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Thread: Le'Veon Bell

  1. #2131
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER View Post
    started before their prime. as ryan clak has stated, AB's showed signs of that early on.

    with nothing being done about it
    So Tomlin (and the rest of the coaching staff) saw Brown's talent as a 6th round pick, put him in a situation where he could use his incredible drive to be the best to become the best WR in football, and also manage the self-destructive part of his personality for 9 seasons which included 7 probowls and 4 first-team all pros. And you think that's an example of poor coaching?

    Brown had a string of incredible success from 2013 - 2018 where we had AB and he went to the pro-bowl every year and was first team all-pro in 4 of 6 years. In this time he averaged 114 receptions / year; 1525 yards / year; 13.4 YPC; and 11.2 TDs/year. This 6 year stretch has a good chance of making him a Hall of Famer, or at least it would if he didn't totally flame out.

    Then he left the team. Went to teams with coaches with more "my way or the highway" attitudes like the ones so many posters on here want. But that stuff doesn't work with everyone.

    His next two season:
    - Flames out with the Raiders
    - Sexual assault charges.
    - 8 targets and 4 receptions for 56 yards and a TD with the Pats.
    - Cut and suspended.

    Then he went to Arians, who saw how the Steelers managed him successfully (and was likely a part of that successful management, even though AB had previously taken shots at him MJ style).
    - 8 games with the Bucks. 62 targets; 45 catches; 483 yards; 10.7 YPC; 4 TD. If you project those numbers across 16 games, it's still the 2nd worst season of his career (excluding 2017 where he played 1 game).

    Sounds like one coaching staff put a player with exceptional talent in a position to succeed.

    Two other coaching staffs didn't (Gruden and BB).

    Arians did reasonably well getting him to deliver good production by normal WR standards (but not necessarily by AB's own previous play).
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 06-16-2021 at 07:29 AM.

  2. #2132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Good article about how Bell ruined his career:

    https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...ew-jets-nfl-rb
    A wise man once told me, that if you met a rude person in the morning but went the rest of your day without meeting another rude person, you had a bad experience. But if you meet rude people all day long, then you’re the rude person. Given the fact Bell has complained about every team he’s ever played for, it should be time we start pointing the finger at Le’Veon Bell for ruining his own career. He has no one to blame but himself and should be the poster boy of what not to do when you get into the NFL.
    So true. I used to work with a woman that never spent more than a few years at any job she had. She always had some complaint on why each was a bad fit for her. In the end, she should have been looking in the mirror.

  3. #2133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    So Tomlin (and the rest of the coaching staff) saw Brown's talent as a 6th round pick, put him in a situation where he could use his incredible drive to be the best to become the best WR in football, and also manage the self-destructive part of his personality for 9 seasons which included 7 probowls and 4 first-team all pros. And you think that's an example of poor coaching?

    Brown had a string of incredible success from 2013 - 2018 where we had AB and he went to the pro-bowl every year and was first team all-pro in 4 of 6 years. In this time he averaged 114 receptions / year; 1525 yards / year; 13.4 YPC; and 11.2 TDs/year. This 6 year stretch has a good chance of making him a Hall of Famer, or at least it would if he didn't totally flame out.

    Then he left the team. Went to teams with coaches with more "my way or the highway" attitudes like the ones so many posters on here want. But that stuff doesn't work with everyone.

    His next two season:
    - Flames out with the Raiders
    - Sexual assault charges.
    - 8 targets and 4 receptions for 56 yards and a TD with the Pats.
    - Cut and suspended.

    Then he went to Arians, who saw how the Steelers managed him successfully (and was likely a part of that successful management, even though AB had previously taken shots at him MJ style).
    - 8 games with the Bucks. 62 targets; 45 catches; 483 yards; 10.7 YPC; 4 TD. If you project those numbers across 16 games, it's still the 2nd worst season of his career (excluding 2017 where he played 1 game).

    Sounds like one coaching staff put a player with exceptional talent in a position to succeed.

    Two other coaching staffs didn't (Gruden and BB).

    Arians did reasonably well getting him to deliver good production by normal WR standards (but not necessarily by AB's own previous play).

    so let me get this straight.

    tomlin is responsible for all the Good that the steelers got from AB but none of the bad.
    the bad is the responsibility of the indvidual.

    is that your view of the situation?

  4. #2134
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER View Post
    so let me get this straight.

    tomlin is responsible for all the Good that the steelers got from AB but none of the bad.
    the bad is the responsibility of the indvidual.

    is that your view of the situation?
    You'll notice that I was talking about "coaching staffs" and not just HCs.

    And that in this case, a dramatic change in player behavior was seen with a change in coaching staff.

    That kind of suggests that one staff put players in a situation where they were making better choices, doesn't it?

    Ultimately it's always the players making choices. But authoritarian leadership brings out the worst in a lot of people. Brown seems to be particularly obvious case of this. He didn't even last a training camp with a hard nosed coach like Chucky.

    Good managers are flexible and use different strategies with different individuals to get the most out of their people.

    It's really, really hard to argue that MT and company didn't get the most out of Brown. Which is why I think using Brown as an argument for Tomlin being a bad coach is ridiculous.

  5. #2135
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER View Post
    so let me get this straight.

    tomlin is responsible for all the Good that the steelers got from AB but none of the bad.
    the bad is the responsibility of the indvidual.

    is that your view of the situation?
    Players are responsible for most (not all) of their performance whether good or bad. It's up to coaches to decide whether their play meets expectations (Tomlin's "the standard is the standard"). Players are 100% responsible for their behavior. How do you put that on anyone else?

  6. #2136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    You'll notice that I was talking about "coaching staffs" and not just HCs.

    And that in this case, a dramatic change in player behavior was seen with a change in coaching staff.

    That kind of suggests that one staff put players in a situation where they were making better choices, doesn't it?

    Ultimately it's always the players making choices. But authoritarian leadership brings out the worst in a lot of people. Brown seems to be particularly obvious case of this. He didn't even last a training camp with a hard nosed coach like Chucky.

    Good managers are flexible and use different strategies with different individuals to get the most out of their people.

    It's really, really hard to argue that MT and company didn't get the most out of Brown. Which is why I think using Brown as an argument for Tomlin being a bad coach is ridiculous.
    I don't think i've have seen someone say tomlin isn't a good coach because he can't reel in people like AB.

    but i do think its a weakness of his.

    a contributor to the colin cowherd 'buttoned up" argument.

    maybe a little more discipline from the start could have checked egos like AB and bell.
    a player on the roster even suggested it.

  7. #2137
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Players are responsible for most (not all) of their performance whether good or bad. It's up to coaches to decide whether their play meets expectations (Tomlin's "the standard is the standard"). Players are 100% responsible for their behavior. How do you put that on anyone else?
    ask ryan clark

  8. #2138
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER View Post
    ask ryan clark
    NJ, these are great back to back posts.

    1: No one said MT isn't a good coach because he failed to rein in AB.
    2: Ryan Clark said it was bad coaching not to rein in AB.

    2 minutes apart.

    Maybe you meant something different than that?

  9. #2139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    NJ, these are great back to back posts.

    1: No one said MT isn't a good coach because he failed to rein in AB.
    2: Ryan Clark said it was bad coaching not to rein in AB.

    2 minutes apart.

    Maybe you meant something different than that?
    bad coach = not good at anything

    bad coaching/failing in reeeling in a players ego = weakness in one aspect of coaching, which consists of many factors

  10. #2140
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER View Post
    bad coach = not good at anything

    bad coaching/failing in reeeling in a players ego = weakness in one aspect of coaching, which consists of many factors
    But people here are using it as an example of bad coaching, right? Which is what I said. Not that anyone was saying he wasn't good at anything (although we have folks like that here I think).

    What do you think Tomlin is good at? He must be good to very good at something to have the record he does, right?

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