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Thread: Canada's Offense

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    Can you find a better angle?

    I'll happily look at it.

    Even if you put all of the blame on DJ for that pick, it's still a horrible game from Ben. But that's kind of who he is (live by the sword and die by the sword).

    He throws way too many picks in the playoffs. His TD% over his career in the playoffs is 4.6% and his INT% is 3.8%. For context, Brees is 5.1% (TD) and 2.1% (INT) and Rodgers is 6.0% (TD) and 1.7% (INT). He's less likely to throw TDs in the playoffs than these other HoF QBs (who are not the GOAT). But he's between two and three times more likely to throw picks. And he's only had one playoff game with DJ.

    The way to win with Ben in the playoffs seems to be limit his passes and hope that you get TDs and not INTs. They are almost equally likely in larger sample sizes, so you place fewer bets and hope you keep flipping heads.

    Also, I'm not arguing that Ben was the only person who shat the bed. Pouncey basically lost the game for us on the first snap. And Heyward was invisible despite playing against a guy with one (?) game in the NFL. But Ben was terrible. And that just continued his play down the stretch and echoed his performance against the Jags in the playoffs.

    He's been a ton of fun to watch over his career. In part because so many plays were "No, no, no, no, YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!". In his prime, I don't think anyone was better at creating amazing plays out of nothing.

    But I think it's very hard not to think that he's basically done. He's still going to throw lots of picks (because that's who he is). But without the ability to escape and extend plays, I don't think he's going to have many more of those thrillingly dangerous TDs.
    I said he didn't play well. my argument was he wasn't the only reason we lost.

    those 3 you mentioned were all given off week 17. whose choice was that? certainly looked like they were all pretty rusty.


    IMO we were outcoached as badly as ben played. by a rookie coach that wasn't even on the team's sideline. they had no answers or adjustments for anything cleveland wanted to do
    Last edited by NJ-STEELER; 05-17-2021 at 10:17 PM.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    Can you find a better angle

    He throws way too many picks in the playoffs. His TD% over his career in the playoffs is 4.6% and his INT% is 3.8%. For context, Brees is 5.1% (TD) and 2.1% (INT) and Rodgers is 6.0% (TD) and 1.7% (INT). He's less likely to throw TDs in the playoffs than these other HoF QBs (who are not the GOAT). But he's between two and three times more likely to throw picks. And he's only had one playoff game with DJ.


    look how brees's teams have been constructed. i think any QB would throw less INTs throwing to the saints receives/TEs/backs vs what the steelers have put there
    is there a steeler's fan out there that doesn't
    crave a great defense? those same people get upset when the QB can't turn chicken $hit into chicken salad


































    s.
    there was a better clip out there right after the game that showed the slow motion replay. this one is not as good but you can see that the throw wasn't "too high".
    the ball is at or just above the height of his helmet
    i stand by my assessment that the pass is caught 90% of the time in the NFL.

    the narrative was set when the the crew said the ball was thrown high during play by play.

    compare that to brady's INT when he tried going deep to a 6'7 arms stretched out mike evans. that ball was overthrown to someone with a much larger catch radius.
    it took a commercial and 5 minutes of real time before someone in the booth (i think it was aikman) to say brady was off on that throw


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJp1HO9pFrc

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER View Post
    young franchise QBs. i agree 100%.

    franchise QB over 35? not as much (see rodgers)
    coming off a major injury...even less likely (see Ben forced into cutting his salary)
    especially considering how much of this board thinks of tomlin
    I agree that there are rare exceptions. That's why I said "close to 100% of the time".

    I also think the board probably doesn't think as much of Tomlin as is sometimes implied.

    For example, I agree we were out coached vs. Cleveland particularly vs their run game. I just don't think coaching can save you when you're -5 in turnovers. Particularly when most of those turnovers come so early (so the game plan probably gets thrown out).

    So I think the execution was the much bigger problem.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER View Post
    there was a better clip out there right after the game that showed the slow motion replay. this one is not as good but you can see that the throw wasn't "too high".
    the ball is at or just above the height of his helmet
    i stand by my assessment that the pass is caught 90% of the time in the NFL.

    the narrative was set when the the crew said the ball was thrown high during play by play.

    compare that to brady's INT when he tried going deep to a 6'7 arms stretched out mike evans. that ball was overthrown to someone with a much larger catch radius.
    it took a commercial and 5 minutes of real time before someone in the booth (i think it was aikman) to say brady was off on that throw


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJp1HO9pFrc
    I think this shows the same as the other clip.

    It was high.

    And it was catchable.

    Again, maybe Ben played the best 4 interception playoff game ever by a QB. But at some point the consistency of throwing considerably more picks than other very good QBs in the playoffs means something.

    Ben is like Favre. He takes risks throwing the football. It's what made him great (see Santonio catch). But for Farve, those gambles seemed to get worse as he aged and his skills diminished.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    I think this shows the same as the other clip.

    It was high.

    And it was catchable.

    Again, maybe Ben played the best 4 interception playoff game ever by a QB. But at some point the consistency of throwing considerably more picks than other very good QBs in the playoffs means something.

    Ben is like Favre. He takes risks throwing the football. It's what made him great (see Santonio catch). But for Farve, those gambles seemed to get worse as he aged and his skills diminished.
    if anyone else on the team was turning the ball over this much in the playoffs...

    and someone tried to say they weren’t the real reason we lost..

    people would laugh that guy out of the room.
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER View Post
    especially considering how much of this board thinks of tomlin
    assuming you expect 5+ healthy years, you take Franchise QB over coach every time... even with how this board thinks of tomlin (and I tend to back him).
    2013 MNF Executive Champion!

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerOfDeVille View Post
    assuming you expect 5+ healthy years, you take Franchise QB over coach every time... even with how this board thinks of tomlin (and I tend to back him).
    in most cases you will take the QB if he is a generational talent still playing exceptional ball..

    but the way QB’s are moving these days it looks like teams are sticking with coaches right now.
    Last edited by feltdizz; 05-18-2021 at 04:59 PM.
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    if anyone else on the team was turning the ball over this much in the playoffs...

    and someone tried to say they werenít the real reason we lost..

    people would laugh that guy out of the room.
    Wellll, you just excused NOD for his SB picks like 2 days ago. You gave the exact same reasons people excuse Ben.

    Then again, I did laugh at your contention, so on some level you are correct.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 05-18-2021 at 09:21 PM.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER View Post
    I said he didn't play well. my argument was he wasn't the only reason we lost.

    those 3 you mentioned were all given off week 17. whose choice was that? certainly looked like they were all pretty rusty.


    IMO we were outcoached as badly as ben played. by a rookie coach that wasn't even on the team's sideline. they had no answers or adjustments for anything cleveland wanted to do
    No Ben didn't play well, Pouncey spotting the Browns six points and getting pushed backward destroying the running game, and Heyward like you said doing little didn't help. Nor did Tomlin's game plan, who ended the year 1-5. Yes we were also outcoached.

    For once can someone name me a game where Ben was off, but the Steelers won a significant game? Anyone? IMO Ben saved Tomlin as he has 35 with quarter comebacks meaning the defense didn't shut them down and 46 game winning drives meaning he won the game by having the ball last when scoring points. WOW. That magic.

    The Steelers think Ben is fine. I disagree, he's 39 years old and his arm is no longer the same. Maybe he's the 12th best QB these days, a far cary when you could argue he was top 6, Age can make Jerry Rice average. Without Ben I think this team is gunning for .500 and 2nd place and that's years ago. We do not win with a tight game plan, with focused players and top coaching. Those days were gone when Cowher retired, only to be saved in many cases with Ben's 4th quarter magic.

    Yes I woud trade a lot for Rodgers. We have the cap space for it and he's still a top 3 QB. Ben deserves a special day here, but give me Rogers and I'm talking Super bowl. Don't care if we are giving away Ben and 2 first round picks to make the deal. Apparently Green Bay is demanding a good QB in return for the trade as former 1st round pick Jordan Love is bust in practice. Yes--this trade can happen.
    Last edited by Joel Buchsbaum; 05-18-2021 at 09:46 PM.
    Plan to spend 75 million in cap space in 2022 ( most in the NFL ) and use the 2 comp picks ( 3rd and 5th ) for a killer 2022 draft. We will be back hopefully with better coaching.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    if anyone else on the team was turning the ball over this much in the playoffs...

    and someone tried to say they weren’t the real reason we lost..

    people would laugh that guy out of the room.
    I doubt anyone else touches the ball as much as the an to actually have an opportunity % wise to do so.
    Update:
    In the last decade, 25% of the league has won a super bowl(the Steelers aren't one of them) and now 50% have as many or more playoff wins as the Steelers.

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