Ben said his arm strength led to INT's against Dallas and Cincy

[steelz09]

You really hate Big Ben don't you...I am not sure you even read the article...You are mouthing off just by reading the headline..

Can you tell me how many times Ben took Steelers out of Field Goal range by taking a sack..one/two/three times???

You are saying majority of the sacks are on Ben because he was holding the ball too long whereas O-line was okay??? Hahahahahaa....

Carry on with your Ben hating agenda...

You just don't get it do you? It's not a 'hate' Ben agenda. It's a 'hate' Tomlin agenda. It's not a hate Wallace or Mendenhall 'agenda'. It's humorous that people thinking your a "hater" because you critique a certain player, coach, etc. We aren't that good of a team and it showed last year. There is a lot to critique. Trust me. You can keep the Steelers blinders on and think "all is good" if you want..

Ben is one of our best players if not THE best. If he's hurt, we have no chance at a SB just like most franchises when they lose their franchise QB. With that being said, Ben doesn't do himself many favors on several fronts and I critique him on those fronts because I wish he'd improve them because it would make himself a better player and the Steelers a better team.

As far as those stats go....If there was a stat captured for these specific sacks, then obviously I could get it. Obviously, there isn't one so .... it's pointless to say "provide me stats". If you don't believe me then that's fine, I could care less to be honest. It's moronic to even ask for something that you and I know damn well it's impossible to show. I just suggest you watch the games very closely. DVR them and re-watch if you have to.

Yes, historically Ben gets sacked way more than what he should because he holds onto the ball to long. Last year was a bit of a exception. Why? Because Arians offense is gone and Haley's offense focused on Ben getting the ball out quicker. That's no secret. I don't know if you watch the games with a lot of die hard non-Steelers fans but I do. I watch just about every game on every Sunday including the Steelers. Talking with some of these die hard 'other fans' is a good perspective to get because you get the non Steelers "homer" perspective. One of those non-Steelers perspectives has been that Ben holds onto the ball to long. You don't need to be a genius to figure that one out. It's been a known fact. Last year was an improvement in that regard.

[grotonsteel]

You just don't get it do you? It's not a 'hate' Ben agenda. It's a 'hate' Tomlin agenda. It's not a hate Wallace or Mendenhall 'agenda'. It's humorous that people thinking your a "hater" because you critique a certain player, coach, etc. We aren't that good of a team and it showed last year. There is a lot to critique. Trust me. You can keep the Steelers blinders on and think "all is good" if you want..

Ben is one of our best players if not THE best. If he's hurt, we have no chance at a SB just like most franchises when they lose their franchise QB. With that being said, Ben doesn't do himself many favors on several fronts and I critique him on those fronts because I wish he'd improve them because it would make himself a better player and the Steelers a better team.

As far as those stats go....If there was a stat captured for these specific sacks, then obviously I could get it. Obviously, there isn't one so .... it's pointless to say "provide me stats". If you don't believe me then that's fine, I could care less to be honest. It's moronic to even ask for something that you and I know damn well it's impossible to show. I just suggest you watch the games very closely. DVR them and re-watch if you have to.

Yes, historically Ben gets sacked way more than what he should because he holds onto the ball to long. Last year was a bit of a exception. Why? Because Arians offense is gone and Haley's offense focused on Ben getting the ball out quicker. That's no secret. I don't know if you watch the games with a lot of die hard non-Steelers fans but I do. I watch just about every game on every Sunday including the Steelers. Talking with some of these die hard 'other fans' is a good perspective to get because you get the non Steelers "homer" perspective. One of those non-Steelers perspectives has been that Ben holds onto the ball to long. You don't need to be a genius to figure that one out. It's been a known fact. Last year was an improvement in that regard.

First of all i don't need to build an opinion based on any damn non Steelers fan...every fan is nothing but an armchair QB and all they see with there beer googles is QB on TV frame during the game. They don't see the entire field. They don't know anything about where the play broke. They might not watch Steelers 16 times in a season at all.

The reason i asked stat was all you are saying is based on perception and not facts. Does Ben takes sack on 2nd down?? Absolutely.Does Ben gets sacked when in FG range?? Absolutely.. Does he do that in all the games??? Hell No. You see Ben doing that in one or two games and you think its the norm. Every QB makes bone-headed or WTF plays. As long as there frequency is low who cares. You can't eliminate those plays. As long as they are kept in check i don't see any issues.

I maybe in minority but i think Steelers team was good last season. If they could have made one or two plays more they would have made play-offs. 8-8 is not a bad season. I guess i am a blind homer Steelers fan..

[supersteeler]

I maybe in minority but i think Steelers team was good last season. If they could have made one or two plays more they would have made play-offs. 8-8 is not a bad season. I guess i am a blind homer Steelers fan..[/QUOTE]

Bill Cowher always said, " there is a fine line between winning and losing" we just were on the other side of that line in 2012. The two years prior we finished 12-4 where we made those few plays in a game which made a difference then and the 8-8 record now.
Your right in saying we were a good team last season, but beside the injuries they underperformed as well which made a good team average.
Special teams hurt us, the miscues by Antonio Brown, limited QB pressure, sub par secondary play earlier in the season, and yes even Ben played a part in those losses injury or not. The only players I seen play playoff type football were Timmons, Clark, and Miller all year, the secondary came on later and was good at the end but too late.

As for the 8-8 record, thats where we disagree, its unacceptable for a team with this talent to finish like that, yeah we had injuries but the mistakes costs us games too. In Steelers land anything less than making the playoffs is not acceptable to the fans especially when the team has talented players. I could see if this was the steelers in the 80's but not now, we should be better than an 8-8 football team.

[steelz09]

I maybe in minority but i think Steelers team was good last season. If they could have made one or two plays more they would have made play-offs. 8-8 is not a bad season. I guess i am a blind homer Steelers fan..

Bill Cowher always said, " there is a fine line between winning and losing" we just were on the other side of that line in 2012. The two years prior we finished 12-4 where we made those few plays in a game which made a difference then and the 8-8 record now.
Your right in saying we were a good team last season, but beside the injuries they underperformed as well which made a good team average.
Special teams hurt us, the miscues by Antonio Brown, limited QB pressure, sub par secondary play earlier in the season, and yes even Ben played a part in those losses injury or not. The only players I seen play playoff type football were Timmons, Clark, and Miller all year, the secondary came on later and was good at the end but too late.

As for the 8-8 record, thats where we disagree, its unacceptable for a team with this talent to finish like that, yeah we had injuries but the mistakes costs us games too. In Steelers land anything less than making the playoffs is not acceptable to the fans especially when the team has talented players. I could see if this was the steelers in the 80's but not now, we should be better than an 8-8 football team.

Who said, we are as good as what our record indicates (or something like that). It might be another Tomlinism. 8-8 is not good for a team that had the talent we had. It's not like this team doesn't have good players. They have a lot of talent (some older) but still.... This team didn't play good enough over the course of the season. The entire season always seemed like 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

In the beginning our defense was to blame... then the offense started to struggle, injuries.... then the fumbles and lack of discipline...then the coaching.

I'm not sure at any point in the season, the team was firing on all cylinders. And by that, I mean just 1 complete solid game with limited or no turnovers, minimal penalties, solid coaching, etc and both offense and defense clicking at the same time.

If this team had garbage players and little to no talent it's different and 8-8 would be acceptable. Lack of talent is NOT this teams problem. Injuries is not a good enough excuse for the most part (except Ben's injury). The Ravens had a TON of injuries throughout the entire year and they held it together.

[Slapstick]

Injuries is not a good enough excuse for the most part (except Ben's injury). The Ravens had a TON of injuries and they held it together.

And therein lies the key...it isn't injuries as much as key injuries...

The last two seasons, Ben has been injured and it has crippled the Steelers' season...

Joe Flacco, on the other hand, wasn't injured at all...

[supersteeler]

Who said, we are as good as what our record indicates (or something like that). It might be another Tomlinism. 8-8 is not good for a team that had the talent we had. It's not like this team doesn't have good players. They have a lot of talent (some older) but still.... This team didn't play good enough over the course of the season. The entire season always seemed like 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

In the beginning our defense was to blame... then the offense started to struggle, injuries.... then the fumbles and lack of discipline...then the coaching.

I'm not sure at any point in the season, the team was firing on all cylinders. And by that, I mean just 1 complete solid game with limited or no turnovers, minimal penalties, solid coaching, etc and both offense and defense clicking at the same time.

If this team had garbage players and little to no talent it's different and 8-8 would be acceptable. Lack of talent is NOT this teams problem. Injuries is not a good enough excuse for the most part (except Ben's injury). The Ravens had a TON of injuries throughout the entire year and they held it together.

Thats basically what I said in my post......As for the 8-8 record, thats where we disagree, its unacceptable for a team with this talent to finish like that.

[lloydroid]

Who said, we are as good as what our record indicates (or something like that). It might be another Tomlinism. 8-8 is not good for a team that had the talent we had. It's not like this team doesn't have good players. They have a lot of talent (some older) but still.... This team didn't play good enough over the course of the season. The entire season always seemed like 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

In the beginning our defense was to blame... then the offense started to struggle, injuries.... then the fumbles and lack of discipline...then the coaching.

I'm not sure at any point in the season, the team was firing on all cylinders. And by that, I mean just 1 complete solid game with limited or no turnovers, minimal penalties, solid coaching, etc and both offense and defense clicking at the same time.

If this team had garbage players and little to no talent it's different and 8-8 would be acceptable. Lack of talent is NOT this teams problem. Injuries is not a good enough excuse for the most part (except Ben's injury). The Ravens had a TON of injuries throughout the entire year and they held it together.

It was Tuna who said, "We are what our record says we are." (I love Tuna; one of the very best coaches in the history of the NFL.) I think it's kind of lame to just blame injuries. This team lost to the likes of SD, TN, CLE, and Oak. And, we could have easily lost to Philly, Jets and KC - 3 teams we should have beat by 21. It is obvious that there was much more wrong with this team than just injuries. You mentioned how the Ravens had a ton of key injuries and so did GB the year they beat us in the SB - I think they had a record for most starters on IR or something.

The obvious factor was a lack of leadership and poor team chemistry. You don't win sh-t without leadership and a team mentality across the board. Ben and Tomlin were FAIL on that end. Ben really can't be the leader as he acts like a frat boy goofing around as frat boys do (drinking, womanizing, etc.). It's hard to "follow" someone who acts like he is playing in a college intramural game with a keg on the side line. And Tomlin....I think he got to be too much of buddies with everyone and didn't bare down (benching Mendenhall, making Wallace a "dual starter") until it was too little too late. It wasn't until Art 2 stepped in that we actually won a ring in 2005. With old man Dan, he was just too nicey nice to command the discipline to get it done. My sense is it will be Art 2 again, who has to crack some knuckles and get this team serious again. It will start with Art 2 having a quite serious discussion with Tomlin, which I am sure has already happened. Art will also have to step in to run the draft, as they have been really crapping the old bed on that front and it must end.

[NorthCoast]

It was Tuna who said, "We are what our record says we are." (I love Tuna; one of the very best coaches in the history of the NFL.) I think it's kind of lame to just blame injuries. This team lost to the likes of SD, TN, CLE, and Oak. And, we could have easily lost to Philly, Jets and KC - 3 teams we should have beat by 21. It is obvious that there was much more wrong with this team than just injuries. You mentioned how the Ravens had a ton of key injuries and so did GB the year they beat us in the SB - I think they had a record for most starters on IR or something.

The obvious factor was a lack of leadership and poor team chemistry. You don't win sh-t without leadership and a team mentality across the board. Ben and Tomlin were FAIL on that end. Ben really can't be the leader as he acts like a frat boy goofing around as frat boys do (drinking, womanizing, etc.). It's hard to "follow" someone who acts like he is playing in a college intramural game with a keg on the side line. And Tomlin....I think he got to be too much of buddies with everyone and didn't bare down (benching Mendenhall, making Wallace a "dual starter") until it was too little too late. It wasn't until Art 2 stepped in that we actually won a ring in 2005. With old man Dan, he was just too nicey nice to command the discipline to get it done. My sense is it will be Art 2 again, who has to crack some knuckles and get this team serious again. It will start with Art 2 having a quite serious discussion with Tomlin, which I am sure has already happened. Art will also have to step in to run the draft, as they have been really crapping the old bed on that front and it must end.

There are injuries, and then there are injuries. Injuries to key multiple players at the same time is what felled the Steelers. You can only hide so many before the other team attacks the weakest links. Having Ike, Troy, Harrison, Ben, AB, Colon, Gilbert, Miller, missing multiple games is huge to overcome.

[steelz09]

First of all i don't need to build an opinion based on any damn non Steelers fan...every fan is nothing but an armchair QB and all they see with there beer googles is QB on TV frame during the game. They don't see the entire field. They don't know anything about where the play broke. They might not watch Steelers 16 times in a season at all.

The reason i asked stat was all you are saying is based on perception and not facts. Does Ben takes sack on 2nd down?? Absolutely.Does Ben gets sacked when in FG range?? Absolutely.. Does he do that in all the games??? Hell No. You see Ben doing that in one or two games and you think its the norm. Every QB makes bone-headed or WTF plays. As long as there frequency is low who cares. You can't eliminate those plays. As long as they are kept in check i don't see any issues.

I maybe in minority but i think Steelers team was good last season. If they could have made one or two plays more they would have made play-offs. 8-8 is not a bad season. I guess i am a blind homer Steelers fan..

It's called perspective. A different perspective. Companies, etc bring in people outside of the internal organization for different perspectives all the time for honest analysis instead "homerism" (as steelers fans would call it)