What's Najee's #s gonna be with new rushing game?

[Northern_Blitz]

Right. I been reading that Warren has looked even bigger and more explosive. We are lucky to have him, and don't be shocked if he takes Harris job. He has the accleration and speed combined with good vision to break those long runs.

He won't take Harris' job unless he gets injured.

I like Warren. But Najee is the better back.

[WindyCitySteel]

Yes they are, Chubb has been good but he isn't on some kind of unattainable level.

Unattainable for Najee, he'll never have that breakaway speed. Chubb has never averaged less than 5 YPC in a single season. I'd be surprised if Najee pulled it off once, mostly because of his style and also because of the way they use him.

[WindyCitySteel]

Right. I been reading that Warren has looked even bigger and more explosive. We are lucky to have him, and don't be shocked if he takes Harris job. He has the accleration and speed combined with good vision to break those long runs.

Chubb has been very good and only gets 16 carries per game, you need two backs. Harris and Warren are a good combination.

[Mr.wizard]

Unattainable for Najee, he'll never have that breakaway speed. Chubb has never averaged less than 5 YPC in a single season. I'd be surprised if Najee pulled it off once, mostly because of his style and also because of the way they use him.

The YPC is a red herring, whether he averages 5 yds per carry is irrelevant. If you look at the other Cleveland backs and how they are used, it gives you an idea how the situational usage effects the YPC. D'ernest Johnson averages over 5 YPC but Hunt averages around 4.2. Hunt is obviously the better back but Hunt gets used in short yardage situations.

[feltdizz]

Right. I been reading that Warren has looked even bigger and more explosive. We are lucky to have him, and don't be shocked if he takes Harris job. He has the accleration and speed combined with good vision to break those long runs.

yeah.. Warren is going to replace Najee. Just like we were going to get new QB’s. Your wish list of replacing players isn’t going to happen.

Warren is going to split carries and should get more opportunities to spell Najee but he isn’t going to replace him unless there is an injury.

[feltdizz]

Bell was also a good all around back who didn't get many long runs and got a lot of volume.

That's why they get compared a lot.

Not because of their style.

They are compared because they play for the same team. Totally different running styles.

There is a nice video of Bell’s top 100 players in 2017 and the way NFL players talk about him pretty much tells the difference in their games. I also think if we used a 3rd down back more often Bell’s ypc would’ve been higher. People don’t see to understand situational football. Bell had a lot of short yardage runs and rarely came off the field. Same with Najee his rookie year.

Najee is going to have a good year if he enters the season healthy and the OL keeps improving but he has a long way to go to get to level Bell was at in 2017.

[Oviedo]

They are compared because they play for the same team. Totally different running styles.

There is a nice video of Bell?s top 100 players in 2017 and the way NFL players talk about him pretty much tells the difference in their games. I also think if we used a 3rd down back more often Bell?s ypc would?ve been higher. People don?t see to understand situational football. Bell had a lot of short yardage runs and rarely came off the field. Same with Najee his rookie year.

Najee is going to have a good year if he enters the season healthy and the OL keeps improving but he has a long way to go to get to level Bell was at in 2017.

I think Najee with have 1400 yards and 10 TDs this season. The emphasis on improving the OL will pay off in the red zone

[Captain Lemming]

I'm not saying he is at Chubbs level, what I am saying is that he isn't that far off, yes he hasn't been as efficient as Chubb but behind a good O-line and fully healthy I think he could be right there.

I like Najee a lot. He can be a very good productive back for us. Chubb is a bad comparison.
Does Chubb have a better line? Sure.

But Chubb is MUCH faster than Najee. To imply the disparity is YPC is just because of situational factors is kinda silly.

That does not mean Najee can't be a very good and effective back for us.

[Northern_Blitz]

They are compared because they play for the same team. Totally different running styles.

There is a nice video of Bell’s top 100 players in 2017 and the way NFL players talk about him pretty much tells the difference in their games. I also think if we used a 3rd down back more often Bell’s ypc would’ve been higher. People don’t see to understand situational football. Bell had a lot of short yardage runs and rarely came off the field. Same with Najee his rookie year.

Najee is going to have a good year if he enters the season healthy and the OL keeps improving but he has a long way to go to get to level Bell was at in 2017.

No one is comparing their running style.

I agree that it's unlikely that Najee will ever equal Bell's best years. I think NH is above average, but not by all that much (hope that changes for the better). Bell was elite. Najee is more of a "poor man's" Bell. Because Bell was better at delivering big plays than Harris is. And while Najee said that he was trying a more patient style, it didn't work for him. Because he's not Bell. Not sure anyone will have success in the NFL using that style. Hard to have the combination of vision and elite acceleration I think.

Also, I agree with the idea that it's possible that not having a 3rd down back could lower a player's YPC.

But the thing about Harris is that we have data to test the hypothesis.

We didn't have a 3rd down back in his rookie year. But we did in his second year. His YPC was basically the same (slightly down). The excuse here is that he was hurt. And he was. And it's likely he will almost always be nursing injuries. Because he's an NFL RB who gets a big work load.

We'll run the same experiment again this year if everyone stays healthy (enough to play). Expecting Harris to get to a YPC like Chubb's (which is what Wizard seems to think is possible) is silly IMO.

Without looking at stats, I think it's unlikely for any player to increase their YPC by ~ 1.5 after they've had enough carries in the league to see who they really are (and I think Harris has almost 600 carries). This is especially true for a guy like Harris who very rarely gets runs of 20 yards, and probably doesn't have a run over 30 yards in almost 600 carries.

You get high YPC by ripping huge runs. Harris isn't that kind of back.

But, I think the combination of better line and motivation from seeing Warren hit holes hard (Najee's words) led to higher success rates last year. That's his ticket to contributing to the league. It's too bad he doesn't also have the ability to get explosive plays, because it's really hard to sustain long drives in the NFL. Hopefully KP becomes better at getting big plays through the passing game. Because I think it's hard to win in today's NFL without many explosive plays.

[Northern_Blitz]

I like Najee a lot. He can be a very good productive back for us. Chubb is a bad comparison.
Does Chubb have a better line? Sure.

But Chubb is MUCH faster than Najee. To imply the disparity is YPC is just because of situational factors is kinda silly.

That does not mean Najee can't be a very good and effective back for us.

Lemming is better at getting to the point than I am.

But I've been reluctant to straight up say that Najee is slow. Because then people will start talking about some 40 time that was taken at some unknown time and place. Timed using some unknown method.

[Captain Lemming]

They are compared because they play for the same team. Totally different running styles.

There is a nice video of Bell’s top 100 players in 2017 and the way NFL players talk about him pretty much tells the difference in their games. I also think if we used a 3rd down back more often Bell’s ypc would’ve been higher. People don’t see to understand situational football. Bell had a lot of short yardage runs and rarely came off the field. Same with Najee his rookie year.

Najee is going to have a good year if he enters the season healthy and the OL keeps improving but he has a long way to go to get to level Bell was at in 2017.

You realize that NB just said the comp has nothing to do whatsoever with running style right? He is correct in saying they both are all around backs (excellent receivers) who don't make many long runs.

Very different styles. Bell was more elusive and used his blockers WAY better while Najee is more powerful.

[whisper]

No one is comparing their running style.

I agree that it's unlikely that Najee will ever equal Bell's best years. I think NH is above average, but not by all that much (hope that changes for the better). Bell was elite. Najee is more of a "poor man's" Bell. Because Bell was better at delivering big plays than Harris is. And while Najee said that he was trying a more patient style, it didn't work for him. Because he's not Bell. Not sure anyone will have success in the NFL using that style. Hard to have the combination of vision and elite acceleration I think.

Also, I agree with the idea that it's possible that not having a 3rd down back could lower a player's YPC.

But the thing about Harris is that we have data to test the hypothesis.

We didn't have a 3rd down back in his rookie year. But we did in his second year. His YPC was basically the same (slightly down). The excuse here is that he was hurt. And he was. And it's likely he will almost always be nursing injuries. Because he's an NFL RB who gets a big work load.

We'll run the same experiment again this year if everyone stays healthy (enough to play). Expecting Harris to get to a YPC like Chubb's (which is what Wizard seems to think is possible) is silly IMO.

Without looking at stats, I think it's unlikely for any player to increase their YPC by ~ 1.5 after they've had enough carries in the league to see who they really are (and I think Harris has almost 600 carries). This is especially true for a guy like Harris who very rarely gets runs of 20 yards, and probably doesn't have a run over 30 yards in almost 600 carries.

You get high YPC by ripping huge runs. Harris isn't that kind of back.

But, I think the combination of better line and motivation from seeing Warren hit holes hard (Najee's words) led to higher success rates last year. That's his ticket to contributing to the league. It's too bad he doesn't also have the ability to get explosive plays, because it's really hard to sustain long drives in the NFL. Hopefully KP becomes better at getting big plays through the passing game. Because I think it's hard to win in today's NFL without many explosive plays.

MY name is whisper, and I approve this message.

[whisper]

Lemming is better at getting to the point than I am.

But I've been reluctant to straight up say that Najee is slow. Because then people will start talking about some 40 time that was taken at some unknown time and place. Timed using some unknown method.

I haven't seen any such 40 time; it's a closely kept secret when he ran one. But I can tell you - sans having one - that his is slow. How can one not just use common sense and see that? 4.8 is what I'm thinking. No wonder they don't have a public one. Would you?

[Mr.wizard]

I like Najee a lot. He can be a very good productive back for us. Chubb is a bad comparison.
Does Chubb have a better line? Sure.

But Chubb is MUCH faster than Najee. To imply the disparity is YPC is just because of situational factors is kinda silly.

That does not mean Najee can't be a very good and effective back for us.

Chubb is not much faster than Najee I'm not sure where that narrative is coming from, yes YPC is affected by situational factors. Najee is used more that Chubb rushing and in the passing game, also Chubb isn't used in short yardage. These are going to impact ypc much more than Chubb maybe being a little faster.

[Captain Lemming]

I think Najee with have 1400 yards and 10 TDs this season. The emphasis on improving the OL will pay off in the red zone

You know you say this in a vacuum right? This only happens if Warren has WAY less carries. I'm not promoting Warren as starter, but to use Warren LESS is dumb.