

They did, and they won.

[Crash]

Re: Our average ToP in the fourth quarter of 2009:

Crash, didnt D Dixon throw a pic at the end of the game against B-More to end our chances of winning?

In OT he did.

But if the defense does their job after Dixon's TD on 3rd and 22 and then 4th and 5? The game never goes to OT and Dixon's pick does not happen.

[frankthetank1]

Re: Our average ToP in the fourth quarter of 2009:

the defense definetly blew leads last season which was very un-like the steelers. i blame the defense mostly for not making the playoffs, which without smith and troy is pretty understandable. however short yardage was horrible last season and so was the red-zone offense so you can give the O some partial blame last season as well.

[drprwnap]

Re: Our average ToP in the fourth quarter of 2009:

Here is the full exchange between me and Paul Zeise:


Zeise.....

How many of the blown leads were a direct result of a poorly thrown ball by Ben Roethlisberger which was picked off? I can think of at least one bad interception in every one of their blown lead games.

Guess what - if you are running the ball and punting, you aren't giving short fields.

Bill Cowher's philosophy was boring and wasn't always fun too watch, but it was effective in holding leads.

Crash

How many of the blown leads were a direct result of a poorly thrown ball by Ben Roethlisberger which was picked off?

You tell me Paul. I know the answer.

I just gave you three examples during the 5 game losing streak in which the Steelers offense SCORED 4TH QUARTER TOUCHDOWNS, only to see the defense give the lead right back when they went back on the field.

Ben Roethlisberger has also not thrown one pick in the 4th quarter all year. That's the issue here Paul, the 4th quarter defense.

Now you talk about short fields hurting the defense because of their offense.

The Steelers take the lead in KC, up 7 points.

Next KC drive:

Eight plays 91 yards, touchdown.

The Steelers take the lead against the Raiders.

Next Raider drive:

Three plays, 81 yards, touchdown.

The Steelers take the lead again.

Next Raider drive:

10 plays 88 yards, touchdown.

The Steelers score a TD to take the lead in Baltimore (No Ben by the way).

Next Ravens drive:

10 plays 84 yards, game tying FG.

Jeff Reed misses a 4th quarter FG up 7 in Chicago.

Next Bears drive?

9 plays, 72 yards, touchdown.

The Steelers up 20-9 in the 4th punt the ball to the Bengals in Cincy (This after trying to run the ball twice doing what you wanted).

Next Bengals drive:

6 plays 85 yards, touchdown to cut the lead to five points.

The Steelers run twice from their own 38 yard line, punt up 20-15.

Next Bengals drive:

16 plays 71 yards, touchdown.

Where are these short field drives that hurts the defense Paul? They don't exist. If anything the longer drives are killing the offenses chances to come back because there is no time left on the clock for the most part. Which is exactly why Mike Tomlin kicked that on-sides kick against the Packers. He figured if they were going to score on a short field, they would at least get the ball back.

They did, and they won.

Why are you wasting time with this idiot Zeise? He's just a hair below Mark Madden as the most stupid sportswriters in Pittsburgh HISTORY. I can't sand either one of them.

[Northern_Blitz]

Re: Our average ToP in the fourth quarter of 2009:

Here are a couple of other threads about TOP and our defence from this off season.

[url]http://www.planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12033&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15[/url]

[url]http://www.planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10213[/url]

Long story short. Our TOP looked good in the 4th because we gave up points quickly. They'd score quick, then we'd get the ball back again.

Not the way to drive up your TOP.

[NorthCoast]

Re: Our average ToP in the fourth quarter of 2009:

We covered this already in great detail:

[url]http://www.planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10434&hilit=time+of+possession +time+NorthCoast[/url]

You averaged all games. Take a look at the wins vs losses. In games we lost we held the ball less than half (actually only about 1/3) of the quarter. Offense to blame as much as defense....