There's Still A Leadership Void

[Mr.wizard]

I know you are dead on felt. Here is what Moats said about Joey Porter



There are a lot of people, many athletes in particular, who do get fired up by people running their mouth or doing a celebration dance. If you think Steeler linemen didn't respond to Bettis gaining some tough yards and get up and do his little shuffle shaking his head I don't know what to say. Emotional leadership plays a huge part in sports. Why are teams home records usually better than their away records? The home crowd fires them up ... we all know that. That's the same thing that good vocal leaders do.

Sure, in practice and the weight room you have the leaders by example whom you follow but once you get out on that field you need to get a little extra. Hampton holding the line of scrimmage and tackling the runner for no gain is great. People loved the way he did his job but it didn't add anything extra. Hampton busting through the line and sacking the QB in the SB, then bouncing up and down and yelling drove the defensive players into a frenzy.

I also believe that emotions and leaders who can tap into players emotions play a big part in what is known as "momentum". Why is it that a teams running game can get stuffed for 3 quarters and then all of a sudden things change? Your RB breaks a tackle rips off a 5 yard gain. Then the linemen pick up their pace and start opening up holes. Then the play action pass opens up and pretty soon you score. Face it, its an emotional game with an ebb and flow. A leader who can connect with and fire up the players emotions can be the difference between winning some games and losing them. It causes you to win 1 or 2 more games a year it can mean the difference between sitting at home or playing in the SB. I still say Ray Lewis ended up being the difference between the Raven sitting home for the post season in 2012 and winning the SB. He had that type of ability to light a fire under the whole team.

I don't know of anyone on the Steelers who can do this. That's not to say that one can't develop. Ben has something but I think it is more a confidence that the players believe Ben will come through for them but not that he inspires them. Maybe Heyward can be the guy.

Ya but in everyone of those cases the production came first, Joey porter for instance, when he was performing at a high level he was considered by some a leader but towards the end of his career with a different team he wasn't. What your talking about is an emotional spark on the field rather than leadership, we see it all the time during games a fiery speech, a fight, a dance, a big play ,etc... but as every athlete knows that is short lived and that adrenaline wears off fairly quickly. The big play has to happen before the emotion, for instance if Jerome Bettis gets hit for a 2 yard loss and then starts doing the fire dance it doesnt get guys fired up no matter how much he dances and screams.

[Mr.wizard]

Troy plays awe-inspiring ball. But the players response is, "No big deal, that is just Troy being Troy." And yet, do you think you will find Troy telling another player to get their crap together and fly straight? Not likely. For that reason, I don't think he is really a leader. Hines Ward WOULD tell other players to step it up. Do you think Mike Wallace would ever be a leader? I don't, no matter how well he produced. He is the opposite of a leader. Ray Lewis lead a team to a Super Bowl win, when they weren't even that good of a team, as we saw how fast the fell in the season after he left.

This is where you are overstating leadership, Ray lewis yelled and screamed for 17 years and the ravens won the superbowl twice. Where was the effects of the leadership during those other 15 years. You say the ravens fell after he left? You do realize the ravens had a lot of mediocre years with ray lewis, and lets not discount the fact that the ravens have made the playoffs every year since flacco joined the team. Will Mike Wallace be a leader, I don't know but I certainly don't think he is the opposite of leader which is a follower. Wallace strikes me as the type who will just go out and do his job doesnt need to lead or follow anyone. Hines ward another guy considered a great leader but really didn't become a champion until ben got there, Not taking anything away from ward I love the guy but It wasn't leadership or any amount of yelling at other guys that got the steelers over the hump, It was a QB.

[RobinCole]

I always had the feeling that a lot of Ravens players were inwardly laughing at Ray-Ray all those years. After he retired, Flacco said "Half the time I had no idea what he was saying." Sheer repetition of choreographed "entrances" and high-pitched screaming wears thin after a time. Yes, Porter did the "who ride?" thing and the players joined in but it seemed that he and they thought of it as comedy that loosened them up rather than fired them up. Ray, on the other hand, took himself way too seriously. He was an ineffective old guy in the Super Bowl against SF and probably hurt the team more than helped.

[Mr.wizard]

I always had the feeling that a lot of Ravens players were inwardly laughing at Ray-Ray all those years. After he retired, Flacco said "Half the time I had no idea what he was saying." Sheer repetition of choreographed "entrances" and high-pitched screaming wears thin after a time. Yes, Porter did the "who ride?" thing and the players joined in but it seemed that he and they thought of it as comedy that loosened them up rather than fired them up. Ray, on the other hand, took himself way too seriously. He was an ineffective old guy in the Super Bowl against SF and probably hurt the team more than helped.

Ya I agree that's all great for TV stuff, like when you see drew brees doing all the hyped up pregame chants with 15 cameras floating around. It's all well and good but I don't think it has any bearing on the outcome of the game, because guess what, there are guys on the other sideline just as fired up.

[Mr.wizard]

Sorry Mr. Wizard but I think you and JPN are missing what Sick Beats is saying. He never said you only needed leaders and not talent. Of course you need talent. You also need leaders who can maximize the talent that the team does have. The Patriots are a prime example. They don't have the most talent in the league. The past few years their defense has been bad, their receivers average at best, and even their offensive line wasn't that talented. So how do they consistently win double digit games every year and are a force in the AFC? I think the answer is that they have some great leaders. Why do some teams seem to have a lot of talent but never seem to put it together and win (i.e. Lions or Bengals)? I think it is because they lack the necessary leadership -- both on and off the field.

There is no question that the Steelers have regressed talent wise. They have also fallen off from a leadership perspective. Ben is a great player and the QB I want on the field late in the 4th quarter but I would never confuse him with a team leader. The same goes for Troy. A great player but not someone who is going to fire the team up and get them to play above their talent level.

As much as I hate to say this Ray Lewis was a great leader for the Ratbirds. He was able to lift that team up emotionally and have them play way beyond their talent level to win the SB a couple of years ago. He wasn't a great player when he did that. At most he was average at that point in his career.

Face it, there is not a lot of difference between the most and least talented teams in the NFL. So not only do the Steelers need to increase the talent on the team they need to find more leaders like Ward and Porter and Lloyd and Farrior and Cowher. Finding leaders, whether it be players or coaches, can be the difference between making the playoffs or not ... winning the SB or losing it.

No, I know exactly what he saying, He said we should be bringing leaders in. My point is you cant just grab leaders off the street, leaders develop on a team because of how they produce on the field. You first have to be a talented player you must produce at a high consistent level and then guys may follow you. Again with the Cowher era steelers those teams were not consistently winning because of leadership, they where winning because we had a suffocating defense and a good running game. Leadership never got those teams over the hump, Never! Bringing in Big Ben finally won Cowher a superbowl it had nothing to do with leadership because like I said those guys were on the team for a long time and could not win the big one.

[Captain Lemming]

I always had the feeling that a lot of Ravens players were inwardly laughing at Ray-Ray all those years. After he retired, Flacco said "Half the time I had no idea what he was saying." Sheer repetition of choreographed "entrances" and high-pitched screaming wears thin after a time. Yes, Porter did the "who ride?" thing and the players joined in but it seemed that he and they thought of it as comedy that loosened them up rather than fired them up. Ray, on the other hand, took himself way too seriously. He was an ineffective old guy in the Super Bowl against SF and probably hurt the team more than helped.

I saw Hoge say the same thing when discussing Ray. Interestingly, he then recalled Lloyd giving speeches and how it made no difference in their actual play.

The best dynasties of all time the 70s Steelers, 80s Niners, and the 90 Cowboys, nobody was ranting like a maniac.
Patriots where winning SBs when Brady was a kid, not so much as he became a more vocal leader. Peyton's "leadership" leads to a team that is a choking mess.

The best leaders are CALM under pressure. Yelling is a panic reaction.

Joe Montana, losing the SB, time running out looks up and tells the guys; "look that John Candy in the stands". Niner players say they were calmed from their anxiety because he in affect communicated, "don't worry we got this."

Ben showed leadership in going RIGHT BACK TO SANTONIO after his drop in the SB. "I trust you" was the silent message. So much better than chewing the dude out ala Peyton.

Porter contributed leadership with his PLAY that won games not his mouth during that SB playoff.

Porters MOUTH was there every year in the playoffs. That season his postseason play was MUCH better than previous seasons.

[hawaiiansteel]

Lawrence Timmons is embracing the role of mentor for the Steelers young linebackers

By Jack Finn on Jun 16 2014



Entering his 8th season, Lawrence Timmons is the most experienced linebacker on the Steelers roster. After being tutored early in his career by some all-time great Steelers linebackers, it is now his turn to step up and be a mentor for the Steelers young linebacking corps, a task he is read to embrace.

Entering his 8th season, and at 28 years old, Lawrence Timmons has seen and done a lot in his time with the Pittsburgh Steelers.

He's been the young up and comer, only 20 years old when he was drafted. He's played with the some of the best defensive players in the league in Troy Polomalu, James Farrior and James Harrison. He was an active member of a historically great defense in 2008. He has put together a string of impressive individual years in his own right, and hell, he's even been to two Super Bowls.

Now Timmons is facing an entirely different challenge. WIth the departure of LaMarr Woodley, Timmons is now the only veteran presence in a linebacker corps that is scarily inexperienced. As an illustration, Lawrence Timmons has 435 career tackles over the last 7 seasons. The other 13 linebackers currently on the roster have a combined career total of 254.

The Steelers have made a concerted effort to infuse youth and talent into their linebacking corps, spending 5 draft picks in the last 3 years on linebackers, two of which were in the 1st round.

What Jarvis Jones, Vince Williams and Ryan Shazier need, and yes Arthur Moats and Jason Worilds too, is a mentor and a leader. Someone to act as an example in practice, through effort and commitment, and someone to lead them on and off the field, much like James Farrior did when Timmons was a rookie.

Per the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Timmons is stepping up and embracing his role as a mentor.

He makes sure he's first in line for every drill, so he can show the young linebacker's how it's supposed to be done.

"Yeah, I'm the older guy now," said Timmons. "I'm the type of guy that likes to lead by example. I like to let my work ethic speak for itself, just things of that nature like the way I go about practice, and show these guys how to do it."

It's not just about being loud and vocal on the practice field though, Timmons recognises that being a leader and a mentor is about more than on-the-field issues. That's why he encourages the younger players to come to him for guidance.

[On coming to him for advice] "yeah, a lot of guys, especially the young guys, I try to do anything I can for them -- on the field, off the field, anything."

Of course Timmons still retains his personal ambitions.

"I just want to be great," he said. "I want to stand out, be a great leader for this defense, and I'm just trying to leave it all out on the field."

At this point in his career, Timmons is well suited to mentoring the Steelers youthful linebacking corps. He did his time, so to speak, when he was a rookie sitting behind the starters and learning the defense. He also spent 5 years with a great defensive captain in Farrior, which will have shown him how a great leader behaves, both on and off the field. And finally his great work ethic and established track record on the field will legitimise him with the Steelers rookies, giving him a sense of authority.

The Steelers linebacking corps, and its defense, are at a critical jucture just now. The team needs Lawrence Timmons to continue to teach and guide the young linebackers like Shazier and Jones.

[URL]http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/latest-news/2014/6/16/5814392/lawrence-timmons-has-been-embracing-the-role-of-a-mentor[/URL]

[feltdizz]

This is where you are overstating leadership, Ray lewis yelled and screamed for 17 years and the ravens won the superbowl twice. Where was the effects of the leadership during those other 15 years. You say the ravens fell after he left? You do realize the ravens had a lot of mediocre years with ray lewis, and lets not discount the fact that the ravens have made the playoffs every year since flacco joined the team. Will Mike Wallace be a leader, I don't know but I certainly don't think he is the opposite of leader which is a follower. Wallace strikes me as the type who will just go out and do his job doesnt need to lead or follow anyone. Hines ward another guy considered a great leader but really didn't become a champion until ben got there, Not taking anything away from ward I love the guy but It wasn't leadership or any amount of yelling at other guys that got the steelers over the hump, It was a QB.

2 SB victories over a 17 year career is pretty damn good.

[sick beats]

Timmons is ready to bring it. Beachum, Foster and Pouncy will make noise. Heyward was a two-time captain at OSU. Brown is stepping up as the leader for wide outs. Jarvis Jones ain't no rookie any more. Good leaders at coaching with Porter and Lake. Bell and Blount will tow the line. Miller is solid, if not overly vocal. We will be fine this year on the leadership front. Ben will pretend he is a leader on camera before each game.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Timmons is ready to bring it. Beachum, Foster and Pouncy will make noise. Heyward was a two-time captain at OSU. Brown is stepping up as the leader for wide outs. Jarvis Jones ain't no rookie any more. Good leaders at coaching with Porter and Lake. Bell and Blount will tow the line. Miller is solid, if not overly vocal. We will be fine this year on the leadership front. Ben will pretend he is a leader on camera before each game.

You are suggesting that Jarvis Jones is a leader because he "ain't no rookie any more" but Ben is just pretending for the cameras? Alrighty then...