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Thread: Quincy Roche, help me out. How was he a 6th round pick?

  1. #1
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    Quincy Roche, help me out. How was he a 6th round pick?

    After three dominant seasons at Temple, Roche showed it wasn’t just a lack of competition that allowed him to post such impressive numbers. After he recorded 137 tackles, 39.5 for loss, and 26 sacks in those three years, Roche transferred to Miami and had 45 tackles, 14.5 of which were for loss, and 4.5 sacks, 3 fumbles recovered and two fumbles forced in his lone year with the Hurricanes.

    Okay so in 4 years at college we get:

    182 tackles ( 45.5 a season )
    54 tackles for losses
    30.5 sacks
    7 Passes defenses
    8 Fumbles recovered
    8 Forced fumbles

    https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/quincy-roche-1.html

    Any player with that production deserves a real look. A sack man, a guy with many tackles behind the line of scrimmage, a guy who collects the ball when loose, and a guy who forces it loose. This guy sounds like a hitter. You have my attention.

    Okay, maybe he's too slow for the NFL? Nope

    Miami Hurricanes defensive end Quincy Roche ran a 4.62 in the 40 during his Pro Day workout at UM on Monday afternoon.

    Roche posted a 32.5 vertical jump and 23 reps on the bench press at 225 pounds.

    He showed impressive explosiveness with a 9-feet-11 in the broad jump.

    These are above average NFL Linebacker STARTING numbers, which in many areas would also be above average for an end.

    Maybe he's just too small? No again, listed at 6'3" 245 pounds he sure can be 250 or more if he wants to. IMO he fits in our 4 Man rush ( Any down ), nickel, dime. and should do well on special teams with the ability to get sacks, force fumbles or beat his man to tackle a ball carrier behind the line of scrimmage!

    How the heck did Roche last until round six? Did he have a bad character report? A bad medical report? IMO, this is our best value pick in the draft. I can't wait t see him play.
    Last edited by Joel Buchsbaum; Yesterday at 11:09 AM.
    Plan to spend 75 million in cap space in 2022 ( most in the NFL ) and use the 2 comp picks ( 3rd and 5th ) for a killer 2022 draft. We will be back hopefully with better coaching.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Buchsbaum View Post
    After three dominant seasons at Temple, Roche showed it wasnít just a lack of competition that allowed him to post such impressive numbers. After he recorded 137 tackles, 39.5 for loss, and 26 sacks in those three years, Roche transferred to Miami and had 45 tackles, 14.5 of which were for loss, and 4.5 sacks, 3 fumbles recovered and two fumbles forced in his lone year with the Hurricanes.

    Okay so in 4 years at college we get:

    182 tackles ( 45.5 a season )
    54 tackles for losses
    30.5 sacks
    7 Passes defenses
    8 Fumbles recovered
    8 Forced fumbles

    https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/quincy-roche-1.html

    Any player with that production deserves a real look. A sack man, a guy with many tackles behind the line of scrimmage, a guy who collects the ball when loose, and a guy who forces it loose. This guy sounds like a hitter. You have my attention.

    Okay, maybe he's too slow for the NFL? Nope

    Miami Hurricanes defensive end Quincy Roche ran a 4.62 in the 40 during his Pro Day workout at UM on Monday afternoon.

    Roche posted a 32.5 vertical jump and 23 reps on the bench press at 225 pounds.

    He showed impressive explosiveness with a 9-feet-11 in the broad jump.

    These are above average NFL Linebacker STARTING numbers, which in many areas would also be above average for an end.

    Maybe he's just too small? No again, listed at 6'3" 245 pounds he sure can be 250 or more if he wants to. IMO he fits in our 4 Man rush ( Any down ), nickel, dime. and should do well on special teams with the ability to get sacks, force fumbles or beat his man to tackle a ball carrier behind the line of scrimmage!

    How the heck did Roche last until round six? Did he have a bad character report? A bad medical report? IMO, this is our best value pick in the draft. I can't wait t see him play.
    Honestly, I believe it was the dip in production when going to Miami. He only had 4.5 sacks after 3 years of averaging twice as many as that. If that step up in competition stifled his sack production, what would another step up do?

    I kinda watched him most of the year because his Temple numbers intrigued me. By most scouts, he came into the season as a solid day 2 prospect who could climb to day 1. Came out of the season as a day 3 prospect.

    Here's to hoping it was learning a "new system" as anything else. But, that's the risk.
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  3. #3
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    For those who like RAS data.

    The link for the image is too long to post here so it doesn't come up. But I think you can click it here.
    https://relativeathleticscores.com/r...PlayerID=18373

    RAS: 6.4 / 10

    Size Grade (Height / Weight / Bench): Very Poor <-- Poor height / weight / average bench
    Composite Explosion (Vertical / Broad): Good <-- average vertical, good broad
    Composite Speed (40 time and splits at 10 & 20): Good <-- Has good 40 time, but splits arn't as good...issue with acceleration?
    Composite Agility (Shuttle / 3-cone): Good <-- Poor shuttle, Good 3-cone

    This is only one way to judge prospects, but my guess from this is that he fell because of his size.

    Hopefully he works out. He certainly had lots of production before the transfer. And changing schools in the middle of a pandemic is probably not easy.

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    He looks a little smallish.. wonder if that worked against him.
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    For those who like RAS data.

    The link for the image is too long to post here so it doesn't come up. But I think you can click it here.
    https://relativeathleticscores.com/r...PlayerID=18373

    RAS: 6.4 / 10

    Size Grade (Height / Weight / Bench): Very Poor <-- Poor height / weight / average bench
    Composite Explosion (Vertical / Broad): Good <-- average vertical, good broad
    Composite Speed (40 time and splits at 10 & 20): Good <-- Has good 40 time, but splits arn't as good...issue with acceleration?
    Composite Agility (Shuttle / 3-cone): Good <-- Poor shuttle, Good 3-cone

    This is only one way to judge prospects, but my guess from this is that he fell because of his size.

    Hopefully he works out. He certainly had lots of production before the transfer. And changing schools in the middle of a pandemic is probably not easy.
    So that data is running him as a DE. If he's a LB, then it changes to.

    RAS (LB): 6.34 / 10

    Size Grade (Height / Weight / Bench): Great <-- great size, average bench
    Composite Explosion (Vertical / Broad): Good <-- poor vertical, average broad
    Composite Speed (40 time and splits at 10 & 20): Okay <-- Has average 40 time, but splits are poor
    Composite Agility (Shuttle / 3-cone): Poor <-- Poor shuttle, okay 3-cone

    Now, that's probably against the whole LB cohort. Doing so improves his size score, but drops his agility and speed scores.

    He's probably something like a tweener that doesn't fit into different programs. So maybe we got a bargain here? But this was more common in the 90s when fewer teams ran 3-4.

  6. #6
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    [url=https://flic.kr/p/2kY2Yr8][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/2kY2Yr8]Capture[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/191750946@N04/]R W[/url], on Flickr





    [url=https://flic.kr/p/2kY32bB][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/2kY32bB]Capture[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/191750946@N04/]R W[/url], on Flickr
    I'm not sold on the usefulness of RAS at the moment. I was looking back at a few Steelers picks over the years and the overall score didn't seem to correlate with their NFL careers. Example was AB who had mid 6 range RAS. Lot of picks were all over the place.
    Last edited by NorthCoast; Yesterday at 12:44 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    [url=https://flic.kr/p/2kY2Yr8][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/2kY2Yr8]Capture[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/191750946@N04/]R W[/url], on Flickr





    [url=https://flic.kr/p/2kY32bB][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/2kY32bB]Capture[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/191750946@N04/]R W[/url], on Flickr
    I'm not sold on the usefulness of RAS at the moment. I was looking back at a few Steelers picks over the years and the overall score didn't seem to correlate with their NFL careers. Example was AB who had mid 6 range RAS. Lot of picks were all over the place.
    I think this is certainly the limitation of the combine in general. Especially since some guys really train for this, or test at weights that aren't what they play at.

    And even if they were "true" measurements, I bet it's more that you want to be above thresholds. I think that it's probably more like you don't want to be in the red for them, but the difference between green and yellow isn't as important as non-measured things like ability read and react.

  8. #8
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    I think Roche will be our Steal of the Draft if he can take firm grasp of the backup OLB this year, getting 250+ snaps.

    I think he dropped like a few good players do every year—his fit and characteristics make him only attractive to a few teams.

    To me, he looks most attractive as a 3-4 OLB, not a DE or a 4-3 OLB. I think that’s why he dropped.

    Lucky us!

  9. #9
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    These RAZ scores are not situational, and Roche is a pass rusher, with top production, speed and playmaking ability. If this was scored by RAZ it would be upper level green. But such stats are non existent in RAZ for edge players.

    Best described as a edge rusher, NOT pigeon holed as a DE or LB. He's way faster ( 4.62 pro day ) way more productive than your typical DE and LB..Almost every one

    Still unsure as to why he went in round six. Did he hold up a Burger King or something on his character report? What gives?

    I also dispute that he did not do well as a senior.

    45 tackles, 14.5 tackles for losses, 4.5 sacks, and 2 fumbles forced is good for 10 games played.
    Plan to spend 75 million in cap space in 2022 ( most in the NFL ) and use the 2 comp picks ( 3rd and 5th ) for a killer 2022 draft. We will be back hopefully with better coaching.

  10. #10
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    Hope he's a steal but reading draft profiles and most said day 3 pick so he didn't really fall that far. Most of that was attributed to being average or slightly below average with his athleticism. He's tall but he has unusually long, skinny legs an can be blocked by 1 guy. Hopefully TJ teaches his some tricks.

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