Hmmm...interesting reading...

[Oviedo]

Re: Hmmm...interesting reading...

Ben short clearly be on a short leash with the franchise and be given a chance to redeem himself. Heck Tiger Woods was guilty of his trangressions and he is being embraced by the fans again. Ben has just been accused and has created a negative perception.

I also think we all need to remember that it took us 25 years to replace Bradshaw with a franchise QB. I would rather give Ben a chance to change his life around and prove he deserves our respect than just throw him out the door and wait another 25 years. I'm not that young anymore

[Northern_Blitz]

Re: Hmmm...interesting reading...

If a trade happens now, I think the only reason will be that the current CBA gives the Steelers a unique opportunity. Personally, I don't think we should trade (unless we get an offer we can't refuse).

But, if they arn't confident Ben can avoid future problems:

1) His trade value may never be higher. And with a deep draft even if we can get a team to throw in an extra 3rd or so, it may make a difference. Another accusation, especially if it comes with charges or a conviction, makes his value less than Holmes'.

2) They can get away from the massive amount of $$ they still owe him. Limiting risk is usually a good idea.

And the only reason a trade is possible now,

3) There would be NO SALARY CAP PENALTY. There is no way a deal happens in any other off season. The cap penalty would be gigantic and cripple the team. Now, if they make a deal they would help the team by adding additional excellent young players, and it wouldn't affect how they pay everyone else on the team. If they think that they might make a deal NOW is the only time (in the next 4 years or so) they can do it if they believe that the salary cap will exist in a future CBA.

[LouSteel]

Re: Hmmm...interesting reading...

Let's trade Troy while his value is high. He had rest all last season so he'll be back and ready to go.

I say we should do it...who's with me?

Troy loses playing time due to injury. That's not something he can control. Thus, we can't make any assumptions on how much he will or won't play in the future.

There is little upside for trading him -- we don't know when his performance will really decline.

Ben, on the other hand, is looking to lose playing time due to his actions. He needs to get in control of that.

And if he gives the team the same "I'll do better" speech they heard after he stopped a Chrysler with his face... the same speech he gave after the FIRST accusation of sexual assault, management may start to believe that he isn't going to "change his ways" and that trouble is soon to follow.

That means there is far more upside for trading Ben while he still has some trade value.

[Oviedo]

Re: Hmmm...interesting reading...

Let's trade Troy while his value is high. He had rest all last season so he'll be back and ready to go.

I say we should do it...who's with me?

Troy loses playing time due to injury. That's not something he can control. Thus, we can't make any assumptions on how much he will or won't play in the future.

There is little upside for trading him -- we don't know when his performance will really decline.

Ben, on the other hand, is looking to lose playing time due to his actions. He needs to get in control of that.

And if he gives the team the same "I'll do better" speech they heard after he stopped a Chrysler with his face... the same speech he gave after the FIRST accusation of sexual assault, management may start to believe that he isn't going to "change his ways" and that trouble is soon to follow.

That means there is far more upside for trading Ben while he still has some trade value.

If Ben had Troy's morals we would not be dealing with this crap. Maybe ben should be hanging out with Troy versus Willie Colon and the OL.

[Northern_Blitz]

Re: Hmmm...interesting reading...

Let's trade Troy while his value is high. He had rest all last season so he'll be back and ready to go.

I say we should do it...who's with me?

I'd keep Troy. The probability of his football career ending because he gets sent to jail in the middle of a record contract is pretty low. I also woudn't have a problem explaining why I'm chearing for 43 to my daughter.

(For the record, I'm for keeping Ben too. But if someone offered us 2 1st rounders for Troy, I would consider it?)

[LouSteel]

Re: Hmmm...interesting reading...

If Ben had Troy's morals we would not be dealing with this crap. Maybe ben should be hanging out with Troy versus Willie Colon and the OL.

I personally don't want to trade Ben... but I understand the Steelers see and understand much more than I do. If the organization believes keeping Ben will only lead to more problems, I'm going to support whatever decision they make.

[Oviedo]

Re: Hmmm...interesting reading...

If Ben had Troy's morals we would not be dealing with this crap. Maybe ben should be hanging out with Troy versus Willie Colon and the OL.

I personally don't want to trade Ben... but I understand the Steelers see and understand much more than I do. If the organization believes keeping Ben will only lead to more problems, I'm going to support whatever decision they make.

I don't want to trade Ben either and I support the organization no mater what decision they make. My view has always been the uniform is more importnat than the person wearing it. That will always be my view.

The Rooney's have been good owners of this franchise for a long period of time. This means more to them on a lot more levels than the emotional attachments we have as fans so I trust their decisions.

[papillon]

Re: Hmmm...interesting reading...

Let's trade Troy while his value is high. He had rest all last season so he'll be back and ready to go.

I say we should do it...who's with me?

No, Troy manages to keep himself out of trouble in the off season and, hopefully, there will be no kick blocking team action for him this year and he remains healthy. The Steelers will have preeminent safety in the game playing for them. Trading him would be a bad idea.

Pappy

[Steel Life]

Re: Hmmm...interesting reading...

Guys - I believe that D was being sarcastic...at least I hope so.

[SteelAbility]

Re: Hmmm...interesting reading...

strlz_d was being sarcastic and he has a good point. The analogy isn't 100% because Troy and Ben are in very different ballparks as far as off-field behavior. But the point is valid, being that these are "once every 20-25 years" types of players. That being said, even with Troy there is a point at which a trade is worth it ... believe it or not.

[Chadman]

Re: Hmmm...interesting reading...

strlz_d was being sarcastic and he has a good point. The analogy isn't 100% because Troy and Ben are in very different ballparks as far as off-field behavior. But the point is valid, being that these are "once every 20-25 years" types of players. That being said, even with Troy there is a point at which a trade is worth it ... believe it or not.

So are you saying that Ben's athletic ability reduces his need to be held accountable for his actions outside of football, because he knows that great players are treated differently?

Doesn't sound like something Dan Rooney would agree with...

[ROLROC]

Re: Hmmm...interesting reading...

he!! no to trading Ben.

[SteelAbility]

Re: Hmmm...interesting reading...

strlz_d was being sarcastic and he has a good point. The analogy isn't 100% because Troy and Ben are in very different ballparks as far as off-field behavior. But the point is valid, being that these are "once every 20-25 years" types of players. That being said, even with Troy there is a point at which a trade is worth it ... believe it or not.

So are you saying that Ben's athletic ability reduces his need to be held accountable for his actions outside of football, because he knows that great players are treated differently?

Doesn't sound like something Dan Rooney would agree with...

I'm saying that trading Ben has to have a balance between off-field accountability and on-field abilities. Right now it isn't clear how close Ben is to the allegations made. It is clear that the standards of criminal prosecution can't be met. The GA DAs comments seemed to point to "I would prosecute if the girl was on-board." That, and the constant referral to the girl as "the victim" has created very high concern about his off-field behavior. We can argue all day about whether or not that was fair. It is what it is and we have to live with it. But there is also merit to claims that his judgment is poor NOW, but can be corrected with some smarts, guidance, and strategy.

His on-field performance is obviously very high and, yes, he is a once-every-twenty-years type of a player. Therefore, trading him merits putting MUCH thought into it and, IMO, establishing an absolute non-negotiable minimum in what you'll take for him. There is a point at which he's worth it. That's a $1M debate.

But if you trade him away on the strength of allegations for well under what he's really worth, assuming the off-field stuff to be true or close to true or non-correctable in order to "send a message" and it comes out that it was all a "series of unfortunate events" you're going to feel like a total dunce.

Like it or not, there is uncertainty in the air until either further information comes out or Ben shows consistency, consistency, and then some more consistency.

[aggiebones]

Re: Hmmm...interesting reading...

Even my church doesn't throw out sinners. Why would the Steelers?

He hasn't been in any trouble until this Summer (aside from a ticket for not wearing a helmet). So he had a bad run. He can start over to a degree and fix himself. He's not been in 5 types of trouble like Holmes on an expiring contract.
He deserves disciplined, not excommunicated. If he doesn't/can't or won't repair himself, we'll trade him to the Bengals.

[aggiebones]

Re: Hmmm...interesting reading...

And, the difference between us and the Bengals is we have to deal with players from time to time. They went and gathered them all up from other teams because their organization is so devoid of talent evaluators that they had to take other people talent no mantte how tainted they were.