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Thread: Is this start on offense historically bad?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Sure. But the run game (currently #32) is going to have to skyrocket in the next few weeks if they are going to have a chance cause that's what carried Roethlisberger.
    The league isn't the same today................... Clear your mind from the past.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eich View Post
    How many did we gain in the 1st?

    There's only one team worse than us in total yards for the season so far. The Bungles. Strange season so far.
    I think we also had negative yards vs. SF until about 5 minutes left in the first half.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Got a question....

    In your opinion, if by week 7 we still have those same putrid offensive numbers, what moves do you anticipate being done to fix things?
    Since we brought in an OC in waiting, I think we don't fire Canada in this case but Thomas takes over play calling duties (at least).

    The same kind of non-firing firing we gave to the last OL coach.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BURGH86STEEL View Post
    If the Steelers are 5-2 or 4-3 by week 7. Keep working to improve. The Steelers won a the SB with Ben having the worst QB rating in the history of a SB winning QB.

    Keep working to improve.

    Fans may not realize this but the NFL is almost at the point of "true parity" (Outside of the QB factor).
    Worth remembering that the QB factor is the most important part of the game though. So this part is no small thing.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by WindyCitySteel View Post
    All good, coach isn't concerned.

    "I don?t share their concern because of my perspective. I?m a part of the process, when you?re apart of the process, it?s less troublesome to you," Tomlin said.
    FWIW, I think people get way too worked up about public facing comments.

    It's also worth noting that he said that he thought that the offensive coaching was below the line and not reading for the 5 man fronts.

    That's a big departure from last year when he was fully supportive of Canada in public.

  6. #26
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    Some more fuel on the fire (this stuff starts somewhere around 8 minutes):

    • Apparently the OL is rated worst in the league by PFF. Also dead last in "run block win rate" by ESPN.
    • Pickett "completion rate below expectation", which the guy on here describes as "completion rate from a clean pocket (so no using the OL as an excuse for KP here)" is worst in the league at 12% below expectation.
    • Last in the league catchable throws from a clean pocket at 63%. I would love to have access to this data. Because I bet he looks even worse if we only look at on target passes. Because he seems to be throwing a ton of balls that are "catchable" but make the WR work really hard for it.
    • Second last in this category is Zach Wilson. Wilson is also terrible, but he's 11% better than Pickett in catchable balls from clean pockets.
    • KP is 19% below expectation for completions over the middle of the field. Didn't give the ranking, but I'd imagine that's probably last or close to it as well. He was among the best in this ranking last year at +8.3% above expectation.
    • Also, the RBs are getting hammered with some of the earliest first contacts in the league.


    I think all of this means (1) yes, the OL sucks so far, (2) yes, the OC sucks so far (no data for that here, but I think it's kind of a given), and (3) yes, the QB also sucks. None of this is surprising IMO because you don't get an offense this inept without lots of people playing very poorly.

    My guess is that all of this means that DCs did what Ben says they do when they have tape on young QBs. Kenny's job is to adapt now. Looks extremely bad in the first two games...but there are 15 games left in the season.
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 09-21-2023 at 07:12 AM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    [video=youtube;sYziBH8LKk8]
    My guess is that all of this means that DCs did what Ben says they do when they have tape on young QBs. Kenny's job is to adapt now. Looks extremely bad in the first two games...but there are 15 games left in the season.
    True, but they have tape on the whole offense, and it's a a 60-second reel. Every D knows every play by formation. If Kenny cleans up the innaccuracy issues I don't think it makes a huge difference in offensive production.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BURGH86STEEL View Post
    The Raiders have NFL caliber defensive players that can "wreck" a game plan. The Steelers also have ways to limit those players. The Raiders have offensive players that can "wreck" a game plan.

    Ultimately, it boils down to player "execution on game day". Game day. Game day. Game day.
    Every player in the league has a weakness. It's up to coaching and gameplanning to maximize or minimize them. E.g. deciding to repeatedly attack SF's middle linebacker with crossing routes (an all pro in coverage) rather than their corners doesn't seem like an optimum plan.
    If talent in the NFL is 100% parity, then don't you think coaching becomes a bigger part of success or failure? If a coach puts a LB in man coverage on the fastest WR in the game is that more a fail on the LB or the coach?

    (just so it's clear, I'm not saying coaching is more important that players. but as you say, in a league with equal talent it becomes a bigger part. that's difference between college and the pros)
    Last edited by NorthCoast; 09-21-2023 at 07:24 AM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Every player in the league has a weakness. It's up to coaching and gameplanning to maximize or minimize them. E.g. deciding to repeatedly attack SF's middle linebacker with crossing routes (an all pro in coverage) rather than their corners doesn't seem like an optimum plan.
    If talent in the NFL is 100% parity, then don't you think coaching becomes a bigger part of success or failure? If a coach puts a LB in man coverage on the fastest WR in the game is that more a fail on the LB or the coach?

    (just so it's clear, I'm not saying coaching is more important that players. but as you say, in a league with equal talent it becomes a bigger part. that's difference between college and the pros)
    I'm reminded of the AFCC blowout loss to NE a few years ago, after which Mike Mitchell (I think) said that they didn't see the flea-flicker all week during film review. The Pats had actually run it a few weeks earlier, but the Steelers traditionally watch on 4 games worth of film per opponent.

    When asked how he prepared for the Steelers, Belichick said he watched every single play they ran all season.

    Coaching matters.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post


    Some more fuel on the fire (this stuff starts somewhere around 8 minutes):

    • Apparently the OL is rated worst in the league by PFF. Also dead last in "run block win rate" by ESPN.
    • Pickett "completion rate below expectation", which the guy on here describes as "completion rate from a clean pocket (so no using the OL as an excuse for KP here)" is worst in the league at 12% below expectation.
    • Last in the league catchable throws from a clean pocket at 63%. I would love to have access to this data. Because I bet he looks even worse if we only look at on target passes. Because he seems to be throwing a ton of balls that are "catchable" but make the WR work really hard for it.
    • Second last in this category is Zach Wilson. Wilson is also terrible, but he's 11% better than Pickett in catchable balls from clean pockets.
    • KP is 19% below expectation for completions over the middle of the field. Didn't give the ranking, but I'd imagine that's probably last or close to it as well. He was among the best in this ranking last year at +8.3% above expectation.
    • Also, the RBs are getting hammered with some of the earliest first contacts in the league.


    I think all of this means (1) yes, the OL sucks so far, (2) yes, the OC sucks so far (no data for that here, but I think it's kind of a given), and (3) yes, the QB also sucks. None of this is surprising IMO because you don't get an offense this inept without lots of people playing very poorly.

    My guess is that all of this means that DCs did what Ben says they do when they have tape on young QBs. Kenny's job is to adapt now. Looks extremely bad in the first two games...but there are 15 games left in the season.
    In another post I posted a writeup from last season on Pickett's accuracy problems. It really showed up the last two games of last season and has just continued from there. The disturbing part is that it doesn't look noticeably improved over last season. An offense can't look consistent if the QB can't play consistently. It's really that simple.

    btw, on target catches include balls that may or may not have been caught by the receiver, catchables are rated based on proximity to the receiver. For most QBs, the difference is usually no more than 5 to 10% (catchable the higher %).

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