Not good in Pittsburgh

[Captain Lemming]

Cowher's biggest flaw was always the QB position and much of that was his fault. No doubt. When that finally got resolved, you saw what happened.... a SB. Tomlin was hand delivered a team full of solid players, leadership AND a franchise QB. He didn't have to build a damn thing. He was given the keys to a damn good team and didn't have to do much except to sit back and let his leaders run the show and not screw it up. He did that and was successful. Now, it's becoming clear that he can't build a team even with a franchise QB. The results are crystal clear.

You are discussing two different functions. Coaching versus building a team.
Do not forget Tomlin took over an 8-8 team NOT a SB team. He did a great job of coaching that team back to the Superbowl twice

The Steelers HAVE made poor choices in recent years in team building. THAT responsibility traditionally lies with the GM using coaches feedback. This is why some powerful coaches have INSISTED on being GM too. Parcels famously quipped "if I'm gonna cook the meal I want to be able to buy the groceries."

While I dont KNOW this to be the case, with the Steelers it seems likely considering Tomlin was a rookie coach.

Nevertheless, if you want to blame Tomlin for the talent, if you think Tomlin is to blame and Colbert is a great GM, give Colbert the final say, problem solved. Talent not coaching is the problem. You essentially acknowledge this in your post saying Tomlin cannot BUILD a team.

[Steelhere10]

You are discussing two different functions. Coaching versus building a team.
Do not forget Tomlin took over an 8-8 team NOT a SB team. He did a great job of coaching that team back to the Superbowl twice

The Steelers HAVE made poor choices in recent years in team building. THAT responsibility traditionally lies with the GM using coaches feedback. This is why some powerful coaches have INSISTED on being GM too. Parcels famously quipped "if I'm gonna cook the meal I want to be able to buy the groceries."

While I dont KNOW this to be the case, with the Steelers it seems likely considering Tomlin was a rookie coach.

Nevertheless, if you want to blame Tomlin for the talent, if you think Tomlin is to blame and Colbert is a great GM, give Colbert the final say, problem solved. Talent not coaching is the problem. You essentially acknowledge this in your post saying Tomlin cannot BUILD a team.

Nice post.

[Vader]

You are discussing two different functions. Coaching versus building a team.
Do not forget Tomlin took over an 8-8 team NOT a SB team. He did a great job of coaching that team back to the Superbowl twice

The Steelers HAVE made poor choices in recent years in team building. THAT responsibility traditionally lies with the GM using coaches feedback. This is why some powerful coaches have INSISTED on being GM too. Parcels famously quipped "if I'm gonna cook the meal I want to be able to buy the groceries."

While I dont KNOW this to be the case, with the Steelers it seems likely considering Tomlin was a rookie coach.

Nevertheless, if you want to blame Tomlin for the talent, if you think Tomlin is to blame and Colbert is a great GM, give Colbert the final say, problem solved. Talent not coaching is the problem. You essentially acknowledge this in your post saying Tomlin cannot BUILD a team.

He took over a team one year removed from a SB with a franchise QB. Who was on that SB that wasn't on the one Tomlin inherited? Plus he gets James Harrison finally understanding the playbook. I get sick of people bringing up Tomlin inherited an 8-8 team. He got a team that had it's QB almost get killed in a motorcycle accident, emergency appendectomy surgery, and a concussion early in the year. They rallied to a 6-2 finish. He didn't take over some run of the mill team. Almost every core player on the 08 SB team was drafted before Tomlin arrived.

Also for some reason Colbert forgot how to draft when Tomlin arrived. I've discussed this before. They go from drafting great players like Troy, Miller, Ben etc.. and start drafting bums like Hood. I know Tomlin has input because I saw him at Timmons pro-day gushing like a kid in a candy store. Then at the draft they run the card up to take him. The entire philosophy changes when Tomlin arrives.

[Captain Lemming]

He took over a team one year removed from a SB with a franchise QB. Who was on that SB that wasn't on the one Tomlin inherited? Plus he gets James Harrison finally understanding the playbook. I get sick of people bringing up Tomlin inherited an 8-8 team. He got a team that had it's QB almost get killed in a motorcycle accident, emergency appendectomy surgery, and a concussion early in the year. They rallied to a 6-2 finish. He didn't take over some run of the mill team. Almost every core player on the 08 SB team was drafted before Tomlin arrived.

Also for some reason Colbert forgot how to draft when Tomlin arrived. I've discussed this before. They go from drafting great players like Troy, Miller, Ben etc.. and start drafting bums like Hood. I know Tomlin has input because I saw him at Timmons pro-day gushing like a kid in a candy store. Then at the draft they run the card up to take him.

Yes Ben got into an accident. Why? He IGNORED Cowher, no respect. People attack Tomlin for not screamming at his players? You mentioned Harrison? Really? Maybe JUST maybe had Harrisons been given a chance instead of being on the bench after getting cut repeatedly, we MIGHT have been better than 8-8. No but Clark Haggins was too good to displace?

As I stated, if you think Tomlin builds the team now (I dont know why we need a GM if he does the GMs job). But for the sake of argument lets say Tomlin chose these players despite Colbert. All the a Rooneys need to do is give final say to Colbert. YOU SAID he coached "Cowhers team" to the SB, so Tomlin can coach a team to a championship. Problem solved.

[Vader]

Yes Ben got into an accident. Why? He IGNORED Cowher, no respect. People attack Tomlin for not screamming at his players? You mentioned Harrison? Really? Maybe JUST maybe had Harrisons been given a chance instead of being on the bench after getting cut repeatedly, we MIGHT have been better than 8-8. No but Clark Haggins was too good to displace?

As I stated, if you think Tomlin builds the team now (I dont know why we need a GM if he does the GMs job). But for the sake of argument lets say Tomlin chose these players despite Colbert. All the a Rooneys need to do is give final say to Colbert. YOU SAID he coached "Cowhers team" to the SB, so Tomlin can coach a team to a championship. Problem solved.

So could Barry Switzer. The team was already there. He just needed not to screw it up. The idea that the Steelers don't allow the HC to help draft is just ridiculous. I guess Colbert just forgot how to draft when Tomlin got here. I guess Tomlin didn't go to Timmons pro-day? It was Colbert who picked him without listening to the coach that WAS THERE. Tomlin also said that Hood had NO holes. But of course he would have drafted him it must have been that ****ing Colbert idiot that did it all on his own without any input from the HC. Just ridiculous.

[Captain Lemming]

So could Barry Switzer. The team was already there. He just needed not to screw it up. The idea that the Steelers don't allow the HC to help draft is just ridiculous. I guess Colbert just forgot how to draft when Tomlin got here. I guess Tomlin didn't go to Timmons pro-day? It was Colbert who picked him without listening to the coach that WAS THERE. Tomlin also said that Hood had NO holes. But of course he would have drafted him it must have been that ****ing Colbert idiot that did it all on his own without any input from the HC. Just ridiculous.

Switzer took over a reining champion. He went to ONE SB. Then records of 10-6, and 6-10.
Tomlin took a team that won a SB, then was 8-8 under Cowher.
It took Tomlin 6 years to drop to the 8-8 record he inherited, no comparison to Switzer whose team began nosediving soon after he got it.

You wanna blame Ben's injury for the 8-8? What happenned to the DEFENSE.
It was one of the worst DEFENSES of the Ben era (9th) in that 8-8 season.

Under Tomlin the DEFENSE went from 9th ranked in Cowhers 8-8 season to number one in Tomlin season 1. In season 2 of Tomlin the defense was number one AGAIN. That matches the number of times (2) that Cowher had a number one defense in 13 years. But we are just talking Tomlins first two seasons. Tomlin would be number one FOUR times. In total Tomlin has had the number one DEFENSE more times than ANY Steeler coach. Nolls steel curtain featuring FOUR HOFers was the number one defense three times, Cowher's twice. AND Tomlins defense was number one FOUR times in only SIX years. And PLEASE dont talk turnovers because BC had Rod stkin Woodson. Also Cowher and Tomlins early teams created fumbles with bone crushing hits. These are illegal in todays NFL.

So Tomlin took a team in decline DEFENSIVELY (never mind Ben) and brought it to elite status in ONE SEASON while losing Cowhers best pass rusher. In fact Tomlin LOST BOTH of Cowhers SB outside linebackers. One of them (Porter) WAS THE MOST VALUABLE DEFENSIVE PLAYER IN THE PLAYOFFS leading to the SB. He replaced them with Harrison (who Cowher cut repeatedly and never gave a chance) and drafted Woodley. The impact of those two were keys to the defensive resurgence. Ike Taylor was an inconsistent joke under Cowher who never showed confidence in him. Ike has been MUCH BETTER under Tomlins coaching style.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

The idea that the Steelers don't allow the HC to help draft is just ridiculous. I guess Colbert just forgot how to draft when Tomlin got here.

There is a difference between the HC having input and helping to the notion that he is the man.

Going back to Cowher. Cowher became the coach in '92, where he worked under Tom Donahoe. After winning a power struggle, Cowher essentially hired Colbert to be his own boss. So, after 8 seasons I would think that it is fair to think that Cowher was the loudest voice in the room, with only someone named Rooney holding veto power (which apparently happened in 2004).

You hear posters refer to draft picks by the coach. "Timmons was Tomlin's pick". Timmons was drafted in Tomlin's first off-season, into a D that was not his design. I would understand if Tomlin gave his opinion, but I would not think that the Steelers FO allowed Tomlin the ultimate say over this pick. As far as hierarchy goes, IMO Tomlin still would rank behind Colbert in the draft room, whereas I believe that Colbert was behind Cowher.