Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 93

Thread: Why fans don't like this draft.

  1. #61
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    What’s wrong with gentry?
    I remember lots of fans telling everyone how great he was going to be.
    Whatever, don’t you know management can never be wrong? That’s what one poster keeps saying.
    From the 2010-2020 season, (A 10 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks.

    Dolphin fans in the 90ís who wanted to hold on to Don Shula for what he did in the playoffs in the 70ís...
    Are the same as Steeler fans (of 2020 ) holding on to Tomlin for what he did in 2008, with Cowher's players & coaches

  2. #62
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Whatever, don’t you know management can never be wrong? That’s what one poster keeps saying.
    Gentry sure is dangerous "down the seams."
    Steel Maniac predicted no RBs would be chosen in the 1st round, so of course we selected:

    1(24) Najee Harris RB Alabama


  3. #63
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post

    Option (2): The Steelers picked this guy and they have more information than me and most draft prognosticators so they must be right.

    I think there are people here that fall in this camp and they're wrong too. I think they would be closer to being right if the argument was Green vs. Meinerz.

    As always, the only real answer with the draft is "we have to wait and see". But we tend to want answers now. I don't see how anyone can think there is less risk with Green over Humphrey though.
    But I dont think option 2 really represents many people.
    A more accurate representation of that group is, "they have more information than me and most draft prognosticators so they have more basis to have an informed opinion".

    Doesnt make them always right, or doubters always wrong. The draft is a crapshoot, if one hates every pick there will be times the hater is right and the team wrong. But the will ALWAYS know more than us about players they evaluate, and have reasons we might not even know as to why they went in a particular direction.

    I disagree with picks. I could not for the life of me understand the Loudermilk pick. No idea what they were thinking. But thats just it, I had no idea.

    The weird thing about that IS the trade to get him. Why? It almost seems so crazy, I feel like they are seeing something we dont even know to look for.

    So I did some digging. Do they see something they saw in Aaron Smith? On paper Smith was not impressive but he could control blockers like a beast.

    Now notice Loudermilk describe his strengths as a player:

    cJI: What kinds of advantages do your height and long arms give you at the line of scrimmage?

    IL: Yeah, I think its a huge advantage when I use it right, and I feel like I do use it right, as well. I feel like, at the line of scrimmage, if I
    an get my hands on someone across from me, normally I¬’m able to lock them out. That¬’s really an advantage for me having a longer build for a d-tackle. Once I get hands on, I really feel like I¬’m able to control the line of scrimmage extremely well.

    Again, do the Steelers see a player with rare traits of our last championship linemen, traits that most overlook? Aaron Smith, Brett Keisel types. Look at the kid's description of his own strengths. He can control blockers, control a line. That doesnt show on a stat sheet, but our scouts and coaches can see that on tape.

    Our current linemen are more playmaker types. But our offense can successfully feature linemen who create plays for others by controlling the LOS. And our linemen are getting old.

    For all we know they are saying, we've not seen anyone control a blocker like that since Aaron Smith. We gotta get this kid, he'd be a steal if he winds up as good as Smith.
    Would he have lasted? Maybe. But what if someone takes a shot at someone who fits our team so well?

    All this is speculation, but I'd say its not a reach.

    They saw gold where we see garbage. It aint his 40 or quantity stats. It's gotta be something they know that we are clueless about.

    Let me ask you this....would you draft Aaron Jones in the 5th round? I would doubt it. He went in the 4th and it was the right move.

    There are no guaranty's. But if they see potential in this kid...not to be Heyward, but to be akin to other Steeler starting linemen on great defenses...a 5th...even with a trade, aint bad.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 05-04-2021 at 12:46 AM.

  4. #64
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Well, we’ll be going through a lot of decision questioning the next couple of years. Let’s enjoy the ride fellas.
    From the 2010-2020 season, (A 10 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks.

    Dolphin fans in the 90ís who wanted to hold on to Don Shula for what he did in the playoffs in the 70ís...
    Are the same as Steeler fans (of 2020 ) holding on to Tomlin for what he did in 2008, with Cowher's players & coaches

  5. #65
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Let’s enjoy the ride fellas.
    how could we possibly enjoy the ride with the Rooneys who don't care about winning, Colbert who didn't draft the positions like you wanted him to and Tomlin who we have held on too long just like the Dolphins did with Shula in the 90s?
    Steel Maniac predicted no RBs would be chosen in the 1st round, so of course we selected:

    1(24) Najee Harris RB Alabama


  6. #66
    Hall of Famer

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    But I dont think option 2 really represents many people.
    A more accurate representation of that group is, "they have more information than me and most draft prognosticators so they have more basis to have an informed opinion".

    Doesnt make them always right, or doubters always wrong. The draft is a crapshoot, if one hates every pick there will be times the hater is right and the team wrong. But the will ALWAYS know more than us about players they evaluate, and have reasons we might not even know as to why they went in a particular direction.

    I disagree with picks. I could not for the life of me understand the Loudermilk pick. No idea what they were thinking. But thats just it, I had no idea.

    The weird thing about that IS the trade to get him. Why? It almost seems so crazy, I feel like they are seeing something we dont even know to look for.

    So I did some digging. Do they see something they saw in Aaron Smith? On paper Smith was not impressive but he could control blockers like a beast.

    Now notice Loudermilk describe his strengths as a player:

    cJI: What kinds of advantages do your height and long arms give you at the line of scrimmage?

    IL: Yeah, I think its a huge advantage when I use it right, and I feel like I do use it right, as well. I feel like, at the line of scrimmage, if I
    an get my hands on someone across from me, normally I’m able to lock them out. That’s really an advantage for me having a longer build for a d-tackle. Once I get hands on, I really feel like I’m able to control the line of scrimmage extremely well.

    Again, do the Steelers see a player with rare traits of our last championship linemen, traits that most overlook? Aaron Smith, Brett Keisel types. Look at the kid's description of his own strengths. He can control blockers, control a line. That doesnt show on a stat sheet, but our scouts and coaches can see that on tape.

    Our current linemen are more playmaker types. But our offense can successfully feature linemen who create plays for others by controlling the LOS. And our linemen are getting old.

    For all we know they are saying, we've not seen anyone control a blocker like that since Aaron Smith. We gotta get this kid, he'd be a steal if he winds up as good as Smith.
    Would he have lasted? Maybe. But what if someone takes a shot at someone who fits our team so well?

    All this is speculation, but I'd say its not a reach.

    They saw gold where we see garbage. It aint his 40 or quantity stats. It's gotta be something they know that we are clueless about.

    Let me ask you this....would you draft Aaron Jones in the 5th round? I would doubt it. He went in the 4th and it was the right move.

    There are no guaranty's. But if they see potential in this kid...not to be Heyward, but to be akin to other Steeler starting linemen on great defenses...a 5th...even with a trade, aint bad.
    Teams evaluate and watch players apply their skill set at the collegiate level. The question is can players apply their skills in the NFL with training, body development, NFL coaching, and ultimately time to become consistent players in the NFL?

    I'm off the opinion that every player that gets drafted into the NFL is a project. They all need to be developed. Some more than others. Sometimes the light goes on quicker than others. Sometimes the light never goes on. That's regardless of the round players were drafted.

  7. #67
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    But I dont think option 2 really represents many people.
    A more accurate representation of that group is, "they have more information than me and most draft prognosticators so they have more basis to have an informed opinion".

    Doesnt make them always right, or doubters always wrong. The draft is a crapshoot, if one hates every pick there will be times the hater is right and the team wrong. But the will ALWAYS know more than us about players they evaluate, and have reasons we might not even know as to why they went in a particular direction.

    I disagree with picks. I could not for the life of me understand the Loudermilk pick. No idea what they were thinking. But thats just it, I had no idea.

    The weird thing about that IS the trade to get him. Why? It almost seems so crazy, I feel like they are seeing something we dont even know to look for.

    So I did some digging. Do they see something they saw in Aaron Smith? On paper Smith was not impressive but he could control blockers like a beast.

    Now notice Loudermilk describe his strengths as a player:

    cJI: What kinds of advantages do your height and long arms give you at the line of scrimmage?

    IL: Yeah, I think its a huge advantage when I use it right, and I feel like I do use it right, as well. I feel like, at the line of scrimmage, if I
    an get my hands on someone across from me, normally I’m able to lock them out. That’s really an advantage for me having a longer build for a d-tackle. Once I get hands on, I really feel like I’m able to control the line of scrimmage extremely well.

    Again, do the Steelers see a player with rare traits of our last championship linemen, traits that most overlook? Aaron Smith, Brett Keisel types. Look at the kid's description of his own strengths. He can control blockers, control a line. That doesnt show on a stat sheet, but our scouts and coaches can see that on tape.

    Our current linemen are more playmaker types. But our offense can successfully feature linemen who create plays for others by controlling the LOS. And our linemen are getting old.

    For all we know they are saying, we've not seen anyone control a blocker like that since Aaron Smith. We gotta get this kid, he'd be a steal if he winds up as good as Smith.
    Would he have lasted? Maybe. But what if someone takes a shot at someone who fits our team so well?

    All this is speculation, but I'd say its not a reach.

    They saw gold where we see garbage. It aint his 40 or quantity stats. It's gotta be something they know that we are clueless about.

    Let me ask you this....would you draft Aaron Jones in the 5th round? I would doubt it. He went in the 4th and it was the right move.

    There are no guaranty's. But if they see potential in this kid...not to be Heyward, but to be akin to other Steeler starting linemen on great defenses...a 5th...even with a trade, aint bad.
    I think both options were meant to be strawman.

    I wouldn't wouldn't have traded up because I think next years picks should be better because we'll have a larger than normal cohort because the guys who took the extra year in college will have to come out.

    I think that makes next years mid to late picks more valuable then normal.

    But if a 5th round guy makes the active roster that's probably a win IMO, so I don't get worried up about it.

  8. #68
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerOfDeVille View Post
    going to be lazy and not chunk up the response

    yes, i was looking at the ACTUAL performance in those categories... I struggle with rating where one player out-performs in 5 of 8 categories, but 2 more categories (height and weigh) are factored in and makes the other guy "more athletic". Especially when weighing more is a plus... look at that category - that's seriously weird, you have to admit. Think about it's actually saying that if Green packed on a few pounds, he'd be a better prospect - because his 40, 20, and 10 wouldn't suffer much. That he, too could be a statistical 10.0... And by that, my argument isn't ridiculous - it's actually a pretty good example of the flaws in the grading system - which makes it brilliant, if ya ask me. LMAO

    Don't get me wrong, analytics SHOULD play a role. But, you can't blindly look at those numbers because like any statistics, they can be manipulated. Otherwise, we'd have a league full of Tony Mandarich's. Instead, those numbers should point you in a general direction, but you gotta WATCH the guy to see if the same measurements = Hines Ward or Markus Wheaton

    Now, if you're going to put words in my mouth, I'll flip it and say that YOU said Creed was significantly more athletic than Green. I didn't say *significantly*. What i did say was that the difference was enough that Green was clearly a better fit.

    Like i said, length absolutely is a factor of how you'll play the position, but even that isn't everything (See: Paxton Lynch, Brock Osweiler). But, where we clearly disagree is weight as a factor of athleticism (Aaron Donald and his 300 lbs aint the same as everyone else's 300 lbs). Hell, i'd rather see body fat might make more sense. Otherwise, if i run, cut, jump, catch, block, tackle better, well, then I'm better. And it doesn't matter if I'm 305 or 350...

    Having said all of that, we're both splitting hairs here. (I dont think it was this thread) but, i've said that I would have been ok with Creed as the pick simply because 0 sacks as a pass blocker is a phenomenal thing. But, i watched his tape and he simply stalemates, whether in the run game or pass game. It's fine in the pass game because you're trying to keep him away from the QB. In the run game, you're kinda leaving the LOS clogged if you're not moving guys.
    Re: me putting words in your mouth

    I believe you said Creed would be a bust in Pit because he wasn't as athletic as Green.

    Wouldn't that mean the difference in athleticism was significant? The difference between making it and being a bust seems important to me.

    Re: you putting words in my mouth.

    If Green doesn't make it at C, I think it will mostly be because he hasn't really played C. Not because he isn't athletic enough. Maybe because he's not tall enough if that extra inch or so actually matters.

    I don't care much about the weight. Maybe Green just cut more so his 40 time was higher. Guys game the exercises all the time.

    That's why I think the tape is important. And why I think having only a few games with him at C makes the pick more of a risk.

    We'll see what happens in camp. Hopefully it is a full slate of activities for the rookies so they all get as many reps as possible because I think we really want significant contributions from these guys.

  9. #69
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    But I dont think option 2 really represents many people.
    A more accurate representation of that group is, "they have more information than me and most draft prognosticators so they have more basis to have an informed opinion".

    Doesnt make them always right, or doubters always wrong. The draft is a crapshoot, if one hates every pick there will be times the hater is right and the team wrong. But the will ALWAYS know more than us about players they evaluate, and have reasons we might not even know as to why they went in a particular direction.

    I disagree with picks. I could not for the life of me understand the Loudermilk pick. No idea what they were thinking. But thats just it, I had no idea.

    The weird thing about that IS the trade to get him. Why? It almost seems so crazy, I feel like they are seeing something we dont even know to look for.

    So I did some digging. Do they see something they saw in Aaron Smith? On paper Smith was not impressive but he could control blockers like a beast.

    Now notice Loudermilk describe his strengths as a player:

    cJI: What kinds of advantages do your height and long arms give you at the line of scrimmage?

    IL: Yeah, I think its a huge advantage when I use it right, and I feel like I do use it right, as well. I feel like, at the line of scrimmage, if I
    an get my hands on someone across from me, normally I’m able to lock them out. That’s really an advantage for me having a longer build for a d-tackle. Once I get hands on, I really feel like I’m able to control the line of scrimmage extremely well.

    Again, do the Steelers see a player with rare traits of our last championship linemen, traits that most overlook? Aaron Smith, Brett Keisel types. Look at the kid's description of his own strengths. He can control blockers, control a line. That doesnt show on a stat sheet, but our scouts and coaches can see that on tape.

    Our current linemen are more playmaker types. But our offense can successfully feature linemen who create plays for others by controlling the LOS. And our linemen are getting old.

    For all we know they are saying, we've not seen anyone control a blocker like that since Aaron Smith. We gotta get this kid, he'd be a steal if he winds up as good as Smith.
    Would he have lasted? Maybe. But what if someone takes a shot at someone who fits our team so well?

    All this is speculation, but I'd say its not a reach.

    They saw gold where we see garbage. It aint his 40 or quantity stats. It's gotta be something they know that we are clueless about.

    Let me ask you this....would you draft Aaron Jones in the 5th round? I would doubt it. He went in the 4th and it was the right move.

    There are no guaranty's. But if they see potential in this kid...not to be Heyward, but to be akin to other Steeler starting linemen on great defenses...a 5th...even with a trade, aint bad.
    On Loudermilk, the Steelers could very well have been looking ahead. Tuitt has one more year after this season. I doubt he sees another contract at his age. But it is curious why they targeted Loudermilk as interesting enough to trade for him. Gotta hope the scouts eyes were right with him.

    The other thing is I'm not sure how important biometric data is for lineman as long as they meet some mimimun qualifying NFL level. I posted one study that suggested arm length for OL isn't all that critical in predicting PFF ratings. Now it certainly could be PFF's rating system is biased or flawed. Also could be interactions with weight, height, etc.

    One thing for sure, it will make for some interesting watching as these guys work there way to the roster.

  10. #70
    Hall of Famer

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by MCHammer View Post
    Ding ding ding. And that explains the first 2 picks. I did not support the decision to bring Ben back, but once that decision was made I suppose I am all for drafting skilled offensive players who can support the win now strategy, however ill-advised that strategy was. I don't think this will end well, but am hoping I am wrong.
    Well, its not like Najee and the TE leave when Ben leaves.

    The next QB will still need a TE since this is Ebron’s last year.. and he will definitely want to hand the ball off to Najee.

    and guess what? IF Ben leaves there is another draft NEXT year before the start of the season.

    Really not understanding the frustration with going skill position first and OL later when we were drafting in the back half of each round.

    the Loudermilk pick.. don’t know much about him but I know Tuitt has been TRASH in the playoffs or when we really need him... and he is always dinged up.
    Last edited by feltdizz; 05-04-2021 at 08:24 AM.
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •