Should the Steelers force Lebeau out?

[feltdizz]

Yup. And he's done this not only in 2013, but in other years too. You never know what position Troy is playing, etc..

Troy has been free to run around for years...

The problem is once Troy leaves.. what then? What about these new kids we are getting... how will they fit into our scheme. DL has a great track record when we have a bunch of talent on our D and they have 5 years under their belt but what about now? What about the new guys next year? Will they be able to play at a high level NEXT year or will we have to wait for another JH, Troy, Farrior combo to fall into our lap for us to have success?

[feltdizz]

I agree, now if you want to give him a hard time for not being able to help evaluate the college talent then I'm on board, otherwise, I can't support just running him out of town because he's 76 years old. There is absolutely no empirical evidence that he can't keep up with the physical demands of the job, that he's forgetting things, that he's not putting in the appropriate hours in the film room or devising game plans, etc., until someone can show me proof that his mental capacity and energy level aren't what it needs to be, he can stay as far as I'm concerned.

And, if you don't like YPG as a criteria, here are the defensive rankings from 2007 through 2013 in points allowed (which, for me is the best measure of a defense).

2007 - 2nd
2008 - 1st
2009 - 12th
2010 - 1st
2011 - 1st
2012 - 6th
2013 - 14th

Out of the top 10 in scoring twice not too shabby and even this year as it appeared they were getting torched they still end up 14th. I can't imagine what a defense that is ranked 20th or 21st, etc must look like.

Pappy

Honestly Pappy.. I don't think a 20th or 21st D "appears" much worse than ours. You said it best... last year we "appeared" top have a bad D and somehow we still managed to be 14th. Now, is it because we weren't as bad as we thought or was it because we played great D vs a few bad teams to push our ranking up a bit?

I don't have that answer but IMO if something appears to look bad it's because it IS bad. Being 14th isn't Steeler D.

14th...23.1
20th...24.2

IMO that stat doesn't hold much weight... I prefer the eye test and if I see this D playing subpar ball I can't find one stat that will make me believe this D was better than what I witnessed on the field.

[don2016]

At this point I don't think it really matter if Dick is there or not. The Defense is in a state of rebuild mode. My theory is this...if your going to clean house...do exactley that...clean house. Start from scratch. There will always be a price to pay for having a great team for an extended period of time and that price is lousy seasons. Even though 8-8 isnt lousy it is still considered sub-par for Pittsburgh. This team has heart and pride and it will rebuild ...it is just going to take time and a few 8-8 seasons to come.

[feltdizz]

I think now is the perfect time to move on since we are in a rebuilding mode on D. How much longer do we expect him to coach?

[squidkid]

I think now is the perfect time to move on since we are in a rebuilding mode on D. How much longer do we expect him to coach?

when we do change, i want the 4-3.
if we are staying 3-4, might just as well keep DL and pray for some great drafts

[sick beats]

when we do change, i want the 4-3.
if we are staying 3-4, might just as well keep DL and pray for some great drafts

There is something so powerful about a 4-3 that doesn't even need to blitz to get to the QB. When your front 4 are that good, it allows you so much strength in the back 7. Tampa won a SB doing that. I know there is more than 1 way to skin a cat, but I also wish we could run a 4-3 that doesn't need to blitz.

[feltdizz]

when we do change, i want the 4-3.
if we are staying 3-4, might just as well keep DL and pray for some great drafts

Even if we stay in the 3-4 we only have a few more years with DL. Seems like the perfect time to replace DL since we are rebuilding.

[pfelix73]

Troy has been free to run around for years...

The problem is once Troy leaves.. what then? What about these new kids we are getting... how will they fit into our scheme. DL has a great track record when we have a bunch of talent on our D and they have 5 years under their belt but what about now? What about the new guys next year? Will they be able to play at a high level NEXT year or will we have to wait for another JH, Troy, Farrior combo to fall into our lap for us to have success?

As someone stated earlier... We do need some leaders on defense. If this means bringing in another Farrior-type then by all means they need to do it. We just don't know enough about what goes on under DL def. not unless you are a player under him as far as what goes on. Sure Troy plays all over, but so do some others. I remember seeing Kiesel playing in a LB position a few times, etc. etc....Opposing QB always trying to figure out who the Mike LB is on any given play. DC's move guys all over at times...

[feltdizz]

As someone stated earlier... We do need some leaders on defense. If this means bringing in another Farrior-type then by all means they need to do it. We just don't know enough about what goes on under DL def. not unless you are a player under him as far as what goes on. Sure Troy plays all over, but so do some others. I remember seeing Kiesel playing in a LB position a few times, etc. etc....Opposing QB always trying to figure out who the Mike LB is on any given play. DC's move guys all over at times...

The problem is moving guys around isnt creating pressure or TO's...

I think we need to use FA more than we have in the past... we need guys to contribute immediately and it wont happen through the draft.

[Shoe]

1st 17th 10-6
1st 22nd 12-4
5th 7th 9-7
2nd 14th 12-4
1st 12th 12-4
1st 21st 8-8
13th 20th 8-8

the first column represents the steelers overall ranking on defense(yards allowed) the second offense(yards gained) and the third, the steelers regular season record.
these are all under tomlin.

one time in this seven year span the defense was ranked out of the top 10.
only once was the offense in the top ten.
so lets run DL out because his scheme doesnt work.
lets only use the 'stability' theory on tomlin when it comes to coaching although his product has been on a downward sprial much longer than DL.
lets draft all defense because ummm, because the offense is worse than the defense and has been every year but 1

oh, and lets give kirby an OC gig because he is a great RB coach and deserves it(because our rushing yards ranked 3, 23, 19, 11, 14, 26, and 27th).

im not happy watching all our draft picks do nothing on defense for a few years either, but its hard to argue that statistically this team wins because of DL defense.
his record here epitomizes legendary status and every person in the business agrees. talk about knee jerk reaction

First of all, let's not throw around the defensive rankings, over what we all watch on a weekly basis. Yes, I suppose statistically, we ranked #1 the season before this one. But let's be real: not one among us would call last year's defense even very good (at best, some might say it was above average).

So let's not pretend that anyone is making a knee-jerk reaction, by questioning whether a 75 year-old man (in a young man's world) is the best man for the job. And while I'll agree that his decline has mirrored a decline in talent (i.e. team speed on defense, which results in a glaring lack of turnovers), pretending that age isn't a factor only gives us more problems. It is like saying, "Troy Polamalu has made the Pro Bowl in 2010, 2011, and 2013... we have nothing to worry about at SS."

His record (i.e. ranking) would indicate that he is still at the top of his craft. But we all know, that he is in decline as a player and athlete. Yet for whatever reason, we refuse to believe it in this case. It is sad to say because, we also know that when old people lose the thing that drives them, they die. So I realize that it is a dicey road, especially because the man still can coach. I just think Butler is a better candidate for the job right now, and it probably isn't even close.