Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 93

Thread: Why fans don't like this draft.

  1. #21
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Let me give you doubters a few things to ponder about this draft. Canada's is known to design plays that stress a defense and put players in conflict with various groupings (I'm not sure Fichtner even knew what that concept is).
    • The Steelers ran 11-personnel 75% of the time last season (second only to CIN 76%). This was usually a combination of Conner/Ebron+Juju/Claypool/DJ, sometimes Snell/Ebron+Juju/Washington/DJ. Good groupings but not exactly terrorizing to a defense. I expect frequency of 11-personnel to be reduced for much more intriguing combinations.
    • 12-personnel (12% frequency); this is where Canada will earn his keeps; imagine Harris/Snell+Ebron/Frie+Juju/Claypool... Harris and/or Frie could stay in to block or run a route, let's see how Patrick Queen or JOK handle these dudes; Juju & Claypool will occupy CBs#1 & 2. Defenses better have guys that can tackle with those guys on the field.
    • 22 & 01-personnel was next most often played; again some interesting combinations emerge; Harris/Snell or Harris/McFly + Ebron/Frie, better blocking for a run or challenges as receivers. McFly can run outside or hand the ball off to Harris for an inside run.
    • 21-personnel - more interesting combinations; Harris/McFly + Frie + Juju/DJ; Frie and Juju stay in to help block if it's a run, McFly on a run to the outside or Harris up the middle? or send three of 'em on a route with two helping block.


    If the OL can hold it's own, I can see where this offense just might sneak back into the top 10. The thing is even if they only end up with one or two OL starters from this draft, they've also got potential franchise TE and RB. So come back next draft to fill in the rest of pieces on the line.
    This year might be a pretty interesting study in the importance of coaching.

    I believe that Canada will be a better OC than Fitchner. We'll see what kind of impact that can have.

  2. #22
    Hall of Famer

    User Info Menu

    basically what i keep reading is this: "the team didn't address needs when i wanted. and that's why i don't like this draft."

    I could make one change, keep the same rookies and most that dislike it would be happy.

    If they traded back into the 5th round, took Shakur Brown, then signed Loudermilk as a UDFA, most of the folks who dislike this draft would be happy.

    It's dumb. but, true. Same rookies. just when/where they got them...
    2013 MNF Executive Champion!

    Najee Harris, YASS!!
    2021 Day2 Mock
    2. Landon Dickerson, C, Alabama
    3. Kelvin Joseph, CB, Kentucky

  3. #23
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerOfDeVille View Post
    basically what i keep reading is this: "the team didn't address needs when i wanted. and that's why i don't like this draft."
    I also think that fans read scouting reports ahead of time, and depending on whose report they read, they decide whether or not they like a player. Mock drafts are mostly based on generic reports for players to display only what they have produced on tape in their college system.

    A perfect example is the difference between how fans view the pick of Green versus how the FO likely does. Fans are wondering why the Steelers picked the 5th (or 6th, or 7th) best rated guard, just to move him to C. In the meantime, the Steelers sent Adrian Klemm to the Illinois pro day and told him "this is what we want to do with our O under Canada. Look to see if he can do this."

    If the Steelers were looking for a C to take on the guy standing in front of him, they likely choose differently. I would think that they are looking for someone who has the athleticism to pull and get to the second level in the running game, and they have determined that Green can do that. Furthermore, I'm guessing that they also believed that he would be available in the third, and that the guy they want at tackle will be there even longer. That is why they were able to take the risk and improve the running game another way in the second with a player who would not be around at pick #87.

  4. #24
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerOfDeVille View Post
    basically what i keep reading is this: "the team didn't address needs when i wanted. and that's why i don't like this draft."

    I could make one change, keep the same rookies and most that dislike it would be happy.

    If they traded back into the 5th round, took Shakur Brown, then signed Loudermilk as a UDFA, most of the folks who dislike this draft would be happy.

    It's dumb. but, true. Same rookies. just when/where they got them...
    I agree that if a 5th round pick is your biggest problem, it's probably not much of a problem.

    Especially in a year where information was sparse and the number of eligible players was low because the NCAA let guys stay an extra year.

    I think most of the complaints I've seen are centered around not taking Humphrey. But maybe that's just my perception because that's the player they passed on that I really wanted.

    Like always, my guess is that they probably did make reasonable choices even if they weren't necessarily the ones I wanted them to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelers_Fan_in_TO
    A perfect example is the difference between how fans view the pick of Green versus how the FO likely does. Fans are wondering why the Steelers picked the 5th (or 6th, or 7th) best rated guard, just to move him to C. In the meantime, the Steelers sent Adrian Klemm to the Illinois pro day and told him "this is what we want to do with our O under Canada. Look to see if he can do this."
    I think you're right that this is the process they're following. I just hope they aren't trying to be too cute. Living in TO, I assume that you're familiar with organizations that make frequently poor decisions (although maybe this year the team looks really good...outside the net anyway <insert Leafs emoji>).
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 05-03-2021 at 02:23 PM.

  5. #25
    Hall of Famer

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by steeler_fan_in_t.o. View Post
    I also think that fans read scouting reports ahead of time, and depending on whose report they read, they decide whether or not they like a player. Mock drafts are mostly based on generic reports for players to display only what they have produced on tape in their college system.

    A perfect example is the difference between how fans view the pick of Green versus how the FO likely does. Fans are wondering why the Steelers picked the 5th (or 6th, or 7th) best rated guard, just to move him to C. In the meantime, the Steelers sent Adrian Klemm to the Illinois pro day and told him "this is what we want to do with our O under Canada. Look to see if he can do this."

    If the Steelers were looking for a C to take on the guy standing in front of him, they likely choose differently. I would think that they are looking for someone who has the athleticism to pull and get to the second level in the running game, and they have determined that Green can do that. Furthermore, I'm guessing that they also believed that he would be available in the third, and that the guy they want at tackle will be there even longer. That is why they were able to take the risk and improve the running game another way in the second with a player who would not be around at pick #87.
    YES...
    People wanted Creed because he was the best "healthy" C per scouting reports. They knew NOTHING about him and how he fit (or did not fit) in the Steelers system. It was like an Edge rusher whose size and athleticism is clearly a 4-3 DE and not a 3-4 OLB. But, because Kiper or someone said he was the best on the board, you want him. But, he would have been a horrible fit - he was NOT agile enough to comfortably draft there because of what the Steelers want from their C.

    I don't know that Green will succeed, but he at least has the athleticism. But, Creed would have been a busted pick with the guy constantly missing second-level blocks, pulls, etc. I thank the heavens Colbert's making the picks, not some of these armchair GMs we have here.
    2013 MNF Executive Champion!

    Najee Harris, YASS!!
    2021 Day2 Mock
    2. Landon Dickerson, C, Alabama
    3. Kelvin Joseph, CB, Kentucky

  6. #26
    Hall of Famer

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    I think most of the complaints I've seen are centered around not taking Humphrey. But maybe that's just my perception because that's the player they passed on that I really wanted.
    Good timing - just addressed that above... bad fit... (43 DE vs 34 OLB is actually a really good comp as to why)
    2013 MNF Executive Champion!

    Najee Harris, YASS!!
    2021 Day2 Mock
    2. Landon Dickerson, C, Alabama
    3. Kelvin Joseph, CB, Kentucky

  7. #27
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerOfDeVille View Post
    YES...
    People wanted Creed because he was the best "healthy" C per scouting reports. They knew NOTHING about him and how he fit (or did not fit) in the Steelers system. It was like an Edge rusher whose size and athleticism is clearly a 4-3 DE and not a 3-4 OLB. But, because Kiper or someone said he was the best on the board, you want him. But, he would have been a horrible fit - he was NOT agile enough to comfortably draft there because of what the Steelers want from their C.

    I don't know that Green will succeed, but he at least has the athleticism. But, Creed would have been a busted pick with the guy constantly missing second-level blocks, pulls, etc. I thank the heavens Colbert's making the picks, not some of these armchair GMs we have here.
    Are you arguing that Green is a better fit because he's more athletic?

    Humphrey's RAS is 10.0 / 10.0.



    Green also has a high relative athletic score (9.23/10), but it's less than Humphrey's. I don't know if they are relative to different pools because Green was listed as a G and not a C.



    For the record, I'm also glad that Colbert is making decisions and not me. He's good at a difficult job. And that's true even when I would have preferred a different decision. Pretending that I know I'm right would be silly. But it's also silly to pretend that the expert is always right.
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 05-03-2021 at 02:31 PM.

  8. #28
    Hall of Famer

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    Are you arguing that Green is a better fit because he's more athletic?

    Humphrey's RAS is 10.0 / 10.0.



    Green also has a high relative athletic score (9.23/10), but it's less than Humphrey's. I don't know if they are relative to different pools because Green was listed as a G and not a C.



    For the record, I'm also glad that Colbert is making decisions and not me. He's good at a difficult job. And that's true even when I would have preferred a different decision. Pretending that I know I'm right would be silly. But it's also silly to pretend that the expert is always right.
    that metric considers height, weight and bench. so basically, if Green eats a few cheeseburgers, he's suddenly MORE athletic. That's odd?

    In any event, Green is better in vertical, broad, 40, 20, 10... basically, he MOVES better with more explosion... which is what i just said... and your screen shots support... THANKS!!
    2013 MNF Executive Champion!

    Najee Harris, YASS!!
    2021 Day2 Mock
    2. Landon Dickerson, C, Alabama
    3. Kelvin Joseph, CB, Kentucky

  9. #29
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerOfDeVille View Post
    that metric considers height, weight and bench. so basically, if Green eats a few cheeseburgers, he's suddenly MORE athletic. That's odd?

    In any event, Green is better in vertical, broad, 40, 20, 10... basically, he MOVES better with more explosion... which is what i just said... and your screen shots support... THANKS!!

    What the screen shot shows is that they are about the same in explosion and speed, and that Humphrey has better agility.

    Humphrey is also bigger...and size is important for linemen IMO.

    You said that Green was more athletic than Humphrey. And I think that's demonstrably false. Green is among the most athletic interior OL in the draft. Just like Humphrey (who is probably a slightly better athlete based on better agility. He also happens to be bigger).

    And Humphrey is a center (3 years at the position vs. 4 games). So he's less of a projection (read lower risk of failure). That's what I meant by saying that I hope that the Green pick isn't too cute. I like the pick more now than when it was first announced.

    Part of that is me learning more about Green (who I admittedly didn't know much about before), and part of that is almost certainly me wanting to like the pick more so I end up liking what I read.

    And he might turn out to be great. Lord knows that's what I'm hoping for.

    But I think the potential for failure is higher here since he's a projection at the position. Just like Meinerz would have been.

    I think the interesting question is: would I have felt the same about this pick if it was Meinerz (who I heard about and liked) and not Green? And I think the answer is yes. Because I don't think my issue is that I don't like Green. My issue is that I don't like taking a TE who will probably play less than 20% of the snaps in the reasonable best case scenario (based on last year's TE2 snaps) over a C who sounded like a plug and play guy that would play every offense snap if he got to his reasonable best case scenario (starting C).
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 05-03-2021 at 02:57 PM.

  10. #30
    Hall of Famer

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    What the screen shot shows is that they are about the same in explosion and speed, and that Humphrey has better agility.
    You can't say about "the same" on one, then say "better" on the other... c'mon man...

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    Humphrey is also bigger...and size is important for linemen IMO.

    You said that Green was more athletic than Humphrey. And I think that's demonstrably false.
    well, if we can't even agree on the facts, this discussion is lost. broad jump, long jump, 40, 20, 10... that's 5 ATHLETIC measurables.

    how many chicken nuggets a guy eats is NOT an ATHLETIC measurable. As long as you're legitimately trying to say he's more athletic cuz his got a more giggly belly, i'm not even sure how to respond to that.

    I mean, Big Dan McCullers must have been the most athletic guy in the league. And since Zach Banner's also 6'8", 360, we have ZERO need at tackle, we have the biggest one in the league so it's all covered.

    While i don't disagree that you cannot teach size (height). And that is absolutely is a factor in ones ability to play, it's a lot less than you might think. Otherwise, we might not have a James Harrison. And Antonio Brown is too short to be an all-pro WR. Russell Wilson's a 5'11" non-athletic scrub. And Aaron Donald isn't athletic, either... You get the point, i could keep going.

    Ok, off my soapbox for that silly definition of "athleticism"

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    Green is among the most athletic interior OL in the draft. Just like Humphrey (who is probably a slightly better athlete based on better agility. He also happens to be bigger).

    And Humphrey is a center (3 years at the position vs. 4 games). So he's less of a projection (read lower risk of failure). That's what I meant by saying that I hope that the Green pick isn't too cute. I like the pick more now than when it was first announced.

    Part of that is me learning more about Green (who I admittedly didn't know much about before), and part of that is almost certainly me wanting to like the pick more so I end up liking what I read.

    And he might turn out to be great. Lord knows that's what I'm hoping for.

    But I think the potential for failure is higher here since he's a projection at the position. Just like Meinerz would have been.

    I think the interesting question is: would I have felt the same about this pick if it was Meinerz (who I heard about and liked) and not Green? And I think the answer is yes. Because I don't think my issue is that I don't like Green. My issue is that I don't like taking a TE who will probably play less than 20% of the snaps in the reasonable best case scenario (based on last year's TE2 snaps) over a C who sounded like a plug and play guy that would play every offense snap if he got to his reasonable best case scenario (starting C).
    I think what you say here is the biggest problem - most of the folks here hadn't heard of Green. I kid you not, I did PFF's mock draft simulator a number of times and THAT graded him an A when taken in the 3rd round. That made me go check him out. I was blown away how low he was mocked based on what the simulators kept doing.

    Apparently, Kiper doesn't know squat vs the PFF simulator... either that, or the steelers did the sim a few times, too.
    2013 MNF Executive Champion!

    Najee Harris, YASS!!
    2021 Day2 Mock
    2. Landon Dickerson, C, Alabama
    3. Kelvin Joseph, CB, Kentucky

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •