Who's going to be our RG next year?

[pfelix73]

Re: Who's going to be our RG next year?

Why is it so hard for the majority of the fans on this board to understand that the OL is set like the article says? Because of the sacks? Come on. There's more to it than the OL. Not having a FB, poor OL blocking schemes, and Ben being Ben are 3 reasons that contributed to a majority of those sacks. Sure the OL should take some blame- BUT NOT ALL OF IT. This is reality, so just get on board- why? Because this is a young OL and the coaches are the ones who set the depth charts. This subject was the same thing that many of you were talking about last year at this time and when push came to shove everything in August stayed the same except that Stapleton got hurt and Essex was awarded the starting RG spot. So, barring any injuries in 2010, the OL is already in place.

There is plenty of depth at the interior positions with Foster, Urbik, and Legursky. We have Hills and the new vet that was brought in from Buffalo at OT. If there is any position that might need another player for depth it would be OT, because the jury is out on Hills. That leaves not much room for any rookie. Don't look for many OL to be taken and to be honest, the ONLY way I'd take Pouncey would be if he slid down to us in the 2nd round.

Other than that, draft CB's, DL, and LB's, all day long and throw in a OT, RB and maybe a WR as well.


Oh, and the answer to the question on this thread is very simple- Essex. He's already #1 on the depth chart going into camp. Barring injury, I seriously doubt he loses it.

[birtikidis]

Re: Who's going to be our RG next year?

Why is it so hard for the majority of the fans on this board to understand that the OL is set like the article says? Because of the sacks? Come on. There's more to it than the OL. Not having a FB, poor OL blocking schemes, and Ben being Ben are 3 reasons that contributed to a majority of those sacks. Sure the OL should take some blame- BUT NOT ALL OF IT. This is reality, so just get on board- why? Because this is a young OL and the coaches are the ones who set the depth charts. This subject was the same thing that many of you were talking about last year at this time and when push came to shove everything in August stayed the same except that Stapleton got hurt and Essex was awarded the starting RG spot. So, barring any injuries in 2010, the OL is already in place.

There is plenty of depth at the interior positions with Foster, Urbik, and Legursky. We have Hills and the new vet that was brought in from Buffalo at OT. If there is any position that might need another player for depth it would be OT, because the jury is out on Hills. That leaves not much room for any rookie. Don't look for many OL to be taken and to be honest, the ONLY way I'd take Pouncey would be if he slid down to us in the 2nd round.

Other than that, draft CB's, DL, and LB's, all day long and throw in a OT, RB and maybe a WR as well.


Oh, and the answer to the question on this thread is very simple- Essex. He's already #1 on the depth chart going into camp. Barring injury, I seriously doubt he loses it.

why is it hard for the majority to buy what that crap article wrote? well, because frankly, like most articles written about the steelers, it was crap. i don't even think the writer watched a game for the past two years.
i think, it's probably the fact that Hartwig has rated as the worst center in the league last year and was pretty damn terrible the year before. ANYONE who has WATCHED the steelers, unlike the writer of said article, would agree with me.

[pfelix73]

Re: Who's going to be our RG next year?

The coaching staff knows their players the best- not us just because we watch a 16 game season. After all, they are the ones who get paid the bucks to evaluate their players 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

IF Hartwig was so bad at Center last year, as you are saying, then why wouldn't a change be made? Say Legursky? Why? Because Hartwig is the #1 Center on the depth chart and he isn't as bad as a lot of you think he is. He's there for a reason, and he's not taken off the depth chart that just because some stats who come from wherever say something else- which, by the way, is totally crap anyway. The Steelers would have their own stats internally, and could be totally different than what's floating on the internet. Again, have you ever played along the OL? Do you know what all goes on up there? I bet not. Simply- There are schemes that the coaches put in for game planning, etc. Note that we have a new OL coach now and new schemes will be developed by him now. Furthermore, we also have a QB that likes to run around and make plays, etc. and that's great. It means a few more sacks- so be it.

I'll go by what the coaching staff does, rather than what a bunch of fans on here or a Mel Kiper who probably has never even played a down of football in his life try to decide whats in the best interests for the OL-- Again, all I ask is that you guys deal with the reality that the OL is already set, barring injuries.

Answer me this:

Say we draft Iupati. Who do we cut?

These players are set:

Starks
Kemo
Hartwig
Essex
Colon
Urbik
Foster
Legursky
New Vet that signed-

that's 9 already and that leaves out Hills Usually, the 53 man roster has 9, I believe. or around there.

Urbik was a 3rd rounder, Foster has playing experience and is a good young lineman, Legursky played well too and now has experience.. Again, I don't see us using a high draft pick on a OL. If Pouncey would fall, then he'd be worth it, but not at 18- NO Way.

[Shawn]

Re: Who's going to be our RG next year?

I think most of us are hoping Urbik finally lives up to the expectations. If he really is that bad...Iupati is a real possibility.

[pfelix73]

Re: Who's going to be our RG next year?

Well true- that would be the weak link possibly, but man would it be difficult to cut a 3rd rounder after just 2 years. Again, it's just reality and a numbers thing. I just don;t see where a high round OL fits in to the depth chart. That would be a waste to cut Urbik a 3rd round pick over say Iupati or Pouncey. If that's the case, then what can we say for those picking the players? We've already got a 2nd rounder in Sweed possibly on the way out...not to mention some others in the past.

Again, I just don't see a high round pick being used for an interior OL. And IF they did use the 18th pick on say Iupati or Pouncey then they are already giving in to a possible mistake on picking Urbik. That would be embarrassing at this point.

[birtikidis]

Re: Who's going to be our RG next year?

The coaching staff knows their players the best- not us just because we watch a 16 game season. After all, they are the ones who get paid the bucks to evaluate their players 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

IF Hartwig was so bad at Center last year, as you are saying, then why wouldn't a change be made? Say Legursky? Why? Because Hartwig is the #1 Center on the depth chart and he isn't as bad as a lot of you think he is. He's there for a reason, and he's not taken off the depth chart that just because some stats who come from wherever say something else- which, by the way, is totally crap anyway. The Steelers would have their own stats internally, and could be totally different than what's floating on the internet. Again, have you ever played along the OL? Do you know what all goes on up there? I bet not. Simply- There are schemes that the coaches put in for game planning, etc. Note that we have a new OL coach now and new schemes will be developed by him now. Furthermore, we also have a QB that likes to run around and make plays, etc. and that's great. It means a few more sacks- so be it.

I'll go by what the coaching staff does, rather than what a bunch of fans on here or a Mel Kiper who probably has never even played a down of football in his life try to decide whats in the best interests for the OL-- Again, all I ask is that you guys deal with the reality that the OL is already set, barring injuries.

Answer me this:

Say we draft Iupati. Who do we cut?

These players are set:

Starks
Kemo
Hartwig
Essex
Colon
Urbik
Foster
Legursky
New Vet that signed-

that's 9 already and that leaves out Hills Usually, the 53 man roster has 9, I believe. or around there.

Urbik was a 3rd rounder, Foster has playing experience and is a good young lineman, Legursky played well too and now has experience.. Again, I don't see us using a high draft pick on a OL. If Pouncey would fall, then he'd be worth it, but not at 18- NO Way.

maybe legursky is as much of a bum as hartwig. You can't polish a turd, and hartwig is a turd. Plus you have to realize that legursky was more of a swing man, and helped provie depth at guard. Hartwig didn't. Just cus a guy starts doesn't mean he's any good.

[NJ-STEELER]

Re: Who's going to be our RG next year?

you dont see harwig getting pushed back and beaten pretty much all season, then i question how much you do watch. and i'm not even a big seperate watcher of the OL.


do you think the steeler coaches are gonna come out and throw the OL under the bus when they have no capable replacement?

maybe his injury (had off season shoulder surgery) had something to do with it and i'm hoping a new blcoking scheme helps the run game and pass protection, but i'm thinking there's a reason why another NFL team waived a vet center

[Discipline of Steel]

Re: Who's going to be our RG next year?

you dont see harwig getting pushed back and beaten pretty much all season, then i question how much you do watch. and i'm not even a big seperate watcher of the OL.


do you think the steeler coaches are gonna come out and throw the OL under the bus when they have no capable replacement?

maybe his injury (had off season shoulder surgery) had something to do with it and i'm hoping a new blcoking scheme helps the run game and pass protection, but i'm thinking there's a reason why another NFL team waived a vet center

The reality of it is...Hartwig was cut because Carolina spent a high draft pick on a new center, so the scenario has already played out with him once.

Some here have already labelled Urbik as the next Bruce Davis and are willing to junk him after a redshirt freshman season. Shoot, if we are going to be that short sighted, why didnt we just dump him last September when that article came out saying he was a disappointment in camp?? Is there no chance he could yet turn out to be a good player?? At this point, are we in this forum really in a position to say the team made a terrible pick with him? The body of work just isnt there for us to give up already on our second pick in last years draft, IMHO. And no, Ramon Foster does not mean we NEED to spend our first round pick on the RG position. If anything, it indicates we should look to solidify another position with less depth, such as our defensive backfield where I would be much more willing to grade Ryan Mundy and Willie Gay as washouts since they have had their chances on the playing field.

[Chadman]

Re: Who's going to be our RG next year?

Some interesting arguments have been put forward here.

Ok, so many of you know that Chadman has Iupati at the top of his draft list, so perhaps Chadman's view could be slightly skewed, but..

If you are going to say we don't need to upgrade the OG position, because the Steelers drafted Urbik last season- be consistant. We don't need to draft a CB either, because of Lewis & Burnett. And certainly no need for a Jared Odrick- we have Hood & Harris. Just re-signed Ryan Clark- there goes the need for a Safety.

In fact, it seems every position is filled. Let's trade this years draft picks away for a couple of 1st rounders in next years draft.

If you are going to argue that the D-Backs have shown nothing & need upgrading- better add the OL to your list of 'shown nothing'.

If Starks, Kemo, Hartwig, Essex & Colon being retained, and Legursky, Foster, Hills & Urbik still being on the roster means there isn't a need on the OL, then having Taylor, Gay, Burnett, Lewis, Williams, Maddison, Clark, Mundy, Polamalu & Allen proves that last years starters are all in place & there are no vacancies in the D-Backfield, so don't draft a DB.

If you are going to argue that Gay sucked, and therefore we need a new CB, then Essex sucked, and we need a new RG. What's that? We have Urbik? Oh- well we have Burnett & Lewis too- we should be ok then, using that theory.




In Chadman's opinion- Iupati is an upgrade on all the other options at RG. It's that simple. Drafting him, makes RG better. Does it mean Urbik is a wash-out? Nope. But it means Chadman is going to use the fact that the 3rd round pick not being able to beat out the undrafted rookie for playing time, is not an indication of future greatness- much like how all those in favour of drafting a CB must feel that Burnett & Lewis not beating out Gay proves they are wasted draft picks.

It's all about getting better. Iupati serves that purpose- and also goes some way to fulfilling both Mike Tomlin & Dan Rooney's desire to improve the running game, without spending a 2nd 1st round pick on a RB.

[AkronSteel]

Re: Who's going to be our RG next year?

I would love to see Urbik step up and take the RG position this year! It would allow Essex to move back to swing tackle and it would give the team the oppurtunity to have Foster be a more universal backup who could play all positions except C. I would like to see an OL next year that looks like this

LT - Max Starks
LG- Chris Kemoeatu
C- Maurkice Pouncey
RG- Kraig Urbik
RT- Willie Colon

Backups:
Trai Essex
Ramon Foster
Justin Hartwig
Jonathan Scott

That would be a solid bunch and a definite upgrade over what the team has had for a few years. We just need Urbik to step up and Pouncey to fall to us in the draft. I fully believe that if Pouncey is available at #18, that is who we are taking!!

[birtikidis]

Re: Who's going to be our RG next year?

see chadman that's why I say center is a smart move. I am consistent! I don't think we give up on the kids at corner OR Guard.
though, I'm of the opinion if a VETERAN sucks (such as hartwig) and has SUCKED for multiple seasons (such as hartwig) then he needs replaced.
I don't have pouncey at the top of my draft list.. he's just gonna be teh best player on it when we draft...

[Discipline of Steel]

Re: Who's going to be our RG next year?

Its true Chadman, we have players at every position and the draft goal should be to grab whatever quality players fall to us, with a few positions in mind. I agree interior OL should be a prioritized unit as well as defensive backfield. The reason I put a little more emphasis on DBs is because there can sometimes be up to 6 on the field at a time and if one guy sucks, he will get picked on. There are never more than 3 interior lineman on the field ever, so we dont need as much quality depth there.

Speaking of depth, at least there is still hope for Essex, Legursky, Foster, and Urbik to become good players, only Hartwig needs to move on soon. Out of the Dbs you mentioned, Gay is a downgrade, Madison and Mundy need to disappear, and i dont know who Williams is. That leaves us only 6 players with real potential, counting Will Allen.

[birtikidis]

Re: Who's going to be our RG next year?

Its true Chadman, we have players at every position and the draft goal should be to grab whatever quality players fall to us, with a few positions in mind. I agree interior OL should be a prioritized unit as well as defensive backfield. The reason I put a little more emphasis on DBs is because there can sometimes be up to 6 on the field at a time and if one guy sucks, he will get picked on. There are never more than 3 interior lineman on the field ever, so we dont need as much quality depth there.

Speaking of depth, at least there is still hope for Essex, Legursky, Foster, and Urbik to become good players, only Hartwig needs to move on soon. Out of the Dbs you mentioned, Gay is a downgrade, Madison and Mundy need to disappear, and i dont know who Williams is. That leaves us only 6 players with real potential, counting Will Allen.

you're arguement is flawed. you say there may be 6 db's on the field at a time so it's more important to upgrade that... WHAT!!! for a handful of snaps we should reach for a guy? you ralize that, even though there are only three interior O lineman, they are on the field for EVERY snap! not just a handful of situations!

[Discipline of Steel]

Re: Who's going to be our RG next year?

Its true Chadman, we have players at every position and the draft goal should be to grab whatever quality players fall to us, with a few positions in mind. I agree interior OL should be a prioritized unit as well as defensive backfield. The reason I put a little more emphasis on DBs is because there can sometimes be up to 6 on the field at a time and if one guy sucks, he will get picked on. There are never more than 3 interior lineman on the field ever, so we dont need as much quality depth there.

Speaking of depth, at least there is still hope for Essex, Legursky, Foster, and Urbik to become good players, only Hartwig needs to move on soon. Out of the Dbs you mentioned, Gay is a downgrade, Madison and Mundy need to disappear, and i dont know who Williams is. That leaves us only 6 players with real potential, counting Will Allen.

you're arguement is flawed. you say there may be 6 db's on the field at a time so it's more important to upgrade that... WHAT!!! for a handful of snaps we should reach for a guy? you ralize that, even though there are only three interior O lineman, they are on the field for EVERY snap! not just a handful of situations!

In the 'pass happy' NFL, there are more than a handful of play where you need 5 or 6 DBs. So my (admittedly unclear) point was that, barring injuries, we rely on our backup DBs more often than the backup Olinemen. We seemed to be particularly bad in those situations last year, esp when Troy went down. So that indicates to me that we didnt have the quality depth. On the other hand, the O had a statistically good year which means to me that the Oline functioned more adequately as a unit.

Getting a top DB will not only resolve the hole in the starting lineup, we will have better players in the game in nickel and dime.

Getting a top OG will only improve one position where the backups (hopefully) never get in the game.

For that reason, I would guess we fill another area of need with our first pick and give the RG position to the winner of Urbik/Foster/Essex in camp.

ps...Pouncey or Iupati would be more of a reach at 18 than say Thomas or Wilson. So who said we would be reaching?

[birtikidis]

Re: Who's going to be our RG next year?

[quote=Discipline of Steel]

Its true Chadman, we have players at every position and the draft goal should be to grab whatever quality players fall to us, with a few positions in mind. I agree interior OL should be a prioritized unit as well as defensive backfield. The reason I put a little more emphasis on DBs is because there can sometimes be up to 6 on the field at a time and if one guy sucks, he will get picked on. There are never more than 3 interior lineman on the field ever, so we dont need as much quality depth there.

Speaking of depth, at least there is still hope for Essex, Legursky, Foster, and Urbik to become good players, only Hartwig needs to move on soon. Out of the Dbs you mentioned, Gay is a downgrade, Madison and Mundy need to disappear, and i dont know who Williams is. That leaves us only 6 players with real potential, counting Will Allen.

you're arguement is flawed. you say there may be 6 db's on the field at a time so it's more important to upgrade that... WHAT!!! for a handful of snaps we should reach for a guy? you ralize that, even though there are only three interior O lineman, they are on the field for EVERY snap! not just a handful of situations!

In the 'pass happy' NFL, there are more than a handful of play where you need 5 or 6 DBs. So my (admittedly unclear) point was that, barring injuries, we rely on our backup DBs more often than the backup Olinemen. We seemed to be particularly bad in those situations last year, esp when Troy went down. So that indicates to me that we didnt have the quality depth. On the other hand, the O had a statistically good year which means to me that the Oline functioned more adequately as a unit.

Getting a top DB will not only resolve the hole in the starting lineup, we will have better players in the game in nickel and dime.

Getting a top OG will only improve one position where the backups (hopefully) never get in the game.[/quote:kqqvhgs4]
my problem isn't with the backups. it's with the starters. starting interior lineman are on the field every play. and dn't for a minute try to tell me that we run a nickel or dime more than our base defense (which only has two safeties and two corners). and btw none of our db's rated as the worst at their position (the way hartwig did).