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Thread: Why fans don't like this draft.

  1. #81
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    But Northern_Blitz,

    You can't take the "win now" out of it. They gave Ben a new contract to "win now". If not, then why hang on to a guy who clearly is in his last year?
    From the 2010-2020 season, (A 10 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks.

    Dolphin fans in the 90ís who wanted to hold on to Don Shula for what he did in the playoffs in the 70ís...
    Are the same as Steeler fans (of 2020 ) holding on to Tomlin for what he did in 2008, with Cowher's players & coaches

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    But Northern_Blitz,

    You can't take the "win now" out of it. They gave Ben a new contract to "win now". If not, then why hang on to a guy who clearly is in his last year?
    That's why I don't like the 2nd round pick.

    But it is what it is and I hope he and Green are amazing.

    We'll see what happens when they play.


  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Found one guys take on the Loudermilk pick...actually makes some sense:

    (5) Isaiahh Loudermilk, DE Wisconsin. The team should get three comp picks next year, so they tossed their 2022 fourth to get into the 5th round this year. I like the strategy but this doesn't help them win this year - he isn't ready. Long frame, moves well, high motor, but not explosive, doesn't have good strength; good hand use but very poor with positioning. Needs work but we're looking to the future here. This is a depth/developmental signing - next year's crop of D-linemen don't seem very promising after the second round (and in the first two rounds things like QB, OT, and CB will probably be bigger needs) and they're banking that a year of coaching and training will have him looking better next year than anything they could have snagged in the 2022 third or fourth. The coaching said "this is a guy we can work on" and they got him. I'm fine with it and easily see how they justified it. Has most of the recipe, needs to cook, and Heyward isn't getting younger.
    the Steelers saw something in him they liked and can afford to develop him for a year.

    makes sense, Tuitt and Heyward aren't getting any younger.
    Steel Maniac predicted no RBs would be chosen in the 1st round, so of course we selected:

    1(24) Najee Harris RB Alabama


  4. #84
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    Another factor on RB vs LT for pick 1 was brought up today. That's the 5th yr option. I don't think it is a stretch to say the 5th yr option for a LT would far exceed any RB option. Maybe Khan pointed this out to Colbert &Co and made the choice easier.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Another factor on RB vs LT for pick 1 was brought up today. That's the 5th yr option. I don't think it is a stretch to say the 5th yr option for a LT would far exceed any RB option. Maybe Khan pointed this out to Colbert &Co and made the choice easier.
    That's an interesting angle.

    Maybe the flip side is that it's probably harder for a young player to make the probowl at LT because name recognition on the OL seems to be super important for votes?

    5th year option (and then the tag for a year or two) shouldn't be too expensive for RB if current cap values hold. Could get up to 7 years of Harris year to year commitments in the last 3 years.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    That's an interesting angle.

    Maybe the flip side is that it's probably harder for a young player to make the probowl at LT because name recognition on the OL seems to be super important for votes?
    Do you mean Pouncey and DD weren't deserving of their votes last season?

    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 05-04-2021 at 02:25 PM.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    But Northern_Blitz,

    You can't take the "win now" out of it. They gave Ben a new contract to "win now". If not, then why hang on to a guy who clearly is in his last year?
    While in theory it would seem that bringing Ben back commits the team into a win now mode, the way it happened suggests that the focus is not strictly on 2021. Due to Ben accepting a pay cut, the cap charge this season is only minimally greater than it would have been had they let him go. In the meantime, we can assume that the team does not believe that they have their heir apparent waiting in the wings. At least not one who is ready this season. If Ben balls out and shows he can continue then you re-sign him. If not you let him go and his dead cap hit is a less crippling $10.34M.

    At that point you have the options of Rudolph, Haskins, and a 2022 first round pick. If the team tanks and the first rounder is in the top half, we could be looking at a year one starter quality QB. That QB would have an offense with hopefully a decent OL (Moore-?-Green-Dotson-Banner/Chuks), a young RB, and a young receiving corps that includes the safety valve of a talented young TE and receiving back.

    On D you have an aging but effective line, two stud linebackers and a good young kid, and a Dbackfield with one stud, one certified starter in Sutton, and whoever else can stick.

    That does not account for those who will be added between the end of the season and next year, when there should be more money and flexibility to make more moves to plug some holes as needed.

    In the end, I guess my point is that commiting to Ben in 2021 is not at the expense of 2022 and beyond.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Do you mean Pouncey and DD weren't deserving of their votes last season?

    Awesome that in that picture "Vox" (translates to "voice") is telling people to shut up.

    That seems typical of my understanding of the ethos of that group of sites.

    I know that this has nothing to do with your post, but thought the irony was kind of funny.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by steeler_fan_in_t.o. View Post
    While in theory it would seem that bringing Ben back commits the team into a win now mode, the way it happened suggests that the focus is not strictly on 2021. Due to Ben accepting a pay cut, the cap charge this season is only minimally greater than it would have been had they let him go. In the meantime, we can assume that the team does not believe that they have their heir apparent waiting in the wings. At least not one who is ready this season. If Ben balls out and shows he can continue then you re-sign him. If not you let him go and his dead cap hit is a less crippling $10.34M.

    At that point you have the options of Rudolph, Haskins, and a 2022 first round pick. If the team tanks and the first rounder is in the top half, we could be looking at a year one starter quality QB. That QB would have an offense with hopefully a decent OL (Moore-?-Green-Dotson-Banner/Chuks), a young RB, and a young receiving corps that includes the safety valve of a talented young TE and receiving back.

    On D you have an aging but effective line, two stud linebackers and a good young kid, and a Dbackfield with one stud, one certified starter in Sutton, and whoever else can stick.

    That does not account for those who will be added between the end of the season and next year, when there should be more money and flexibility to make more moves to plug some holes as needed.

    In the end, I guess my point is that commiting to Ben in 2021 is not at the expense of 2022 and beyond.
    I think pushing the dead money again kind of means that it is at the expense of the future.

    Or maybe more reasonably, it's trying to find how much of the future we want to mortgage for one last shot at competing now.

    If we were all now, we wouldn't have pushed for Ben to cut his pay (which mostly affected his cap hit in 2022).

    If we were all about the future, we would have forced (?) Ben to retire (or play it out) and absorb the enormous cap hit all this year. Suck in the short term, try to keep as much of the younger guys as we can, and hope to bounce back with a good draft.

    I don't think our choice was unreasonable, but it's a tough balancing act to try to win now and set up the rebuild.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    I think pushing the dead money again kind of means that it is at the expense of the future.

    Or maybe more reasonably, it's trying to find how much of the future we want to mortgage for one last shot at competing now.

    If we were all now, we wouldn't have pushed for Ben to cut his pay (which mostly affected his cap hit in 2022).

    If we were all about the future, we would have forced (?) Ben to retire (or play it out) and absorb the enormous cap hit all this year. Suck in the short term, try to keep as much of the younger guys as we can, and hope to bounce back with a good draft.

    I don't think our choice was unreasonable, but it's a tough balancing act to try to win now and set up the rebuild.
    I agree that just having Ben back indicates that we are not yet stepping into the future, but it also is not holding us back significantly from competing. Sure, not kicking $10M into next season would be better than doing it, but it is not like it kept the team from keeping a significant piece or from developing the next Aaron Rodgers behind Brett Favre. Maybe the team could have kept Nelson with that extra $4M difference this season, but Nelson was entering his final season and I don't think that Nelson/Rudolph would give you a better chance at a SB than Ben/Layne or Pierre.

    Next season you are $10M behind, but this team uses the next year bank on a regular basis so it is no surprise that they would for the year that they expect Ben to retire. I also believe that the Ben contract was a compromise to a franchise legend and the team would not do it any other way. I said at the time that once Ben came out and said that I expected him to take a cut and the team would spread out the hit. The team is left in position to still compete once Ben retires, as soon as they find their next franchise guy. That did not look like it was the case 4 months ago.

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