Finally changing course on NT

[whisper]

You are right. Having a two down run stopper in a conference dominanted by passers isn't the recipe to success. You need balance and a guy who can collapse the pocket. This isn't the early 2000s NFL. Casey Hampton would not be effective today as much as he was 20 years ago

You either weren't around in the Casey era or don't have a great memory: Casey picked and chose his spots, he could reach the QB when it mattered most. He might not have sacked him, but he was a disrupter.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

But having a legit NT is the 1st step in a 3-4 D to getting more stops. Don't know what took this team so long to get that. They've been in denial for a long time. Since Hampton, really. Cool Shades has been anti dominant NT.

I'm agreeing with you here... I've wished for years for a real NT because NT is what makes it work for the ILB, even the ones who don't like contact. You need a guy who requires 2 blockers - who if you don't, he'll gobble up any run between the tackles - simply put, consuming another blocker leaves another defender free.

I think Mazi Smith and Keeanu Benton are BOTH capable of being that guy and are athletic enough to give a little pass rush. Those guys are the closest thing to Hargrave in this draft...

[SteelerOfDeVille]

You are right. Having a two down run stopper in a conference dominanted by passers isn't the recipe to success. You need balance and a guy who can collapse the pocket. This isn't the early 2000s NFL. Casey Hampton would not be effective today as much as he was 20 years ago

You guys have to stop looking at sub-package players as if it's a problem.
The team plays base, nickel, dime and some other stuff... And there's a whole lotta players that come in and out... Some of these teams have 3 or 4 run stuffing tackles that they rotate in.

It's not like anyone is asking for Siaka, who is closer to Casey, IMO. Smith (and keenu benton) are closer to Javon Hargrave types....

[Buzz]

You are right. Having a two down run stopper in a conference dominanted by passers isn't the recipe to success. You need balance and a guy who can collapse the pocket. This isn't the early 2000s NFL. Casey Hampton would not be effective today as much as he was 20 years ago

Need more of a Javon Hargrave type, IMO
I would take Mazi or Benton

[Steel Maniac]

Need more of a Javon Hargrave type, IMO
I would take Mazi or Benton

Wish Javon was still here. Hate when one of ours leaves and he hits big time at the next stop. Like we prepared him for someone else.

[hawaiiansteel]

That would be the plan. Any extra pick would be nice, an extra 3rd would really fill the bill. Some teams are gonna be jonesing for that 32nd, they will have all Thursday night, Friday morning to think about who they would love to grab. Hopefully, we have our eyes on a guy who will be there a few picks later.

exactly...

[feltdizz]

You either weren't around in the Casey era or don't have a great memory: Casey picked and chose his spots, he could reach the QB when it mattered most. He might not have sacked him, but he was a disrupter.

exactly.. IMo sacks are way overrated. Nice to have but pushing that Center back so the QB can’t step up was part of Casey’s game.

AND

while Hargrave was good at penetration there were times when he lost containment and it led to huge gains up the middle.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

exactly.. IMo sacks are way overrated. Nice to have but pushing that Center back so the QB can’t step up was part of Casey’s game.

AND

while Hargrave was good at penetration there were times when he lost containment and it led to huge gains up the middle.

ESPECIALLY sacks from the NT position... I'd rather have a guy who does job 1 the best, than a guy who throws in some extra at a position that isn't his.

"My RB is the best passer in the league.." OK... so you can do 5 halfback passes a year? Good for him... But, can he RUN the ball?

[Joel Buchsbaum]

https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/20...ost_position=0

It took long enough but it looks as though the Steelers are finally putting a priority on a beefy NT. Not only from Tomlin's visit with this fellow from UM, but also with time spent with this other space-eater, Clark from Coastal Carolina. Finally, it looks like they figured out they need beef on the DL.

https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2023/03/17/steelers-mike-tomlin-jerrod-clark-2023-nfl-draft/

Better late than never. I read even Heyward was pushing for the move.

https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/20...ard-nfl-draft/

It took Tomlin long enough to recognize the need.

Heyward has become more visible with the media lately. I like that he is voicing his opinion and showing leadership. He not one of those types that just keep his yap shut and plays.

[Northern_Blitz]

ESPECIALLY sacks from the NT position... I'd rather have a guy who does job 1 the best, than a guy who throws in some extra at a position that isn't his.

"My RB is the best passer in the league.." OK... so you can do 5 halfback passes a year? Good for him... But, can he RUN the ball?

I've heard the argument that the NCAA doesn't do all that good a job producing big space eating NTs.

But I don't watch college ball.

Does anyone know if that's true?

It seems to me that a big two down player who doesn't get sacks shouldn't be expensive (either draft capital or UFA dollars). But there doesn't seem to be a big supply of them either (which probably drives the price up in either currency).

[SteelerOfDeVille]

I've heard the argument that the NCAA doesn't do all that good a job producing big space eating NTs.

But I don't watch college ball.

Does anyone know if that's true?

It seems to me that a big two down player who doesn't get sacks shouldn't be expensive (either draft capital or UFA dollars). But there doesn't seem to be a big supply of them either (which probably drives the price up in either currency).

Just like in the NFL, 3 man fronts aren't that common, so there's that. The other consideration is they're so young and if you're 300 coming out of high school, it's probably fat and not as much muscle.

[Northern_Blitz]

Just like in the NFL, 3 man fronts aren't that common, so there's that. The other consideration is they're so young and if you're 300 coming out of high school, it's probably fat and not as much muscle.

Gotta get to the league and take your "vitamins".

[SteelerOfDeVille]

Gotta get to the league and take your "vitamins".

[whisper]

I've heard the argument that the NCAA doesn't do all that good a job producing big space eating NTs.

But I don't watch college ball.

Does anyone know if that's true?

It seems to me that a big two down player who doesn't get sacks shouldn't be expensive (either draft capital or UFA dollars). But there doesn't seem to be a big supply of them either (which probably drives the price up in either currency).

We are getting back to the time when 3-4's were not common, thus the players needed to run it were:

1.) Less common, not seen as much in college.
2.) Less common, but more plentiful if you needed them.

The positions it impacts are:

1.) DE. Not so much as sack producers, but guys who can stand up to the rush. 3-4 linemen are a different hybrid, let them hold up vs. the rush and allow the OLBs to get the sacks. Think of Aaron Smith, Keisel, Heyward (although he also has sacks). It used to be guys of this nature could be found later in the draft.
2.) NTs. These guys are pure space eaters. Cool Shades has slowly tried to phase these guys out, but it hasn't worked. You need these immovable forces in there to stop the rush in a 3-4. Tomlin has tried to change that, it hasn't worked. Hampton and Steed are needed bodies in there. A 4-3 doesn't quite need these same bodies. A 3-4 does.
3.) OLBs. Since OLBs in a 3-4 is mostly how you get QB pressure, they are KEY in a 3-4's effectiveness. Again, back in the day, we used to be ble to take under-sized DEs from college and turn them into OLBs. But then, you could find them later in the draft, the Greg Lloyds, Joey Porters, Mike Merriweathers, Lamarr Woodleys, James Harrisons.

We may be somewhat returning to the day where these positions can be found easier than 4-3 defenders, if only Cool Shades let's it happen.

[hawaiiansteel]

Mike Tomllin met with Mazi Smith twice during Michigan's pro day week. - Tony Pauline, Pro Football Network

The Steelers really need some defensive line help, so perhaps they'll be targeting Smith atop the second round.

https://walterfootball.com/nflrumors