That 4th and 1 against Jags in our last game

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

I was reading something about Haley's barfy play calling, and this video was shown as an example - 4th and 1 late in the game from about the Jags 20 yard line. Haley calls a pitch out end around to Bell, he got hit in the backfield and swallowed up for a 4 yard loss:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqQkYXRhA5g&feature=player_embedded

The point the author was making was - why call that play? Presumably he would have been more in favor of maybe having Nix blast a hole straight up the middle for Bell, or something like that.

But after looking at the play, our blocking was so bad we weren't going to get that 1 yard no matter what the call was. Horrible execution!

Looks like Pouncey made a block worse than a storefront mannequin would have made, more like lying down and taking a nap than throwing a block. Of course his man hopped over him and made the tackle 4 yards in the backfield ... along with another Jag who Vance McDonald was a step and a half late to block because he took a wrong angle ... because he went to block the wrong guy first!!

It doesn't matter how good our D is, or how many weapons Ben has (or, what the play call is) ... with execution like that we go nowhere but home - just like we did. Poor poor execution. My point isn't to stick up for any specific play calling, but just to say that after watching that it really hit home that until players are beating their man 1-on-1, there's no way to expect to come out on top, no matter what the play call is.

I don't know ... does this stuff happen often, and you just hope the Steelers come out on the winning end of more of these plays than the other team does? Or is what's on that tape completely off the charts bad?


Man, that is tough to watch!!

[Buzz]

Almost as bad as watching our defensive collapse in that game.

https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/Board/103198/Contents/A-defensive-film-study-Div-Playoffs-118172461

[pittpete]

QB sneak and not waiting until 1 second left on the play clock may have helped.

[Steel Maniac]

Our defense gave up 17 points in the 4th qtr. Making Bortles look like Brady in the process. That's why we were sent home.

But my coach said it was all Haley's fault; That damn 45 points he cooked up was just so terrible. But the 48 (17 in the 4th qtr.) Butler gave up was okay.

Damn that Haley.

[Shoe]

Our defense gave up 17 points in the 4th qtr. Making Bortles look like Brady in the process. That's why we were sent home.

But my coach said it was all Haley's fault; That damn 45 points he cooked up was just so terrible. But the 48 (17 in the 4th qtr.) Butler gave up was okay.

Damn that Haley.

Yeah, but he put up 45 with Roethlisberger, Brown, Bell, Bryant, Schuster, and a studly O-line, in 2018 NFL (i.e. 45 is the new 30). Bortles putting up 48 would be like letting Mark Malone drop 30 on you (i.e. inexcusable).

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

Yeah, but he put up 45 with Roethlisberger, Brown, Bell, Bryant, Schuster, and a studly O-line, in 2018 NFL (i.e. 45 is the new 30). Bortles putting up 48 would be like letting Mark Malone drop 30 on you (i.e. inexcusable).

O-line didn't look so studly on that last play :(

[Steelhere10]

Our defense gave up 17 points in the 4th qtr. Making Bortles look like Brady in the process. That's why we were sent home.

But my coach said it was all Haley's fault; That damn 45 points he cooked up was just so terrible. But the 48 (17 in the 4th qtr.) Butler gave up was okay.

Damn that Haley.

If you can't read between the lines then shame on you! Haley being fired was all on Ben but you seems to Blame Tomlin for going to the restroom, but good luck, maybe one day he will get fired or quit.

[feltdizz]

Terrible play call. Pretty sure this call got Haley fired.

Defense knew it was coming and even if we ran up the middle they would've prolly ate it up.

[Sword]

I was at the game...one of the worst play calls I have ever seen...made no sense...I knew, in my gut they new Bell was going to get it the ball and he was going to get squashed.....

[Eich]

Terrible play call. Pretty sure this call got Haley fired.

Defense knew it was coming and even if we ran up the middle they would've prolly ate it up.

Is there any call that if unsuccessful, would have been considered a good call, not getting Haley fired?

[Ghost]

Terrible play call. Pretty sure this call got Haley fired.

Defense knew it was coming and even if we ran up the middle they would've prolly ate it up.

I think this was one of 2 calls/plays (or lack thereof) that was the end of Haley. The other was immediately following the overturn of James' TD against the Pats. Ben and Haley's relationship was so deteriorated by then that they didn't even speak the entire time during the long review and thus didn't have a play to call when ruled not a TD. It's inexcusable. And turned into an unprofessional mess.

[feltdizz]

Is there any call that if unsuccessful, would have been considered a good call, not getting Haley fired?

QB sneak.

I will never be mad at an OC calling a QB sneak and not getting it because the D wanted it more.

Unless it’s a QB draw.. lol.

[feltdizz]

I think this was one of 2 calls/plays (or lack thereof) that was the end of Haley. The other was immediately following the overturn of James' TD against the Pats. Ben and Haley's relationship was so deteriorated by then that they didn't even speak the entire time during the long review and thus didn't have a play to call when ruled not a TD. It's inexcusable. And turned into an unprofessional mess.

yes. The whole play sequence after the overturn was dumb as hell.

No Bryant and no Bell on those last 2 plays. Dude actually called a pass play underneath to DHB.

[Slapstick]

yes. The whole play sequence after the overturn was dumb as hell.

No Bryant and no Bell on those last 2 plays. Dude actually called a pass play underneath to DHB.

I think it went to Eli Rogers...

And, even worse, Rogers was held on the play:

http://www.steelcityunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/2017_POTG_RegWk15_DEF-WilliamsINT.00_00_07_03.Still009-1024x512.jpg

[feltdizz]

No, the play before that was a WR drag to DHB that gained maybe 1 yard. Terrible play call.

[SteelBucks]

Aloha from the Big Island. Leave for home tomorrow. Booo.

Now to the point of conversation. Bad blocking, terrible play call. If we can’t get a yard with a 6’5” QB then we don’t deserve to win. This was just one call in a series of calls that had me shaking my head during that game.

[Eich]

QB sneak.

I will never be mad at an OC calling a QB sneak and not getting it because the D wanted it more.

Unless it’s a QB draw.. lol.

I agree. And I think Ben agrees. But Haley was on record, stating to the media, that the team doesn't like QB sneaks because they'd like to avoid their franchise QB getting "Ear-holed". When he said that, I got the feeling that Haley was instructed to avoid QB sneaks. We know Haley was brought in to protect Ben more than Arians did. So who knows, maybe Haley was told by Rooney to keep Ben out of harm's way.

I'm not really defending Haley's play calling in general. But I do wonder if Haley was told that he shouldn't run plays like the QB sneak.

[Steel Maniac]

Funny, Brady doesn't worry about getting ear-holed. Just random thoughts.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Aloha from the Big Island. Leave for home tomorrow. Booo.

Wait...you opted to take a vacation to Hawaii's Big Island in the middle of an active volcanic eruption on Hawaii's Big Island?

[feltdizz]

I agree. And I think Ben agrees. But Haley was on record, stating to the media, that the team doesn't like QB sneaks because they'd like to avoid their franchise QB getting "Ear-holed". When he said that, I got the feeling that Haley was instructed to avoid QB sneaks. We know Haley was brought in to protect Ben more than Arians did. So who knows, maybe Haley was told by Rooney to keep Ben out of harm's way.

I'm not really defending Haley's play calling in general. But I do wonder if Haley was told that he shouldn't run plays like the QB sneak.

IMO this didn't make any damn sense. How many QB's get ear holed on QB sneaks? I could see if it was a QB draw (like Ben said he asked to do but was shot down by Tomlin) but a QB sneak isn't a risky call.

IMO that's something an OC likes to say when they want to run their little gadget plays or maybe Ben doesn't like to run the QB sneak.

I think it's the latter because anyone with his experience doesn't need permission to run a QB sneak. Hell, I bet my house Ben didn't have permission to throw that dumb ass pass in traffic on the fake spike play to Eli over the middle but he ran it anyway.

[Steel Maniac]

Wait...you opted to take a vacation to Hawaii's Big Island in the middle of an active volcanic eruption on Hawaii's Big Island?

Thrill seeker.

[squidkid]

why didnt tomlin overrule that play call?

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

why didnt tomlin overrule that play call?


That is a good question, I'm sure the answer's been posted/printed somewhere, no?

[Buzz]

why didnt tomlin overrule that play call?

Not sure some on here would ever assign any blame for that to Tomlin, after all, he's only the head coach.

[Slapstick]

Despite the fact that he’s the head coach, he can’t match your genius...

[Buzz]

Despite the fact that he’s the head coach, he can’t match your genius...
????
Don't have to be a genius to recognize and overrule a bad call.

[SteelBucks]

Wait...you opted to take a vacation to Hawaii's Big Island in the middle of an active volcanic eruption on Hawaii's Big Island?

Probably not the smartest thing we’ve ever done. We saw the volcano up close the day before they closed down the park and we got a little concerned when it started raining ash on our rental car. Looks like we got out of there just in time.

[feltdizz]

????
Don't have to be a genius to recognize and overrule a bad call.

no one gets a pass for that play call...

it was terrible.

[squidkid]

no one gets a pass for that play call...

it was terrible.

wow, thanks for being honest here.

[Slapstick]

He’s always honest.

[squidkid]

He’s always honest.

i do remember him calling you an a-hole once, so i guess you are right.

[Slapstick]

i guess you are right.

wow, thanks for being honest here.

[feltdizz]

wow, thanks for being honest here.

I'm always honest.

It's redundant to bash Tomlin when we are criticizing the OC or DC.

It all falls under the Tomlin umbrella. He gets the praise when we win and the blame when we lose.

Criticize players and coaches isn't shifting blame.

[Buzz]

It's redundant to bash Tomlin when we are criticizing the OC or DC.

It all falls under the Tomlin umbrella. He gets the praise when we win and the blame when we lose.



LOL. With some on this board, Tomlin gets NONE of the blame when we lose; others here can say nothing GOOD about him, even when we win.

[feltdizz]

LOL. With some on this board, Tomlin gets NONE of the blame when we lose; others here can say nothing GOOD about him, even when we win.

That's true.. and not true. lol...

He has another L on his record whenever we lose.

I think when folks are discussing the game MOST of the talk is on players who didn't play well. Sure, one can blame Tomlin for not preparing them but since we win at a high clip, it makes more sense to blame players or certain plays that change the tide of a game.

Can we really dog Tomlin out when we see Ben throw 5 INT's or see Pouncey get blown up on a key play?

He definitely deserves blame for the defense though, even with Shazier we have seen them play subpar on D. Plus we now know he has more input on D so it's well deserved.

[Slapstick]

For some people, if you don't demand that Tomlin be fired after every loss, that somehow means you think "he can do no wrong"...

[feltdizz]

For some people, if you don't demand that Tomlin be fired after every loss, that somehow means you think "he can do no wrong"...

this too..lol

[RuthlessBurgher]

Probably not the smartest thing we’ve ever done. We saw the volcano up close the day before they closed down the park and we got a little concerned when it started raining ash on our rental car. Looks like we got out of there just in time.

Considering this is in the news today, I'd say yeah...just in time.

Summit of Hawaii's Kilauea volcano erupts, sending plume of ash and smoke 30,000 feet high


https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/17/us/hawaii-kilauea-volcano/index.html

[Ghost]

Probably not the smartest thing we’ve ever done. We saw the volcano up close the day before they closed down the park and we got a little concerned when it started raining ash on our rental car. Looks like we got out of there just in time.

8 years ago Mrs. Ghost and I were in Dublin, Ireland when the volcano blew in Iceland and no planes could take off b/c the ash in the air could cause them to crash. We got stuck in Dublin for a few extra days (which sounds good except it's not free and we were out of cloths). Be glad no flights were grounded. It was chaos in Europe when that happened.

[NorthCoast]

That's true.. and not true. lol...

He has another L on his record whenever we lose.

I think when folks are discussing the game MOST of the talk is on players who didn't play well. Sure, one can blame Tomlin for not preparing them but since we win at a high clip, it makes more sense to blame players or certain plays that change the tide of a game.

Can we really dog Tomlin out when we see Ben throw 5 INT's or see Pouncey get blown up on a key play?

He definitely deserves blame for the defense though, even with Shazier we have seen them play subpar on D. Plus we now know he has more input on D so it's well deserved.After a period of time a coach's record speaks for itself. The Steelers win with enough consistency that you have to say Tomlin's system works and is sustainable.

and he has been winning with his players, not Cowher's.

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

After a period of time a coach's record speaks for itself. The Steelers win with enough consistency that you have to say Tomlin's system works and is sustainable.

and he has been winning with his players, not Cowher's.

All true, but can't we say the other side of that token also speaks for itself - he's pretty consistent at losing a few against bottom feeders each year, putting us in a much tougher spot come the post season?

[squidkid]

After a period of time a coach's record speaks for itself. The Steelers win with enough consistency that you have to say Tomlin's system works and is sustainable.

and he has been winning with his players, not Cowher's.


yes, in the regular season

[feltdizz]

All true, but can't we say the other side of that token also speaks for itself - he's pretty consistent at losing a few against bottom feeders each year, putting us in a much tougher spot come the post season?

We have a few ugly losses but overall his record against is good vs losing teams.

[RuthlessBurgher]

yes, in the regular season

It's not like Cowher was ever known for losing AFC Championship games at home to underdog teams year after year...oh wait.

[squidkid]

It's not like Cowher was ever known for losing AFC Championship games at home to underdog teams year after year...oh wait.


so, what does that have to do with tomlin?
cowher got blasted plenty for those losses.

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

Assuming the consensus is that the 4th and1 call was a bad one ... seems to me it is on Tomlin's shoulders for not putting the nix nix on Haley's call as soon as he was aware of it.

Just like the last play against the **s in the regular season (that crazy pass play that got intercepted).

He *was* aware of the calls on the field, right??

I wonder if he gets report cards/performance reports and gets spanked by AR just like he would do to his coordinators. Does it wait till the end of the year, or does he get called in after a bad game and asked, "WHAT were you guys doing??".

Inquiring minds want to know!

[Northern_Blitz]

We have a few ugly losses but overall his record against is good vs losing teams.

Yep. BB lost to Miami this year. That doesn't make him a bad coach.

When you're consistently a good team, you're "expected" to win almost every week. Then, when you don't win you lost to an "inferior team".

The truth is that the difference between NFL teams probably isn't that big. Luck matters and sometimes you lose. I think when you say "Tomlin loses against bad teams" what you're really saying is that "Tomlin's teams are always expected to be good". That's kind of where I want us to be.

[Northern_Blitz]

Assuming the consensus is that the 4th and1 call was a bad one ... seems to me it is on Tomlin's shoulders for not putting the nix nix on Haley's call as soon as he was aware of it.

Just like the last play against the **s in the regular season (that crazy pass play that got intercepted).

He *was* aware of the calls on the field, right??

I wonder if he gets report cards/performance reports and gets spanked by AR just like he would do to his coordinators. Does it wait till the end of the year, or does he get called in after a bad game and asked, "WHAT were you guys doing??".

Inquiring minds want to know!

It seems like I'm in the minority, but I think that the 4th and short calls against the Jags were reasonable (or at least not unreasonable).

I do think that the end of the Pats game was a horrible display of coaching (and execution). I expected our O to be prepared in that situation (especially given the time they had to prepare). I think it's why Haley got fired and I hope it's something that Tomlin reflects on a lot (with or without Rooney talking to him).