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Thread: Why fans don't like this draft.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    In normal circumstances I 100% agree with this approach.

    But the Steelers have kind of forced us to wear 1 year glasses by bringing Ben back on a 1 year dummy contract.

    I guess this draft kind of continues the half going for it half for the future mode we're in.

    I think I'd like this draft a lot better if we didn't bring Ben back. Because then bringing in a C who's probably some time away from starting would help the tank.

    But they've said they intend to compete for the SB this year. And the line is probably worse than last season.
    What makes everyone think this is Ben’s last year? If Najee balls out and Ben is efficient.. why would Ben want to retire?

    Also, even if he doesn’t come back after this year, we damn sure shouldn’t do anything drastic for one more year of Ben
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    What makes everyone think this is Benís last year? If Najee balls out and Ben is efficient.. why would Ben want to retire?

    Also, even if he doesnít come back after this year, we damn sure shouldnít do anything drastic for one more year of Ben
    Horrible play at the end of last year + the dummy contract that voids all years of his contract after this one just after the SB.

    It isn't impossible for him to come back, but retirement seems like the most likely option by far IMO. If he didn't think that was the case, I don't think he signs the dummy extension.

    But I also thought we should have let him go this season...

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    Should teams want a 3 down back?

    I think one of our problems in the Bell era was that we were too reliant on him in the running game. And not having a good 2nd option bit us multiple times in the playoffs. I think that this has generally been an issue throughout Tomlin's tenure.

    Having one "bell cow" or "work horse" back means that you typically don't have depth and the running game has a single point of failure...at an oft injured position. At least this was what happened to us when we had a great back in Bell.

    I think I'd rather have back by committee. It does mean that you probably have 2 guys that aren't as talented as one single guy. But it prevents you from giving a guy like Toussant almost as many carries in a playoff run (29 carries in 2 games) than the rest of his career with the team (38 carries spread over 3 seasons).

    I did want an upgrade at RB, but I think that Snell / McFarland could have been an average duo with good blocking. And average would have been a huge step up from where we were last year.

    But the water is under the bridge now and it's time to start hoping for the best with the decisions that have been made. And I don't think that the 1st pick was unreasonable.
    We had RB by committee past year and it didn’t work. When people say they want RB by committee they still want really good RB’s.. not dudes missing wide open holes or struggling to get to the second level because they are slow as dirt.

    Our OL wasn’t anything special but watch breakdowns of McFarland and Conner. Those dudes missed some serious opportunities to cash in on yards simply because they lacked vision and that feel that 3 down backs like Najee have.

    Also, when Samuels comes in you know its like 3 plays we are going to pick from and all of them took forever to develop.

    The biggest issue with this draft and ANY draft is fans actually expect all the players selected to start on day 1.

    That ain’t happening.

    Half these dudes prolly wont even dress this year for games.
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    Horrible play at the end of last year + the dummy contract that voids all years of his contract after this one just after the SB.

    It isn't impossible for him to come back, but retirement seems like the most likely option by far IMO. If he didn't think that was the case, I don't think he signs the dummy extension.

    But I also thought we should have let him go this season...
    yeah, its smart to give ourselves a chance to break from Ben without losing a ton of cap space.

    but its also a “covid cap” year so who knows what we do once the new cap is announced next year.
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Bingo!!!

    Bringing Ben back for one last hurrah forces you to think about this season in a microscope.

    Which was my whole point in asking about the TE we took instead of a plug and play center.
    No it really doesn't, it made financial sense to bring Ben back, we werent drafting in a spot to get a top QB, couldnt get one in free agency because of the dead money if we cut Ben. Ben was going to count against the cap either way, may as well use him, especially since you dont have anyone on the roster who is better.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    Should teams want a 3-down back?

    I think one of our problems in the Bell era was that we were too reliant on him in the running game. And not having a good 2nd option bit us multiple times in the playoffs. I think that this has generally been an issue throughout Tomlin's tenure.

    Having one "bell cow" or "work horse" back means that you typically don't have depth and the running game has a single point of failure...at an oft injured position. At least this was what happened to us when we had a great back in Bell.

    I think I'd rather have back by committee. It does mean that you probably have 2 guys that aren't as talented as one single guy. But it prevents you from giving a guy like Toussant almost as many carries in a playoff run (29 carries in 2 games) than the rest of his career with the team (38 carries spread over 3 seasons).

    I did want an upgrade at RB, but I think that Snell / McFarland could have been an average duo with good blocking. And average would have been a huge step up from where we were last year.

    But the water is under the bridge now and it's time to start hoping for the best with the decisions that have been made. And I don't think that the 1st pick was unreasonable.
    I think the problem was Bell himself. A me first, team 15th type of player who lied to the team ( about failing his drug test ) and used social media to attack the GM. Thankfully he opted out of a season a passing on a long term deal from the Steelers. Where he is now? See my point, he's DONE. Screw him. I wish Tomlin was tougher with him.

    He was highly over rated in terms of being a pass catcher and runner with a low yards per carry and yards per catch, and had little big play ability. Oh he missed one time with injury and off the field stuff too. Yeah he could catch it and run it, but at the end of the day had few impactful plays.

    Should teams want a 3-down back? Heck yes, if he does damage running or catching the football while doing it, which Harris can. Harris can run outside, inside , Catch it well, or pass block well. You don't have to take him out. He's scheme versatile, and unpredictability is a big part of offensive football.

    If you going with Snell, he's slow, and you can pretty much take away the outside runs. If the player is McFarland, forget the inside running he can be tackled too easily. His vision sucks too.

    Now don't get me wrong, Harris isn't going to play ever snap. I'm just saying the playbook is limited with these two carrying it and much more diversified with Harris running it.
    Last edited by Joel Buchsbaum; 05-03-2021 at 11:35 AM.
    Plan to spend 75 million in cap space in 2022 ( most in the NFL ) and use the 2 comp picks ( 3rd and 5th ) for a killer 2022 draft. We will be back hopefully with better coaching.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    We had RB by committee past year and it didn’t work. When people say they want RB by committee they still want really good RB’s.. not dudes missing wide open holes or struggling to get to the second level because they are slow as dirt.

    Our OL wasn’t anything special but watch breakdowns of McFarland and Conner. Those dudes missed some serious opportunities to cash in on yards simply because they lacked vision and that feel that 3 down backs like Najee have.

    Also, when Samuels comes in you know its like 3 plays we are going to pick from and all of them took forever to develop.

    The biggest issue with this draft and ANY draft is fans actually expect all the players selected to start on day 1.

    That ain’t happening.

    Half these dudes prolly wont even dress this year for games.
    1) I don't think you use a committee approach if you have an above average to elite back. Especially not the Steelers. We do not seem to believe in load management for RBs. And I don't think we had a back by committee approach so much as we had backs getting injured.

    2) I absolutely don't think it's reasonable to expect all draft picks to start day 1. That's why I think we should have drafted a C in round 2 (because I think Green's PT will look more like Dotson's last season). Especially since the Freiermuth's ceiling this year is back up TE (which is probably also his floor given the depth chart).

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Buchsbaum View Post
    I think the problem was Bell himself. A me first, team 15th type of player who lied to the team ( about failing his drug test ) and used social media to attack the GM. Thankful he opted out of a season a pass on a long term deal. Where he is now? See my point, he's DONE. Screw him. I wish Tomlin was tougher with him.

    He was highly over rated in terms of being a pass catch and runner with a low yards per carry and yards per catch, and had little big play ability. Oh he missed one time with injury and off the field stuff too. Yeah he could catch it and run it, but at the end of the day had few impactful plays.

    Should teams want a 3-down back? Heck yes, if he does damage running or catching the football while doing it, which Harris can. Harris can run outside, inside , Catch it well, or pass block well. You don't have to take him out.

    If you going with Snell, he's slow, and you can pretty much take away the outside runs. If the player is McFarland, forget the inside running he can be tackled too easily. His vision sucks too.

    Now don't get me wrong, Harris isn't going to play ever snap. I'm just saying the playbook is limited with these two carrying it.
    This seems like a super-revisionist take on Bell to me.

    He was in the conversation for best back in the league for multiple seasons. Kind of like how I remember Priest Holmes: high YPC, but few huge runs. Very consistent, but didn't have the break away speed.

    Maybe check out the playoff run in 2016? I think we make (and maybe win) the SB if he stays healthy in the playoffs. He was insanely good that year before the injury.

    And that was kind of the problem with Bell. Too good and too well rounded that we didn't want to take him off the field (although we've basically always had a "run the wheels off the RB" approch under Tomlin, which I think is an issue).

    Even when we had a competent RB2 in Blount. I have said several times on here that biggest mistake of Tomlin's career was not managing Bell's load that year. If Blount got more touches, it's pretty likely that he doesn't get disgruntled. We'd reduce the chances that Bell gets hurt. And we'd have had a competent backup if he still did get hurt.

    I was not in favor of keeping him, but he was great in his prime.

    Also, you are only looking at the upside of a workhorse back and not the downside (single point of failure and the whole running game implodes). And that was my point.
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 05-03-2021 at 11:43 AM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Buchsbaum View Post
    I think the problem was Bell himself. A me first, team 15th type of player who lied to the team ( about failing his drug test ) and used social media to attack the GM. Thankfully he opted out of a season a passing on a long term deal from the Steelers. Where he is now? See my point, he's DONE. Screw him. I wish Tomlin was tougher with him.

    He was highly over rated in terms of being a pass catcher and runner with a low yards per carry and yards per catch, and had little big play ability. Oh he missed one time with injury and off the field stuff too. Yeah he could catch it and run it, but at the end of the day had few impactful plays.

    Should teams want a 3-down back? Heck yes, if he does damage running or catching the football while doing it, which Harris can. Harris can run outside, inside , Catch it well, or pass block well. You don't have to take him out. He's scheme versatile, and unpredictability is a big part of offensive football.

    If you going with Snell, he's slow, and you can pretty much take away the outside runs. If the player is McFarland, forget the inside running he can be tackled too easily. His vision sucks too.

    Now don't get me wrong, Harris isn't going to play ever snap. I'm just saying the playbook is limited with these two carrying it and much more diversified with Harris running it.
    I agree with most of this. An example of how a team makes a player look better than he is.

    Harris opens up the playbook and keeps the other RBs as complimentary pieces like they should
    Taking pride in the fact that I'm right so often and he is wrong so often, that Steel Maniac has to have me on "Ignore"

  10. #20
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    Let me give you doubters a few things to ponder about this draft. Canada's is known to design plays that stress a defense and put players in conflict with various groupings (I'm not sure Fichtner even knew what that concept is).
    • The Steelers ran 11-personnel 75% of the time last season (second only to CIN 76%). This was usually a combination of Conner/Ebron+Juju/Claypool/DJ, sometimes Snell/Ebron+Juju/Washington/DJ. Good groupings but not exactly terrorizing to a defense. I expect frequency of 11-personnel to be reduced for much more intriguing combinations.
    • 12-personnel (12% frequency); this is where Canada will earn his keeps; imagine Harris/Snell+Ebron/Frie+Juju/Claypool... Harris and/or Frie could stay in to block or run a route, let's see how Patrick Queen or JOK handle these dudes; Juju & Claypool will occupy CBs#1 & 2. Defenses better have guys that can tackle with those guys on the field.
    • 22 & 01-personnel was next most often played; again some interesting combinations emerge; Harris/Snell or Harris/McFly + Ebron/Frie, better blocking for a run or challenges as receivers. McFly can run outside or hand the ball off to Harris for an inside run.
    • 21-personnel - more interesting combinations; Harris/McFly + Frie + Juju/DJ; Frie and Juju stay in to help block if it's a run, McFly on a run to the outside or Harris up the middle? or send three of 'em on a route with two helping block.


    If the OL can hold it's own, I can see where this offense just might sneak back into the top 10. The thing is even if they only end up with one or two OL starters from this draft, they've also got potential franchise TE and RB. So come back next draft to fill in the rest of pieces on the line.
    Last edited by NorthCoast; 05-03-2021 at 11:55 AM.

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