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Thread: So James Pierre is going to be there other starting Cornerback?

  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Sure ... his team collapses and he escapes almost all the blame, but he deserves the lion's share of the credit for any good players who happen to play under him.

    Sounds completely reasonable.
    FWIW, I don't think he deserves the blame he gets from some. I think players lose games.

    But I also don't think he shouldn't get all the credit for the players being good...especially the elite players.

    I think there are arguments for the coaching staff getting the most out of guys like Ike and Hilton. But I wonder if it's more that we found a good role for them given what they were vs. that we coached them into something they weren't.

    I don't know much about Barber, but Lemming makes a good case that maybe he's a guy like Ike and Hilton above.

  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Wait...you just said GM does all the drafting? Make up your mind dude.

    As far as "stealing" players?
    Where did Minkah excel? Sure not the fins. Day ONE star with us.
    Nelson had his best career season BY FAR as a Steeler.
    Haden went from Browns cast off to a return to perennial pro Bowler.

    You wanna talk scrubs like Burns that we drafted?

    When Burn or Davis are let go and they excel under different coaching...come back and tell me about it.

    We had a top 5 pass defense with BOTH Burns and Davis starting 16 games each dude. They are so bad they can't even get snaps on other teams.

    Just about every Tomlin era Steeler secondary player who played on another team had the best seasons of their career as a Steeler.

    Why is that?
    To help you out a bit, when you have the best pass rush in the NFL and produce the best pressure on the QB it's a bit easier playing DB.

    Minkah was an excellent player who the Dolphins thought would net they a high first round pick.

    Haden was a cap move and a bad one by the Browns.

    Nelson was soooo good the Steelers let him go for nothing.
    Last edited by Joel Buchsbaum; 06-15-2021 at 10:05 AM.
    Plan to spend 75 million in cap space in 2022 ( most in the NFL ) and use the 2 comp picks ( 3rd and 5th ) for a killer 2022 draft. We will be back hopefully with better coaching.

  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Sure ... his team collapses and he escapes almost all the blame, but he deserves the lion's share of the credit for any good players who happen to play under him.

    Sounds completely reasonable.
    The late season collapses in the last few years is a coaching concern in my opinion. And Tomlin and staff were definitely outcoached in the playoff game on the defensive side. My opinion they addressed the cause of the late season offensive woes. The rest needs TBD this season.

  4. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Rhonde Barber 4 pre-Tomlim seasons in 4 picks.

    Year 1 AT (after Tomlin) TEN picks...one season. Why?

    Don't take my word, ask Rhonde himself.

    2001 article from the year a young Tomlin arrived to coach the Bucs secondary and Rhonde was making massive strides....becoming a star:

    Baber had one really good season, and after that had had two others seasons with just 2 picks each, same as he produced before. Yeah, I'll agree Tomlin had him in his best years, when guys like Sapp, Lynch, and Brooks were in their prime. The funny part is Tomlin calls Brooks the best player he coached. Sorry Mikey, you didn't coach him.
    Plan to spend 75 million in cap space in 2022 ( most in the NFL ) and use the 2 comp picks ( 3rd and 5th ) for a killer 2022 draft. We will be back hopefully with better coaching.

  5. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Buchsbaum View Post
    To help you out a bit, when you have the best pass rush i the NFL and produce the best pressure on the QB it's a bit easier playing DB.

    Minkah was an excellent player who the Dolphins thought would net they a high first round pick.

    Haden was a cap move and a bad one by the Browns.

    Nelson was soooo good the Steelers let him go for nothing.
    Not sure what you thought you were helping him out with? The point is their best days were or are played under Mike Tomlin. Why do you think that is? And Why do you think we have such a good pass rush? Sounds like good coaching to me.

  6. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Buchsbaum View Post
    To help you out a bit, when you have the best pass rush i the NFL and produce the best pressure on the QB it's a bit easier playing DB.
    So we schemed a pass rush that counters deficiency at corner?
    It's called "coaching".

    Minkah was an excellent player who the Dolphins thought would net they a high first round pick.
    He was an EXCELLENT college player the fins did not know what to do with. WE IMMEDIATELY put him into positions to make plays...coaching.

    Haden was a cap move and a bad one by the Browns.
    Does look that way in hindsight. Because of what he is doing AS A STEELER.

    Nelson was soooo good the Steelers let him go for nothing.
    Well he was a KC reject that WE made look better than he actually is. Clearly we have COACHED UP Sutton to the point we don't need him.
    Does not negate the fact that he had BY FAR his best season as a Steeler.

  7. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Buchsbaum View Post
    Baber had one really good season, and after that had had two others seasons with just 2 picks each, same as he produced before.
    It is what happens when people FEAR YOU Joel. Next season QBs were throwing at receivers who were COVERED for fear of a 4.68 Rhonde. Same way Deon Sanders made Larry Brown a SB MVP. Result? Tampa has 40 picks en-route to the SB. Fewer picks for Rhonde was a fine sacrifice.

    Yeah, I'll agree Tomlin had him in his best years, when guys like Sapp, Lynch, and Brooks were in their prime. The funny part is Tomlin calls Brooks the best player he coached. Sorry Mikey, you didn't coach him.
    And you know Tomlin never coached Brooks how?

    Watch the man's HOF speech. He thanks Tomlin BY NAME my friend.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 06-14-2021 at 02:22 PM.

  8. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    FWIW, I don't think he deserves the blame he gets from some. I think players lose games.

    But I also don't think he shouldn't get all the credit for the players being good...especially the elite players.

    I think there are arguments for the coaching staff getting the most out of guys like Ike and Hilton. But I wonder if it's more that we found a good role for them given what they were vs. that we coached them into something they weren't.

    I don't know much about Barber, but Lemming makes a good case that maybe he's a guy like Ike and Hilton above.
    But aren’t most coaches getting credit for their elite players being elite and putting them in the best position to succeed?

    Tomlin is bashed by most detractors for not having more SB’s or playoff wins because he has Ben. Regardless of how Ben plays people suggest it should be easy money because Ben is a HOFer.

    Coaching is about managing your elite players and meshing it with lesser talent and maximizing it all to get the most out of a team.

    When Ben was out in 2019 or had his 4 game suspension and everyone predicted doom.. and we almost made the playoffs and went 3-1 in those first 4 games.
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


  9. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    But aren’t most coaches getting credit for their elite players being elite and putting them in the best position to succeed?

    Tomlin is bashed by most detractors for not having more SB’s or playoff wins because he has Ben. Regardless of how Ben plays people suggest it should be easy money because Ben is a HOFer.

    Coaching is about managing your elite players and meshing it with lesser talent and maximizing it all to get the most out of a team.

    When Ben was out in 2019 or had his 4 game suspension and everyone predicted doom.. and we almost made the playoffs and went 3-1 in those first 4 games.
    I guess I don't really think so.

    I think Troy would have been great on any team.

    Ben too. Probably TJ too.

    The difficulty to me in coaching a team with Ben (and TJ soon) is that their contracts will be so big that you will have to be making chicken salad at other positions where you don't have good starters, or good depth.

    I suppose there are guys like Harrison. He was an elite player by the end. And I think he probably was helped by coaching. But I wonder how much of that coaching was between the lines and how much of it was on general personality stuff.

    And for all the many that believe Tomlin isn't an Xs and Os person, he's clearly good at the interpersonal / mentorship part of coaching.

    That's probably my biggest reason for hope for a guy like Haskins.

  10. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    I guess I don't really think so.

    I think Troy would have been great on any team.

    Ben too. Probably TJ too.

    The difficulty to me in coaching a team with Ben (and TJ soon) is that their contracts will be so big that you will have to be making chicken salad at other positions where you don't have good starters, or good depth.

    I suppose there are guys like Harrison. He was an elite player by the end. And I think he probably was helped by coaching. But I wonder how much of that coaching was between the lines and how much of it was on general personality stuff.

    And for all the many that believe Tomlin isn't an Xs and Os person, he's clearly good at the interpersonal / mentorship part of coaching.

    That's probably my biggest reason for hope for a guy like Haskins.
    You hire coordinators for Xs and Os. You hire head coaches for Leadership and setting a culture.

    Generals don't teach soldiers basic marksmanship or how to maneuver. They provide a vision of the operations and set the parameters within which a mission is executed. They then inspire through leadership.
    Taking pride in the fact that I'm right so often and he is wrong so often, that Steel Maniac has to have me on "Ignore"

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