Is Hines Ward a future Pro Football Hall of Famer?

[Ozey74]

Re: Is Hines Ward a future Pro Football Hall of Famer?

don't get me started on Dawson

Dirt Dawson not being in the the equilivalent to Rush not being in the Rock in Roll HOF.

[CanadianSteel]

Re: Is Hines Ward a future Pro Football Hall of Famer?

Love Rush!!!!

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Is Hines Ward a future Pro Football Hall of Famer?

You sir, are correct. I meant Ray Guy, I have no idea how Reggie Roby sneaked into my consciousness.....

It's hard to forget a guy who wore a wristwatch on the football field during actual games.

[Shoe]

Re: Is Hines Ward a future Pro Football Hall of Famer?

In a lot of ways, isn't it a slap-in-the-face, of "real" ballplayers like Hines (and everyone else really) that a punter is in the HOF?

As to Hines in the HOF...
In the past 25 years that I've followed Steeler football... and putting biases aside (the fact that Lloyd has been my all-time favorite Steeler and I think he is HOF worthy), I think Hines is the currently most induction-worthy Steeler (i.e. ahead of even Dawson).

I mean production, longevity, spirit, toughness, championships (2x), off-field... this guy is a shoe-in (and BTW, I think he's surpassing Lloyd on my all-time list--sorry Greg!)

[RussBII]

Re: Is Hines Ward a future Pro Football Hall of Famer?

In a lot of ways, isn't it a slap-in-the-face, of "real" ballplayers like Hines (and everyone else really) that a punter is in the HOF?

Ray Guy isn't in the HOF currently, and I don't think so at all.

Coaches get inducted. Announcers and Owners get inducted too. They don't even step foot on the field. At least a punter can get hit and make a tackle, ya know? I just think the best of EVERY position should be represented. And the bias towards the "flashy" players is crap. EVERY position is important. Only one kicker is in the HOF, and they score most of their teams points...

If you don't think punting is important, I ask you to recall Mitch Berger.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Is Hines Ward a future Pro Football Hall of Famer?

In a lot of ways, isn't it a slap-in-the-face, of "real" ballplayers like Hines (and everyone else really) that a punter is in the HOF?

As to Hines in the HOF...
In the past 25 years that I've followed Steeler football... and putting biases aside (the fact that Lloyd has been my all-time favorite Steeler and I think he is HOF worthy), I think Hines is the currently most induction-worthy Steeler (i.e. ahead of even Dawson).

I mean production, longevity, spirit, toughness, championships (2x), off-field... this guy is a shoe-in (and BTW, I think he's surpassing Lloyd on my all-time list--sorry Greg!)

A punter is not in the Hall of Fame (but I think that Ray Guy should be...if you are the best ever at your position, you should be in). There is one kicker in the Hall of Fame, though (Jan Stenerud). Guy is more head and shoulders above all the other punters than Stenerud ever was above other kickers, which makes the decision all the more puzzling (but I guess since kickers score points and punter only impact field position rather than the scoreboard itself, that impacts the P.O.V. of the sportswriters who vote on such things).

Lloyd was also my favorite Steeler (it was my first jersey back in the 8th grade) and Ward is my new favorite (the only authentic jersey I bought for myself after my original Lloyd model). But I think that Dawson is the most deserving Steeler not in the Hall of Fame. He was better at his position than Ward or Lloyd ever were at their respective positions. Mike Webster is in the Hall of Fame as a center and Dwight Stephenson is in the Hall of Fame as a center. If you take the best attributes of each of those guys and combine them into one player, you get Dermontti Dawson. You could easily make an argument that he could be the best center of all time. But because he played in an era in which we only played in one Super Bowl and didn't win any, he is overlooked (particularly since he is an offensive lineman and not a more glamour position with obvious stats like touchdowns or sacks).

[NC Steeler Fan]

Re: Is Hines Ward a future Pro Football Hall of Famer?

If there is asubstantial number of female judges on the selection panel, Hines is a first ballot inductee!

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Is Hines Ward a future Pro Football Hall of Famer?

If there is asubstantial number of female judges on the selection panel, Hines is a first ballot inductee!

Unless you'd consider two to be substantial...

Pro Football Hall of Fame Selection Committee

Arizona Kent Somers, Arizona Republic
Atlanta Len Pasquarelli, ESPN.com
Baltimore Scott Garceau, WMAR-TV
Buffalo Mark Gaughan, Buffalo News
Carolina TBD
Chicago Dan Pompei, Chicago Tribune*
Cincinnati Joe Reedy, Cincinnati Enquirer
Cleveland Tony Grossi, Cleveland Plain Dealer
Dallas Rick Gosselin, Dallas Morning News*
Denver Jeff Legwold, Denver Post
Detroit Tom Kowalski, Booth Newspapers
Green Bay Cliff Christl, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Houston John McClain, Houston Chronicle*
Indianapolis Mike Chappell, Indianapolis Star
Jacksonville Sam Kouvaris, WJXT-TV
Kansas City Bob Gretz, KCFootballReport.com
Miami Edwin Pope, Miami Herald*
Minnesota Sid Hartman, The Minneapolis Star-Tribune
New England Ron Borges, Boston Herald*
New Orleans Pete Finney, Times-Picayune
New York (Giants) Vinny DiTrani, Bergen Record
New York (Jets) Gary Myers, New York Daily News
Oakland Frank Cooney, The Sports Xchange
Philadelphia Paul Domowitch, Philadelphia Daily News
Pittsburgh Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
St. Louis Bernie Miklasz, St. Louis Post-Dispatch
San Diego Nick Canepa, San Diego Union Tribune
San Francisco Nancy Gay, AOL Sports/Fanhouse
Seattle Mike Sando, ESPN.com
Tampa Bay Ira Kaufman, Tampa Tribune
Tennessee David Climer, The Tennessean
Washington David Elfin, Washington Times
PFWA Darryl Ledbetter, Atlanta Journal-Constitution
At Large Howard Balzer, The Sports Xchange
At Large Jarrett Bell, USA Today
At Large John Clayton, ESPN/ESPN Magazine
At Large John Czarnecki, FOXSports.com*
At Large Dave Goldberg, AOL Sports/Fanhouse*
At Large Peter King, Sports Illustrated
At Large Ira Miller, The Sports Xchange*
At Large Len Shapiro, Miami Herald*
At Large Vito Stellino, Florida Times Union
At Large Jim Trotter, Sports Illustrated
At Large Charean Williams, Ft. Worth Star Telegram

[NC Steeler Fan]

Re: Is Hines Ward a future Pro Football Hall of Famer?

If there is asubstantial number of female judges on the selection panel, Hines is a first ballot inductee!

Unless you'd consider two to be substantial...

Pro Football Hall of Fame Selection Committee

Arizona Kent Somers, Arizona Republic
Atlanta Len Pasquarelli, ESPN.com
Baltimore Scott Garceau, WMAR-TV
Buffalo Mark Gaughan, Buffalo News
Carolina TBD
Chicago Dan Pompei, Chicago Tribune*
Cincinnati Joe Reedy, Cincinnati Enquirer
Cleveland Tony Grossi, Cleveland Plain Dealer
Dallas Rick Gosselin, Dallas Morning News*
Denver Jeff Legwold, Denver Post
Detroit Tom Kowalski, Booth Newspapers
Green Bay Cliff Christl, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Houston John McClain, Houston Chronicle*
Indianapolis Mike Chappell, Indianapolis Star
Jacksonville Sam Kouvaris, WJXT-TV
Kansas City Bob Gretz, KCFootballReport.com
Miami Edwin Pope, Miami Herald*
Minnesota Sid Hartman, The Minneapolis Star-Tribune
New England Ron Borges, Boston Herald*
New Orleans Pete Finney, Times-Picayune
New York (Giants) Vinny DiTrani, Bergen Record
New York (Jets) Gary Myers, New York Daily News
Oakland Frank Cooney, The Sports Xchange
Philadelphia Paul Domowitch, Philadelphia Daily News
Pittsburgh Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
St. Louis Bernie Miklasz, St. Louis Post-Dispatch
San Diego Nick Canepa, San Diego Union Tribune
San Francisco Nancy Gay, AOL Sports/Fanhouse
Seattle Mike Sando, ESPN.com
Tampa Bay Ira Kaufman, Tampa Tribune
Tennessee David Climer, The Tennessean
Washington David Elfin, Washington Times
PFWA Darryl Ledbetter, Atlanta Journal-Constitution
At Large Howard Balzer, The Sports Xchange
At Large Jarrett Bell, USA Today
At Large John Clayton, ESPN/ESPN Magazine
At Large John Czarnecki, FOXSports.com*
At Large Dave Goldberg, AOL Sports/Fanhouse*
At Large Peter King, Sports Illustrated
At Large Ira Miller, The Sports Xchange*
At Large Len Shapiro, Miami Herald*
At Large Vito Stellino, Florida Times Union
At Large Jim Trotter, Sports Illustrated
At Large Charean Williams, Ft. Worth Star Telegram

Bummer!

[fezziwig]

Re: Is Hines Ward a future Pro Football Hall of Famer?

I think Hines deserves it but he probably won't because he doesn't have those giant stats that they seem to soak up. I don't think that is fair and I think Hines is probably more deserving than many of the HOF. We might be surprised but it will be a long time and coming.

Bettis should make it.
Troy will make it.
Ben will make it if he keeps up his stats and game management.
Darn shame that Dirt is getting the snub.

[Captain Lemming]

Re: Is Hines Ward a future Pro Football Hall of Famer?

I think Hines is the currently most induction-worthy Steeler (i.e. ahead of even Dawson).

I mean production, longevity, spirit, toughness, championships (2x), off-field... this guy is a shoe-in (and BTW, I think he's surpassing Lloyd on my all-time list--sorry Greg!)

No WAY ON EARTH is Hines more HOF worthy than Dirt. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

Dawson was without question or argument the best Center of his era. Arguably the best EVER.
You cannot make that statement about Hines. For even ONE season.

Hines has been very good for very long. He is possibly the best blocking receiver ever. But blocking is a secondary role of a receiver. It is like saying someone is the best blocking halfback ever will get you in.

He has NEVER been the leagues BEST receiver or even in the conversation by non-homer Steeler fans.

I think championships should affect only QBs, because victory hinges on their composure like no other position. Unless you show me tape of a DTackle blowing past Dermotti causing the pressure that forced NOD to throw his picks, Dawson has nothing to do with his team never winning a SB.

Dont get me wrong, I dont hate on Hines. I will be very happy if he gets in. The combination of excellent (but not eye popping for this era) numbers AND his great blocking give him a shot. I think his resume is sufficient to get in but BY NO MEANS overwhelming.

It is the comparison to Dirt that I have a problem with. Dirt is more deserving by a mile.

[Captain Lemming]

Re: Is Hines Ward a future Pro Football Hall of Famer?

I think Hines deserves it but he probably won't because he doesn't have those giant stats that they seem to soak up. I don't think that is fair and I think Hines is probably more deserving than many of the HOF. We might be surprised but it will be a long time and coming.

Bettis should make it.
Troy will make it.
Ben will make it if he keeps up his stats and game management.
Darn shame that Dirt is getting the snub.

If Troy can keep healthy, he will end up a LEGENDARY player, on a Ronnie Lot level. People will stop the foolosh comparison to Ed "sit back in deep coverage waiting for an errant pass" Reed.

[Shoe]

Re: Is Hines Ward a future Pro Football Hall of Famer?

All your comments about Dawson make me realize that power of rose-colored glasses syndrome. Dawson was excellent; I'm not questioning that. But, was he Bruce Matthews? No. Was he Erik Williams or Larry Allen in terms of pure dominance? No. He was an excellent player who, I think rightfully is on the fringe for HOF consideration. It's weird; I would not object to him being first-ballot, but I definitely don't see it as a glaring omission either, if he lingers a few years.

Kevin Mawae is very similar to Dawson... the guy has probably made more Pro Bowls in fact. Is Kevin Mawae first-ballot? I don't think so at all.

As for him being undoubtedly a better HOF choice, you are simply going by statistics and perception. How many thick-bodied Koreans with 4.8 speed, short arms, being consistent 1,000 WRs and SB MVPs? Not to mention the great blocker that he is? What this guy has accomplished given his average physical abilities, it's incredible. It's like Largent--Largent's greatness is larger, because he had to overcome much more to become the great player he was.

[Captain Lemming]

Re: Is Hines Ward a future Pro Football Hall of Famer?

All your comments about Dawson make me realize that power of rose-colored glasses syndrome. Dawson was excellent; I'm not questioning that. But, was he Bruce Matthews? No. Was he Erik Williams or Larry Allen in terms of pure dominance? No. He was an excellent player who, I think rightfully is on the fringe for HOF consideration. It's weird; I would not object to him being first-ballot, but I definitely don't see it as a glaring omission either, if he lingers a few years.

He was not those players. They were not CENTERS.
They all were brutish strong true
Dawson was MUCH more athletic than any of those guys (Mathews might have been the closest).
These guys could destroy somebody true.
But Dawson could block his man, a LBer then a safety 20 yards downfield.
He could make plays that Erik Williams or Larry Allen simply could not.
Nevertheless, they were at some time the very best at their positions, HOF worthy in my view, are not centers so it does not detract from Dawson one bit.

Kevin Mawae is very similar to Dawson... the guy has probably made more Pro Bowls in fact. Is Kevin Mawae first-ballot? I don't think so at all.

Mawae has only one more probowl ( than Dawson (7). However, note that Dawson was ALL PRO SIX STRAIGHT YEARS Mawae was All Pro half as many times (3).

Dawson was the best center in the league for twice as long. His Sixth straight AllPro season was his last full season. He played two more partial seasons. Injuries prevented his streak from being longer.

But Mawae is very deserving. He like Dawson has been the best at his position among his peers. Nobody who is not a Steeler fan says that about Hines during any point in his career,

As for him being undoubtedly a better HOF choice, you are simply going by statistics and perception. How many thick-bodied Koreans with 4.8 speed, short arms, being consistent 1,000 WRs and SB MVPs? Not to mention the great blocker that he is? What this guy has accomplished given his average physical abilities, it's incredible. It's like Largent--Largent's greatness is larger, because he had to overcome much more to become the great player he was.

This here is the point. It is clear to see.

You are giving Hines "extra credit" for "heart". That my friend is classic "homerism". Hines is the ultimate "Rudy" because he actually is a Pro bowl caliber Rudy, which is rare. Rocky Bleier had two times the "heart" as Franco. Rocky was small, slow, AND was a war hero. Franco on the other hand would frequently run out of bounds to save himself from a hit. But Franco is in the HOF.

Do you want to know why Largent is in the HOF?

When Largent retired, he held all major NFL receiving records, including: most receptions in a career, most receiving yards in a career, and most touchdown receptions. He was also in possession of a then-record streak of 177 consecutive regular-season games with a reception.

He didnt get in because he exceeded expectations based on limited talent. He got in because he PRODUCED on a level never seen up to that point.

Other than Jerry Rice, Largent was as deserving as anybody ever.

Hines has indeed accomplished a great deal. I hope he gets in. You talk about him being Korean, I am black and my wife is Asian, we jokingly call him "our kid" all the time, I like the guy.

But, Dirt is on the short list of two or three best ever at his position and had no peer during his prime. Ward is not close to that level of elite as a receiver.

[NJ-STEELER]

Re: Is Hines Ward a future Pro Football Hall of Famer?

i think lemming hit it on the head.

he's not going to be a 1st ballot guy, and he'll have trouble getting in at all for the reason he states. the writers look at dominace at their position in that era much more then career stats

its what kept art monk out for a long time, but he eventually got in. i can see the same happening for hines


i wonder about some of the OL in the Hall and if they can even match dirt's 6 consecutive all pro years. shame he hasn't been voted in yet