Page 8 of 10 FirstFirst ... 678910 LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 93

Thread: Why fans don't like this draft.

  1. #71
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Found one guys take on the Loudermilk pick...actually makes some sense:

    (5) Isaiahh Loudermilk, DE Wisconsin. The team should get three comp picks next year, so they tossed their 2022 fourth to get into the 5th round this year. I like the strategy but this doesn't help them win this year - he isn't ready. Long frame, moves well, high motor, but not explosive, doesn't have good strength; good hand use but very poor with positioning. Needs work but we're looking to the future here. This is a depth/developmental signing - next year's crop of D-linemen don't seem very promising after the second round (and in the first two rounds things like QB, OT, and CB will probably be bigger needs) and they're banking that a year of coaching and training will have him looking better next year than anything they could have snagged in the 2022 third or fourth. The coaching said "this is a guy we can work on" and they got him. I'm fine with it and easily see how they justified it. Has most of the recipe, needs to cook, and Heyward isn't getting younger.

  2. #72
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    Re: me putting words in your mouth

    I believe you said Creed would be a bust in Pit because he wasn't as athletic as Green.

    Wouldn't that mean the difference in athleticism was significant? The difference between making it and being a bust seems important to me.

    Re: you putting words in my mouth.

    If Green doesn't make it at C, I think it will mostly be because he hasn't really played C. Not because he isn't athletic enough. Maybe because he's not tall enough if that extra inch or so actually matters.

    I don't care much about the weight. Maybe Green just cut more so his 40 time was higher. Guys game the exercises all the time.

    That's why I think the tape is important. And why I think having only a few games with him at C makes the pick more of a risk.

    We'll see what happens in camp. Hopefully it is a full slate of activities for the rookies so they all get as many reps as possible because I think we really want significant contributions from these guys.


    Weirdly, I think these guys are kinda similar. Creed is more the more polished, day one ready guy. He also has more prototype size, but at the line position where size matters least.

    But I will start a thread on a theme I believe they are pursuing in this draft that favors Green for what THEY are clearly trying to achieve.

    They are chasing NASTY. They are looking to restore our image of toughness. They recognize our offense had become soft.

    Green is straight up violent. When you look at tape of the two you see that difference. He has a bully vibe about him. After taking one guy out dude is quick to look to destroy someone else.

    Creed is more of what we've had and that was athletic and polish center. That is highly coveted.

    Green represents what we are building. A house of nasty. Their actual abilities as extremely athletic centers appear similar.

    Would we take Creed if he lasted? Maybe. But we might have seen them as extremely close, especially with what we are looking to achieve in demeanor.

    Add to that a tight end that might win the job by seasons end and be the next Heath?

    There is a VERY compelling case for the route they chose.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 05-04-2021 at 08:52 AM.

  3. #73
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    On Loudermilk, the Steelers could very well have been looking ahead. Tuitt has one more year after this season. I doubt he sees another contract at his age. But it is curious why they targeted Loudermilk as interesting enough to trade for him. Gotta hope the scouts eyes were right with him.

    The other thing is I'm not sure how important biometric data is for lineman as long as they meet some mimimun qualifying NFL level. I posted one study that suggested arm length for OL isn't all that critical in predicting PFF ratings. Now it certainly could be PFF's rating system is biased or flawed. Also could be interactions with weight, height, etc.

    One thing for sure, it will make for some interesting watching as these guys work there way to the roster.
    But remember, the criteria and metrics they use are meaningless to my point. Being able to control blockers is not a quantifiable metric that they use to rate a player. But it CAN be seen on film if you are looking for it.

    In that light the potential they see in this pick is much more understandable. It is the only explanation of why we wanted him so bad.

  4. #74
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Might this be a more apt comparison?

    1. A Hartings caliber (not type, just caliber) guard convert center, plus a Heath Miller type decade tight end.
    Or
    2. Just career pro bowl caliber center like Pouncey?

    What has more value?

  5. #75
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Found one guys take on the Loudermilk pick...actually makes some sense:

    (5) Isaiahh Loudermilk, DE Wisconsin. The team should get three comp picks next year, so they tossed their 2022 fourth to get into the 5th round this year. I like the strategy but this doesn't help them win this year - he isn't ready. Long frame, moves well, high motor, but not explosive, doesn't have good strength; good hand use but very poor with positioning. Needs work but we're looking to the future here. This is a depth/developmental signing - next year's crop of D-linemen don't seem very promising after the second round (and in the first two rounds things like QB, OT, and CB will probably be bigger needs) and they're banking that a year of coaching and training will have him looking better next year than anything they could have snagged in the 2022 third or fourth. The coaching said "this is a guy we can work on" and they got him. I'm fine with it and easily see how they justified it. Has most of the recipe, needs to cook, and Heyward isn't getting younger.
    Again, with Smith and Beard. They gained weight and strength after being drafted. Team saw they had the frame to beef up.

  6. #76
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Again, with Smith and Beard. They gained weight and strength after being drafted. Team saw they had the frame to beef up.
    Right. (I was focused on the future supply/demand comment. Weak DL class next year and Tuitt, Alualu another year older, other needs more important. It's this look forward something that we fans don't always appreciate in the knee-jerk post draft.)

  7. #77
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Right. (I was focused on the future supply/demand comment. Weak DL class next year and Tuitt, Alualu another year older, other needs more important. It's this look forward something that we fans don't always appreciate in the knee-jerk post draft.)
    We saw them do exactly that with Kiesel. He sat behind Kimo and beefed up so that when Kimo was done he was ready to go.

    This is reminiscent of that. If he pans out it will save us from having to rebuild an entire Dline with premium picks as our guys are ALL older.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 05-04-2021 at 10:06 AM.

  8. #78
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Weirdly, I think these guys are kinda similar. Creed is more the more polished, day one ready guy. He also has more prototype size, but at the line position where size matters least.

    But I will start a thread on a theme I believe they are pursuing in this draft that favors Green for what THEY are clearly trying to achieve.

    They are chasing NASTY. They are looking to restore our image of toughness. They recognize our offense had become soft.

    Green is straight up violent. When you look at tape of the two you see that difference. He has a bully vibe about him. After taking one guy out dude is quick to look to destroy someone else.

    Creed is more of what we've had and that was athletic and polish center. That is highly coveted.

    Green represents what we are building. A house of nasty. Their actual abilities as extremely athletic centers appear similar.

    Would we take Creed if he lasted? Maybe. But we might have seen them as extremely close, especially with what we are looking to achieve in demeanor.

    Add to that a tight end that might win the job by seasons end and be the next Heath?

    There is a VERY compelling case for the route they chose.
    I think it might be that they wanted more nastiness. Lord knows we could have used some last year.

    But I don't think it drove either the 2nd or 3rd round picks.

    And they were never actually choosing between Humphrey and Green. Presumably just about everyone would choose Humphrey in that situation.

    2nd Round Pick

    I am assuming that we were picking between Freiermuth and Humphrey. I think this pick was based on our perception of BPA, not positional need (since C seems to clearly be a bigger need).

    I think they made this pick based on their perception of Freiermuth who they seemed to absolutely love at his pro-day. This may be because Alfredy Roberts seems to really, really, really like him.

    The other factor here is that I think they thought that C was a deep enough class that there would be guys that seem like they could compete for starting positions available in the 3rd (this turns out to be correct).

    Check out the quotes here: https://steelersdepot.com/2021/03/ne...th-at-pro-day/

    3rd Round Pick (tie goes to the guy who played)

    I assume that this pick was more needs based because they went BPA in the 2nd (and probably the 1st too). But we do have a hair on fire need at C, so it's time to get one. We passed on C last round because we thought there one would be there. We were right and I'm going to assume that the choices here are the next three interior OL that went off the board: Green / Cleveland / Meinerz. They are mostly guards, but "can he play center"?

    What about athleticism? All of these guys have good athleticism relative to others at their position (at least as measured by RAS): Green (9.23) / Cleveland (9.63) / Meinerz (9.98 ). This doesn't seem to be the metric we used to make the pick because we took the guy with the lowest (but still pretty good) score (mainly because of his height weight, average bench, and average agility). Cleveland had low agility scores, average explosion, and elite size and speed). Meinerz is short (but taller than Green), with an average shuttle time.
    Green: https://relativeathleticscores.com/r...PlayerID=19600
    Cleveland: https://relativeathleticscores.com/r...PlayerID=19347
    Meinerz: https://relativeathleticscores.com/r...PlayerID=19467

    What about experience? Maybe this is the metric we used at this point. Cleveland is probably a guard and not a center. Green has played 4 games at C. I believe Meinerz didn't play C in college, but did at the senior bowl.

    Let's eliminate Cleveland (we know the Steelers did, and I'm going to assume this is why). Also it seems like he was drafted to be a guard, Green will be a center with us (I assume), and it sounds like Meinerz might be a swing IOL.

    Nastiness: Between Green and Meinerz, who is nastier? This seems to kind of be the calling card for both of these guys. Maybe they think Green is nastier than Meinerz and that's why they went with him, but I think it's other factors.

    Competition: Green is from a Big 10 school, and Meinerz is from Wisconsin Whitewater. We know that Colbert and company like guys from big conferences for important picks. I'd guess Meinerz was dinged for this even though many were saying he looked good at the Senior Bowl.

    Did they play last year? Kevin Colbert said: "...if a player chooses to opt out, for whatever reason, it's their decision, and we respect it. However, if a player played in 2020, and those players are of equal value - one that didn't play and one that played - we'll take the one that played because we don't know what the opt-outs will be like in their first season back in football".
    Source: https://steelersdepot.com/2021/04/ke...this-game-out/

    So Meinerz has a bit higher athletic score, but Green has a bit more experience at C and played against better competition in the NCAA. Both guys are known for getting after it.

    Maybe those things alone put Green on top for the Steelers.

    But if they're about even, tie goes to the guy who played last year. I think this was the biggest factor in choosing between these two guys.

    Colbert said that they thought there was risk in bringing a guy in who had been out of football for a year and that he'd avoid that risk if he could. I think that's what he did in the 3rd between guys they probably felt were close to equal (if they didn't think Green was better outright).

    Edited to add: Crap...I was trying to write a short post but just kept going and going and going...
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 05-04-2021 at 10:41 AM.

  9. #79
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Found one guys take on the Loudermilk pick...actually makes some sense:

    (5) Isaiahh Loudermilk, DE Wisconsin. The team should get three comp picks next year, so they tossed their 2022 fourth to get into the 5th round this year. I like the strategy but this doesn't help them win this year - he isn't ready. Long frame, moves well, high motor, but not explosive, doesn't have good strength; good hand use but very poor with positioning. Needs work but we're looking to the future here. This is a depth/developmental signing - next year's crop of D-linemen don't seem very promising after the second round (and in the first two rounds things like QB, OT, and CB will probably be bigger needs) and they're banking that a year of coaching and training will have him looking better next year than anything they could have snagged in the 2022 third or fourth. The coaching said "this is a guy we can work on" and they got him. I'm fine with it and easily see how they justified it. Has most of the recipe, needs to cook, and Heyward isn't getting younger.
    This is fine, but I ld like to understand, why not just pick him in the 6th round?

    Was someone else going to take him? Didnít sound like it according to the draft gurus.

  10. #80
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by MCHammer View Post
    Ding ding ding. And that explains the first 2 picks. I did not support the decision to bring Ben back, but once that decision was made I suppose I am all for drafting skilled offensive players who can support the win now strategy, however ill-advised that strategy was. I don't think this will end well, but am hoping I am wrong.
    This is why I don't object to picking Harris. It's normal for RBs to come in and contribute right away. This seems like a very logical choice if we want to win now (which we say we do).

    I don't think that's true for TE. This is more of a win in the future move to me. My understanding is that TEs typically struggle
    and don't contribute much in their 1st year. I think he'll be our TE2 and play 15% - 20% of snaps. Not bad in a vaccuum, but if we wanted to optimize winning now, it seems like there was a great mix of BPA / immediate need / good player / compete to start in Humphrey.

    If we were planning to tank this year, I would love the Freiermuth pick because I think having a good TE past their rookie year will be a very good piece for a young QB. But I don't get it if we're trying to win now. Draft positions that will have more impact this year and pick up J James for cheap to be the blocking TE2.

    Then I think the Green is also a win in the future move because he didn't play the position much in college.

    Like many things this off season, the draft is confusing to me because we seem to have one foot in "win now" and one foot in "set up the future". And I think it's really hard to try to optimize for two things at the same time.

    If we take the "win now" part out of it, I think this draft could end up looking really good. Especially if Green is starting at or before the beginning of his second season. With Harris starting this year, Ebron leaving, and not having anyone else good at C, we could easily have the first three picks in starting positions by 2022.

    I just worry that this year will be a repeat of last year's OL play. Hopefully it really was a lot on Fitchner and Canada can turn our water into wine.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •