Old Topic, New take

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  • SteelerOfDeVille
    Legend
    • May 2008
    • 8836

    Old Topic, New take

    Anyone watch Mahommes make plays and wonder if he and Andy Reid are just a good pairing? Like if some other person was calling plays, would they try and remove all of his non-standard "magic" that he's allowed to create?

    Caitlyn Clark's basketball coach called Steve Kerr and asked "how do you coach a player like Steph Curry", who tends to do ridiculous, yet non-traditional stuff.

    Mahommes is not the smartest ever
    He is not the most accurate ever
    He is not the most competitive ever
    He doesn't have the greatest stats ever

    His "super power" is to make plays off cycle. I think that due to his time with Brett Favre, he had the wisdom to allow that "talent" to flourish.

    Tua threw for more yards, along with a handful of others. Dak and a few others threw for more TDs. But, when it counted, Mahommes hoisted another trophy.

    Getting to the point: In the past, I have argued that Tomlin's biggest error ever was firing Arians. Typically, people respond with stats of other OCs calling plays for Ben... or Dick LeBeau (yes, HE mattered).

    But in Arians, Ben had a guy who would allow him to uses his super power when he wanted/needed.

    I'm not sure that I've ever pieced it together like this. If I did, it was on a whim in someone else's post and apologize for the duplication
    2013 MNF Executive Champion!

    DeVille's final Mock
    1.20 - Tailiese Fuaga, OT, Oregon St
    2.51 - Zach Frazier, C, WVU
    3.84 - Luke Mccaffery, WR, Rice
    3.98 - Andru Phillips, CB, Kentucky
    4.117 - Maason Smith, DT, LSU
    6.178 - Travis Glover, OT, Ga State
    6.195 - Dillon Johnson, RB, Washington

  • hawaiiansteel
    Legend
    • May 2008
    • 34726

    #2
    Originally posted by SteelerOfDeVille
    Anyone watch Mahommes make plays and wonder if he and Andy Reid are just a good pairing? Like if some other person was calling plays, would they try and remove all of his non-standard "magic" that he's allowed to create?

    Caitlyn Clark's basketball coach called Steve Kerr and asked "how do you coach a player like Steph Curry", who tends to do ridiculous, yet non-traditional stuff.

    Mahommes is not the smartest ever
    He is not the most accurate ever
    He is not the most competitive ever
    He doesn't have the greatest stats ever

    His "super power" is to make plays off cycle. I think that due to his time with Brett Favre, he had the wisdom to allow that "talent" to flourish.

    Tua threw for more yards, along with a handful of others. Dak and a few others threw for more TDs. But, when it counted, Mahommes hoisted another trophy.

    Getting to the point: In the past, I have argued that Tomlin's biggest error ever was firing Arians. Typically, people respond with stats of other OCs calling plays for Ben... or Dick LeBeau (yes, HE mattered).

    But in Arians, Ben had a guy who would allow him to uses his super power when he wanted/needed.

    I'm not sure that I've ever pieced it together like this. If I did, it was on a whim in someone else's post and apologize for the duplication
    great take.

    I understood why Arians was let go. but in hindsight, it was definitely a mistake.

    Comment

    • Oviedo
      Legend
      • May 2008
      • 23696

      #3
      Originally posted by SteelerOfDeVille
      Anyone watch Mahommes make plays and wonder if he and Andy Reid are just a good pairing? Like if some other person was calling plays, would they try and remove all of his non-standard "magic" that he's allowed to create?

      Caitlyn Clark's basketball coach called Steve Kerr and asked "how do you coach a player like Steph Curry", who tends to do ridiculous, yet non-traditional stuff.

      Mahommes is not the smartest ever
      He is not the most accurate ever
      He is not the most competitive ever
      He doesn't have the greatest stats ever

      His "super power" is to make plays off cycle. I think that due to his time with Brett Favre, he had the wisdom to allow that "talent" to flourish.

      Tua threw for more yards, along with a handful of others. Dak and a few others threw for more TDs. But, when it counted, Mahommes hoisted another trophy.

      Getting to the point: In the past, I have argued that Tomlin's biggest error ever was firing Arians. Typically, people respond with stats of other OCs calling plays for Ben... or Dick LeBeau (yes, HE mattered).

      But in Arians, Ben had a guy who would allow him to uses his super power when he wanted/needed.

      I'm not sure that I've ever pieced it together like this. If I did, it was on a whim in someone else's post and apologize for the duplication
      If Arians had remained the OC, Ben?s career may had been five years shorter

      One of the reasons he was let go was the number of hits Ben took was unsustainable
      "My team, may they always be right, but right or wrong...MY TEAM!"

      Comment

      • Joel Buchsbaum
        Legend
        • Jan 2021
        • 7354

        #4
        Originally posted by hawaiiansteel
        great take.

        I understood why Arians was let go. but in hindsight, it was definitely a mistake.
        It was a huge mistake. When you have a hall of fame talent, you allow him to do what he is good at even if goes against your system at times. They have unique talent. You do not handcuff him. Like Noll did with Bradshaw. Like Arians did with Ben.
        Tomlin hasn't won a playoff game in seven years and counting. The earliest will be eight years. I guess that in Art Rooney's II, opinion is worth a 3 year extension.

        Our 2024 draft looks to be grade A. Our 2023 draft is an A. The roster is talented, but Mike Tomlin is still the head coach.

        *** Mike Tomlin is the best coach since the AFL- NFL merger that has not won a playoff game in 8 seasons or more. It's either him or Lewis. ***

        Comment

        • NorthCoast
          Legend
          • Sep 2008
          • 25568

          #5
          Originally posted by SteelerOfDeVille
          Anyone watch Mahommes make plays and wonder if he and Andy Reid are just a good pairing? Like if some other person was calling plays, would they try and remove all of his non-standard "magic" that he's allowed to create?

          Caitlyn Clark's basketball coach called Steve Kerr and asked "how do you coach a player like Steph Curry", who tends to do ridiculous, yet non-traditional stuff.

          Mahommes is not the smartest ever
          He is not the most accurate ever
          He is not the most competitive ever
          He doesn't have the greatest stats ever

          His "super power" is to make plays off cycle. I think that due to his time with Brett Favre, he had the wisdom to allow that "talent" to flourish.

          Tua threw for more yards, along with a handful of others. Dak and a few others threw for more TDs. But, when it counted, Mahommes hoisted another trophy.

          Getting to the point: In the past, I have argued that Tomlin's biggest error ever was firing Arians. Typically, people respond with stats of other OCs calling plays for Ben... or Dick LeBeau (yes, HE mattered).

          But in Arians, Ben had a guy who would allow him to uses his super power when he wanted/needed.

          I'm not sure that I've ever pieced it together like this. If I did, it was on a whim in someone else's post and apologize for the duplication
          There was a lengthy, good writeup on Mahomes (I'll try to go back and find it) that talked about why he was so unique. They made a big deal of the coaches he had while in college who didn't try to 'fix him' into a classic NFL quarterback. His mechanics are not ideal, his footwork isn't ideal, his release is occasionally awkward. But the coach recognized that Mahomes made it work for himself.
          They also said his background playing baseball is where he learned to make throws off platform, from any angle, and still be highly accurate. In fact, the author said that a player that has played multi-sports in college should be one to value if all else is equal. They talked about how this affects spatial awareness (like knowing where your teammates are on a basketball court). Can't play good football with tunnel vision.

          Comment

          • feltdizz
            Legend
            • May 2008
            • 26961

            #6
            Need a top 3 defense for an Arians offense. Doubt we have the success long term if we kept Arians but I get why folks liked him.
            Steelers 27
            Rats 16

            Comment

            • WindyCitySteel
              Legend
              • Nov 2011
              • 14989

              #7
              I think you're underselling Mahomes quite a bit based on just this year. When he had a better supporting cast he put up the best numbers. Put Mahomes in Dallas this year and they might go undefeated.

              Dak's 36 TDs this year would be good enough for the 5th best in Mahomes' career.

              Comment

              • T.Ferguson
                Pro Bowler
                • Sep 2021
                • 2333

                #8
                Reid lays out the system for Mahommes to succeed in. Mahommes biggest asset to me is his pocket awareness/presence, he's never rattled and he sort of just slips away from pressure to find a WR or throw it away, has to drive defenses crazy. I also think KC's Oline holds like crazy which helps lol.

                I don't think Ben ever really had a great OC to be honest, Arians might have been the best OC he had but Ben was arguably most productive under Haley. Not sure if Ben was ever really coachable though like most NFL QBs, we'll never know. There weren't/aren't very many QBs at the NFL like Ben.

                Comment

                • Eich
                  Legend
                  • Jul 2010
                  • 6824

                  #9
                  The best coaches are always the ones who know how to play to the strengths of their star players. The Rats re-defined their offense to fit what Lamar is good at. I'm not sure what the Steelers are doing anymore with the QB position other than trying to hide it for 3/4 of a game to avoid turnovers.

                  What made Ben great is that he found a way to be himself, regardless of the system he was playing in. He had success with multiple styles and coordinators.

                  Comment

                  • feltdizz
                    Legend
                    • May 2008
                    • 26961

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Eich
                    The best coaches are always the ones who know how to play to the strengths of their star players. The Rats re-defined their offense to fit what Lamar is good at. I'm not sure what the Steelers are doing anymore with the QB position other than trying to hide it for 3/4 of a game to avoid turnovers.

                    What made Ben great is that he found a way to be himself, regardless of the system he was playing in. He had success with multiple styles and coordinators.
                    Well, I think we set up Ben for a conservative offense he just did his thing half the time which upset the coaches but had positive results.

                    Kenny extended plays but it led to bad things happening at a much higher rate than with Ben his rookie year.

                    Still think Kenny can sling it if he is let loose like the first Cincy game. The problem is Kenny keeps getting injured which makes it march harder to see if he could flourish, especially without Canada.
                    Steelers 27
                    Rats 16

                    Comment

                    • Northern_Blitz
                      Legend
                      • Dec 2008
                      • 23498

                      #11
                      Originally posted by WindyCitySteel
                      I think you're underselling Mahomes quite a bit based on just this year. When he had a better supporting cast he put up the best numbers. Put Mahomes in Dallas this year and they might go undefeated.

                      Dak's 36 TDs this year would be good enough for the 5th best in Mahomes' career.
                      IMO, the entire purpose of having an elite QB is that you don't need to spend cap space on the cast around him (skill players at least).

                      Comment

                      • NorthCoast
                        Legend
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 25568

                        #12
                        Was just thinking this morning that the NFL has been dominated by two QBs in the last 25 years of SBs, with an occasional other QB popping up.

                        Comment

                        • Eich
                          Legend
                          • Jul 2010
                          • 6824

                          #13
                          Originally posted by NorthCoast
                          Was just thinking this morning that the NFL has been dominated by two QBs in the last 25 years of SBs, with an occasional other QB popping up.
                          Pretty much Brady and Mahomes. Going back 33 years, you can add Aikman to the list.

                          Super Bowl 27. Troy Aikman (MVP), 4 TDs
                          Super Bowl 28. Troy Aikman (Emmitt Smith), O TDs
                          Super Bowl 29. Steve Young (MVP), 6 TDs
                          Super Bowl 30. Troy Aikman (Larry Brown), 1 TD
                          Super Bowl 31. Brett Favre (Desmond Howard), 2 TDs
                          Super Bowl 32. John Elway (Terrell Davis), 0 TDs
                          Super Bowl 33. John Elway (MVP), 1 TD
                          Super Bowl 34. Kurt Warner (MVP), 2 TDs
                          Super Bowl 35. Trent Dilfer (Ray Lewis), 1 TD
                          Super Bowl 36. Tom Brady (MVP), 1 TD
                          Super Bowl 37. Brad Johnson (Dexter Jackson), 2 TDs
                          Super Bowl 38. Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
                          Super Bowl 39. Tom Brady (Deion Branch), 2 TDs
                          Super Bowl 40. Ben Roethlisberger (Hines Ward), 0 TDs
                          Super Bowl 41. Peyton Manning (MVP), 1 TD
                          Super Bowl 42. Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs
                          Super Bowl 43: Ben Roethlisberger (Santonio Holmes), 1 TD
                          Super Bowl 44: Drew Brees (MVP), 2 TDs
                          Super Bowl 45: Aaron Rogers (MVP), 3TDs
                          Super Bowl 46: Eli Manning (MVP), 1 TD
                          Super Bowl 47: Joe Flacco (MVP), 3TDs
                          Super Bowl 48: Russell Wilson (Malcolm Smith), 2TDs
                          Super Bowl 49: Tom Brady (MVP), 4TDs
                          Super Bowl 50: Peyton Manning (Von Miller), 0TDs
                          Super Bowl 51: Tom Brady (MVP), 2TDs
                          Super Bowl 52: Nick Foles (MVP), 3 TDs
                          Super Bowl 53: Tom Brady (Julian Edelman), 0TDs
                          Super Bowl 54: Patrick Mahomes (MVP), 2 TDs
                          Super Bowl 55: Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
                          Super Bowl 56: Matthew Stafford (Cooper Kupp), 3 TDs
                          Super Bowl 57: Patrick Mahomes (MVP), 3 TDs
                          Super Bowl 58: Patrick Mahomes (MVP), 2 TDs

                          Comment

                          • Ghost
                            Legend
                            • May 2008
                            • 6191

                            #14
                            Originally posted by NorthCoast
                            They also said his background playing baseball is where he learned to make throws off platform, from any angle, and still be highly accurate. In fact, the author said that a player that has played multi-sports in college should be one to value if all else is equal. They talked about how this affects spatial awareness (like knowing where your teammates are on a basketball court). Can't play good football with tunnel vision.
                            Bit off topic - 3 years ago my son was playing football and one of the coaches was high school friends with a guy who plays in MLB (Kyle Farmer - Reds at the time) and had him come speak to the team. He talked a ton about how important it was to play multiple sports growing up (for the reasons you mention and more). He said when he was getting recruited for the University of GA, the coach would not even look at a player that didn?t play at least 1 other sport in high school, no matter how good of a baseball player he might be. It was that important to play multiple sports.
                            sigpic

                            Comment

                            • Captain Lemming
                              Legend
                              • Jun 2008
                              • 15963

                              #15
                              Originally posted by SteelerOfDeVille
                              Anyone watch Mahommes make plays and wonder if he and Andy Reid are just a good pairing? Like if some other person was calling plays, would they try and remove all of his non-standard "magic" that he's allowed to create?

                              Caitlyn Clark's basketball coach called Steve Kerr and asked "how do you coach a player like Steph Curry", who tends to do ridiculous, yet non-traditional stuff.

                              Mahommes is not the smartest ever
                              He is not the most accurate ever
                              He is not the most competitive ever
                              He doesn't have the greatest stats ever

                              His "super power" is to make plays off cycle. I think that due to his time with Brett Favre, he had the wisdom to allow that "talent" to flourish.

                              Tua threw for more yards, along with a handful of others. Dak and a few others threw for more TDs. But, when it counted, Mahommes hoisted another trophy.

                              Getting to the point: In the past, I have argued that Tomlin's biggest error ever was firing Arians. Typically, people respond with stats of other OCs calling plays for Ben... or Dick LeBeau (yes, HE mattered).

                              But in Arians, Ben had a guy who would allow him to uses his super power when he wanted/needed.

                              I'm not sure that I've ever pieced it together like this. If I did, it was on a whim in someone else's post and apologize for the duplication
                              I am the one who always gives you push back on the credit to give Arians.

                              Here are the scoring defensive ranks of all the teams Arians had:

                              2007 2nd
                              2008 1st
                              2009 12th Missed playoffs
                              2010 1st

                              Notice what happened the ONE SEASON Lebeaus defense did not CARRY the offense?

                              Heck same deal BEFORE with Cowher/Wiz.
                              2004, 2005 elite defenses 2006 defensive drop off and they miss the playoff.

                              Ben did not make A SINGLE PLAYOFF without a top 5 defense before Haley MADE HIM PLAY SMARTER. Those offenses carried the defense. All this talk like Ben was handcuffed is ridiculous. Do you remember Martavous Bryant? Arians was a Colt when he was catching those bombs.

                              Crediting Arians is for our success is like bragging you are stronger than me because you bench 50 pounds 10 times and I push 300 twice.

                              If you can win routinely scoring 15 or 16 points it is a low bar to be successful.

                              2011 1st
                              Last edited by Captain Lemming; 02-20-2024, 10:44 AM.
                              sigpic



                              In view of the fact that Mike Tomlin has matched Cowhers record I give him the designation:

                              TCFCLTC-
                              The Coach Formerly Considered Less Than Cowher

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