A different perspective on the second half.....

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  • whisper
    Legend
    • Mar 2020
    • 9423

    #16
    Originally posted by Eich
    I have no issue with turtle-ball if you have Jerome Bettis in his prime and an offensive line that no one can penetrate. Then you just keep getting first downs, draining the life out of the game clock. We have a decent run game but it ain't that. No place for turtle-ball with this team unless we're playing a team that just can't stop our run game when they know it's coming.
    The reason some of us hate turtle ball is we remember its history - and not just Tomlin and the Steelers. Cowher came from the Schottenheimer coaching tree. Marty was a really good coach at one time - one of the very few coaches in the modern era (80's through now) who made the Browns legit contenders. MS built teams with physical Ds and power rushing. Not only did he build teams as such in the later 80's in Cleveland, but he replicated that model in KC as well, where he also turned them into legit contenders. (Remember those KC teams with the "Nigerian Nightmare," Barry Word, Neil Smith, Derrick Thomas, John Alt, Dave Szott, etc.)

    Like the Browns, some of those KC teams also were legit contenders. But...like the Browns, they never got over the hump to make it to the big show. And, increasingly, the blame was placed at the feet of MS for not having enough of a passing threat to do so. Racking up wins in the regular season would be achieved with the great OL play, rushing game and solid D, but come postseason, it seemingly wasn't enough.

    Enter Bill Cowher. He also built teams like MS did. And, come the postseason, he also seemed to fall to the "turtle game" model. We would enter the playoffs, high flying as a contender, and make it to how many AFCC games - many at home - only to come up short. BC had great Ds, OLs and rushing games, but come playoffs, the formular failed. We had decent QBs (O'Donnell) but not franchise QBs. (He did make it to one big show, but lost before Ben.) We never added new hardware until we did in fact add a legit franchise QB. We still could rush the ball, with the likes of the Bus, but to get over the hump, we needed a legit passing threat.

    Any how, for what it's worth, some still feel the pain of the turtle ball mentality, where it often led to loses. Even some of the most prolific teams built with D and rushing had to have that QB that could get it done come the postseason. Cowher thought pure bullheadedness could get the job done, not needing an elite QB. It never produced a ring.

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    • NorthCoast
      Legend
      • Sep 2008
      • 26636

      #17
      Originally posted by Ghost
      Why do they not have a play that can get them 2 yards? 3rd and 2 and it's a throw to Claypool at the line or a bit behind that gets 1 yard. (as a side note - there's no way there was even enough time that play for Samuels to commit PI. BS call). Why not a handoff and if you don't get it you are at the 9 yard line for a an almost guaranteed FG. And then after getting moved back to the 19 why are you not playing it safe to either get a few yards or throw it away and it's still a near lock for Boswell. Suspect play calling at the end.
      Roethlisberger's average depth of target is something like 5 yds so there are plenty of plays that could get it.
      Ball was bouncing Titans way almost the whole game. What about the overthrown to the Titans TE and landed in the Titan WR hands? That had pick written all over it. Even Fitz's gaffe on the miss tackle was because he slowed for what he thought was gonna be a deflected pass. Some games are like that...

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      • Northern_Blitz
        Legend
        • Dec 2008
        • 24373

        #18
        Originally posted by papillon
        Unfortunately, the 2nd half (and, the last play of the 1st half) are not changing because Ben has been doing this for 17 years. You take the good with the bad and hope you can hold on to win, the Steelers held on and won yesterday despite a couple bad decisions by Ben. I am really going to miss him when he finally hangs it up. He makes the game exciting and fun to watch, he'll take a shot downfield at any time on any down and distance. I don't know what the Steelers will look like once he hangs it up but I doubt the games are as exciting.

        Pappy
        Yep. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

        Still, I hope that he got it out of his system in this one and we see the more controlled Ben we had in games 1 - 5 against the Rats.

        Comment

        • NorthCoast
          Legend
          • Sep 2008
          • 26636

          #19
          Originally posted by Northern_Blitz
          Yep. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

          Still, I hope that he got it out of his system in this one and we see the more controlled Ben we had in games 1 - 5 against the Rats.
          The problem is defenses are not static, so that offense won't necessarily be the answer going forward. Did you watch the Browns start to jump the quick slants. The offense has to evolve as the opponents adjust. Eventually, the Steelers will need to start connecting more often down field not because they want to but because they will have to. Why not get those reps in now with the game in their favor?

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          • papillon
            Legend
            • Mar 2008
            • 11340

            #20
            Originally posted by NorthCoast
            The problem is defenses are not static, so that offense won't necessarily be the answer going forward. Did you watch the Browns start to jump the quick slants. The offense has to evolve as the opponents adjust. Eventually, the Steelers will need to start connecting more often down field not because they want to but because they will have to. Why not get those reps in now with the game in their favor?
            Ben had easy completions on both EZ interceptions, he needs to take them regardless of favorable match-ups downfield. If you're trying to catch up because you're behind, that's different, but trying to add to a lead or put the game away, take the 1st down and gimme FG.

            Love Ben, He's in my top 5 of all-time Steelers and I've seen all the great Steelers play. Sometime I wish he would just take what's there and move on.

            Pappy
            sigpic

            The 2025 Pittsburgh Steeler draft

            1.21 - Derrick Harmon, DT, Oregon - Nick Emmanwori, S, S. Carolina
            3.83 - Kaleb Johnson, RB, Iowa - DJ Giddens, RB, Kans St
            3.123 - Will Howard, QB, OSU
            4.156 - JJ Pegues, DT, Ole Miss
            5.185 - Clay Webb, OG, Jack St
            7.229 - Tyrion Ingram-Dawkins, DT, Georgia

            "Football is a physical game, well, it used to be anyways" - Mel Blount

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            • Steel Maniac
              Banned
              • Apr 2017
              • 19472

              #21
              Originally posted by SteelerOfDeVille
              On both plays, I didn't understand why he didn't take the open pass underneath: to Diontae (i think) right before halftime and let him get out of bounds and kick the FG. On the triple coverage pass, I'm fairly certain i recall an underneath route open as well.
              On the play that Ben threw that last pick into triple coverage, look to both the left and right and you'll see either single or no coverage on the other receivers. My point is that Ben left the huddle and was dead set to throw it to Juju. That is a stupid, school yard mindset that I don't expect to see at the pro level.

              Comment

              • hawaiiansteel
                Legend
                • May 2008
                • 35648

                #22
                Originally posted by Steel Maniac
                On the play that Ben threw that last pick into triple coverage, look to both the left and right and you'll see either single or no coverage on the other receivers. My point is that Ben left the huddle and was dead set to throw it to Juju. That is a stupid, school yard mindset that I don't expect to see at the pro level.
                that's because those DBs left their man to help against JuJu once the ball was thrown.

                do you really think the Titans had 3 men assigned to cover JuJu?

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                • NJ-STEELER
                  Legend
                  • May 2008
                  • 12563

                  #23
                  the plays certainly did change in the 2nd half. I'm fine with turtle ball being up that much but they need to move the chains. that's what would end the game without a threat, be it by pass or Run

                  they got the lead with short and intermediate passing. there was no intermediate passing after the half and the titans Defense moved up their coverages and were able to knock the ball away on some of those plays.
                  the shorter routes also make it easier for their DL to deflect balls

                  it wasn't a turnover that sparked that comeback it was the misplayed catch and run by brown

                  Comment

                  • NJ-STEELER
                    Legend
                    • May 2008
                    • 12563

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Steel Maniac
                    On the play that Ben threw that last pick into triple coverage, look to both the left and right and you'll see either single or no coverage on the other receivers. My point is that Ben left the huddle and was dead set to throw it to Juju. That is a stupid, school yard mindset that I don't expect to see at the pro level.

                    once he got the pre snap look he wanted, he probably did decide to go to him.
                    just like he likely did on DJ 2 TDs

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                    • flippy
                      Legend
                      • Dec 2008
                      • 17088

                      #25
                      Ben started flirting with Bad Ben yesterday. From the backward pass to throwing into really tight windows to getting so many passes tipped at the LOS. For as big as Ben is, he gets more passes tipped than most 6' QBs.

                      Overall, we're as good as Ben plays at all times. 1st half, 2nd half, a start or finish to a season. The more consistent and sound Ben can be, the better. I love the plays he makes that no one else could, but it's a fine line. And with the team around him as good as it is, we kinda just need him to be a game manager.
                      sigpic

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                      • Steel Maniac
                        Banned
                        • Apr 2017
                        • 19472

                        #26
                        I agree Flippy. He doesn't have to be Mr. Fantastic with all the weapons around him. Just throw it to the open guy or the guy in one on one coverage. No need to force anything into double or triple coverages.

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                        • NorthCoast
                          Legend
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 26636

                          #27
                          Ebron was open A LOT yesterday.

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