Not good in Pittsburgh

[flippy]

Regardless the Rooneys know who is responsible, so if a move is made my guess is that who had final say in building this team will bear the burden if it continues south.

I'd guess the Rooney's have to know whats going on and it'd be interesting to see someone interview them to get the real story. Not that they'd ever tell it. My suspicion would be that Dan might be the only one to truly know what's going on and would be the one who could most likely set everything straight if he desired.

[Slapstick]

One thing that has improved? Penalties...

Gilbert's was bogus an Woodley's was justified...

[DBR96A]

While we're busy raking Mike Tomlin over hot coals for drafting Jason Worilds, can anybody tell me who wanted [URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackAl23.htm"]this guy[/URL]?

[SteelCrazy]

There's not a problem until 0-2 turns into 2-8. Lets see how the next few weeks pan out before we start throwing coaches and GM's off of bridges.

[Shawn]

Ok, lets cut Don a break. He had a point, then strayed from it. I believe he is actually onto something. I have always been a Tomlin fan. I believe he is a good face for the organization, intelligent and well spoken. I think he also knows football. But, Don said something that struck a chord. Many of the problems began when Cowher's guys started to retire. That leadership void was noted by many. The question that pops into my mind, is where are the real leaders of this squad? Where are the guys who will bring a Super Bowl mentality to the next gen of player? And what is Tomlin's responsibility in drafting and growing up leaders on this squad? I believe that is a relevant question.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Ok, lets cut Don a break. He had a point, then strayed from it. I believe he is actually onto something. I have always been a Tomlin fan. I believe he is a good face for the organization, intelligent and well spoken. I think he also knows football. But, Don said something that struck a chord. Many of the problems began when Cowher's guys started to retire. That leadership void was noted by many. The question that pops into my mind, is where are the real leaders of this squad? Where are the guys who will bring a Super Bowl mentality to the next gen of player? And what is Tomlin's responsibility in drafting and growing up leaders on this squad? I believe that is a relevant question.

I agree with much of this Shawn. I did not think that it was a huge deal when guys like Farrior (undisputed leader of the D), Hines, Smith, etc. all left around the same time, but I look back on that as a turning point. Not only does a team need its leaders, but those leaders have to be leading in the right direction. You can't have a leader who sets poor examples - not practicing hard, taking foolish personal foul penalties, whining too much etc. We had a solid core of characters, and I'm not sure where that is right now.

And this is regardless of whether they are Cowher guys or Tomlin guys.

[Shawn]

I agree with much of this Shawn. I did not think that it was a huge deal when guys like Farrior (undisputed leader of the D), Hines, Smith, etc. all left around the same time, but I look back on that as a turning point. Not only does a team need its leaders, but those leaders have to be leading in the right direction. You can't have a leader who sets poor examples - not practicing hard, taking foolish personal foul penalties, whining too much etc. We had a solid core of characters, and I'm not sure where that is right now.

And this is regardless of whether they are Cowher guys or Tomlin guys.

Agreed. What few are looking at is this is how the Bengals played like the Bengals for many years. They had some talent, but always found a way of giving up seasons. There was a loser mentality in Cinci for years due to leadership voids and a passing down of a losing mentality. It's now like this has been a switched, and what the Steelers have lost the Bengals have picked up. That concerns me. I have no idea how much of that falls on Tomlins shoulders. Not even sure it's fair to judge Tomlin as a coach over it. But, I will say this in any organization the buck stops at top and Tomlin needs to own it and address it. And his first move needs to be to go in a different direction with his OC, and start at the top.

[hausparty]

The draft is important in winning football games but I'm so sick of hearing about how bad our drafts are in comparison to Tomlin vs Cowher. Who cares? REALLY! The Steelers win because we are smart with our players after the draft. Do we pay for HIGH PRICE guys EVER? NOPE! We take Average players who are CHEAP AS HECK and they learn a system. To fault our offensive system is something we can debate under Haley and i'll be at the top of the list but to say we draft poorly is really a NONFACTOR. If HOOD, HEYWARD, WORILDS or anyone else was amazing they would be LET GO anyway because we couldnt afford them. I for one love that AVERAGE PLAYER who is above the line and making little money. When those BIG $$ players get hurt you better have those above average guys on the bench ready to step it up. Lets go over some high price guys.

James Harrison - What has he done in 3 games for 4 million? compared to Jarvis Jones.
Santonio Holmes - WHat has he really done since the SB catch? How many millions did he get with the Jets? Step in BROWN, WALLACE, and SANDERS bargin price at the time and huge payout.
William Gay - Let go because of price and back at a bargain price.
Larry Foote - see note above. A team who never believed in bringing players back realize that cheap price for a player knowing the system is SMART.
Randle EL - same as above
Faneca - Was still SOLID after leaving the Stelers but how many SB's did we appear in after he left again?

I'll let you guys post more but this franchise WINS because we find the value player who buys into a system and once they get too big for themselves we let them go! We have done this for how many years now? It has nothing to do with Cowher vs Tomlin. It's the PITTSBURGH STEELERS and why I love them. The better our drafts the more risk we have of losing those players IMO and that's exactly why teams like the cowboys lose all the darn time. Case in point play FANDUEL or any cap fantasy league one time and draft a team with just 60K. Doesnt matter who we draft, we only have so much money to spend and the Steelers have been the Steelers because we know when to say GOOD BYE! It might cost us this year but this formula is smart and its proven to WIN! We spend every penny of our budget and every year we talk about cutting someone to make room under the cap. We can't be an ALL PRO team every year. Would you guys pay that much for Wallace? Is it costing us right now? maybe but it was a smart call and has nothing to do with the draft. WE DRAFTED HIM! We drafted a player who wanted top 5 WR money. Great job STEELERS! By drating awesome hurt us in this situation did it not? THINK ABOUT IT.



That simple!

AHMAD BRADSHAW cost the Colts how much? Where is he going to be sitting this week? BENCH! Where is our ROOKIE? On the bench! How much did we save? That allowed us to get our backup Center! SMART BUSINESS 101.

[Shoe]

The Steelers win because we are smart with our players after the draft. Do we pay for HIGH PRICE guys EVER? NOPE! We take Average players who are CHEAP AS HECK and they learn a system.

I was about to make this same point. In the past, it seemed we always had the ability to lock players up favorably (e.g. home team discount). You make great points about letting guys go at the right time. I think one point about the drafting recently, is that we've taken guys from major schools who were perceived as "slipping", which aren't the Steeler way necessarily. I'm talking Limas Sweed (Texas), Mike Adams (Ohio St.), Bruce Davis (UCLA)... IMO, guys from major schools are, for the most part, what they are. In the case of Sweed for example, 80+ teams passed on this guy with the supposed talent that he had. His tape isn't hidden.

Those selections should be replaced by selections from Maine, Kent, Fort Valley St, etc. Gems we've "uncovered" through actual scouting (rather than off Mel Kiper's Big Board). I think there is a flaw in the draft strategy lately.

[feltdizz]

I was about to make this same point. In the past, it seemed we always had the ability to lock players up favorably (e.g. home team discount). You make great points about letting guys go at the right time. I think one point about the drafting recently, is that we've taken guys from major schools who were perceived as "slipping", which aren't the Steeler way necessarily. I'm talking Limas Sweed (Texas), Mike Adams (Ohio St.), Bruce Davis (UCLA)... IMO, guys from major schools are, for the most part, what they are. In the case of Sweed for example, 80+ teams passed on this guy with the supposed talent that he had. His tape isn't hidden.

Those selections should be replaced by selections from Maine, Kent, Fort Valley St, etc. Gems we've "uncovered" through actual scouting (rather than off Mel Kiper's Big Board). I think there is a flaw in the draft strategy lately.

Bingo... every player that slipped to us hasn't lived up to our hype. They slip for a reason... other teams see flaws and we shouldn't feel "lucky" when a guy we swear will be long gone ends up available when we pick.