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Thread: Who's responsible for this defense?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.wizard View Post
    Why don't we get 5 new "Who's responsible" threads when we win?
    We do....maybe even more.

    They are just about smaller nit-picking stuff that people try to blame on Tomlin.

    It's maybe more important to make sure Tomlin gets no credit for wins that blaming him for losses.

    It's easy to see why he's at fault in the losses. But it takes a real shrewd intellect to pick him apart in the wins. Like Windy's "My biggest concern with Kenny" post last week. Which was really "The reason I think Tomlin is ruining Kenny", nothing about Kenny at all. Just a way to deflect all blame from the QB onto the coach instead of realizing that they share the blame.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
    I've never fully understood that excuse anyway. If your D is on the field for say 7 minutes, wouldn't logic dictate that the opposing offense is also on the field for the same 7 minutes? And the offense typically doesn't substitute anyone.

    I mean, I get that it's more exhausting to chase people, tackle, etc. But overall it shouldn't be that big of a deal
    When the D is on the field for a 7 minute drive, gets off and the O goes 3 and out, and then gets back on, that has to be rough. That was not the case last week, although the O tried to gas the D in the second half.

    Second half:

    Steelers 3 and out 1:21
    Bengals 4 and out 1:32
    Steelers 3 and out 1:37
    Bengals 7 play TD 3:05
    Steelers 3 and out 1:24
    Bengals 1 play int.
    Steelers 4 plays FG :51
    Bengals 9 plays FG 3:52
    Steelers 6 plays and punt 2:53 (punt pins them at 10 yard line)
    Bengals 3 and out :50
    Steelers 6 play disaster drive starting with ball in Bengals territory 1:55 (punt pins them at the 7)
    Bengals 8 play TD drive 5:03
    Steelers 4 and out :48
    Bengals 4 and out :13
    Steelers 9 play TD (garbage time) 2:33

    Looking at this, prior to garbage time TD, Steelers had the ball 7 times in the second half and averaged just over 4 plays a drive. Harvin punted mostly well. D held their ground several times and gave the O the ball back in good shape. Obviously we'd like to see the D always hold, but looking at this, they received about the same amount of help as Zach Wilson gave the Jets D.

  3. #23
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    Steelers Takeaways
    @PittsburghSport

    I see a lot of the #Steelers defensive woes being placed on it "being on the field too long this season".

    Yet, the offense is 13th best in NFL in TOP. The defense in 23rd in NFL on 3rd down % & 28th in Yards per play.

    Offense is a problem but the defense has its own issues.

    Nov 21, 2022

    https://twitter.com/PittsburghSport/...Austin%2Fpage2

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteel View Post
    Steelers Takeaways
    @PittsburghSport

    I see a lot of the #Steelers defensive woes being placed on it "being on the field too long this season".

    Yet, the offense is 13th best in NFL in TOP. The defense in 23rd in NFL on 3rd down % & 28th in Yards per play.

    Offense is a problem but the defense has its own issues.

    Nov 21, 2022

    https://twitter.com/PittsburghSport/...Austin%2Fpage2

    the dreaded 3rd and whatever strikes again.

    Iím generally shocked when we stop teams on 3rd and 7 or longer.

    but this is also why I worried about the Watt contract. Dude is a beast but we are lacking in so many other areas. 3 guys on defense are making almost half of the defenses total salary.
    Last edited by feltdizz; 11-22-2022 at 03:19 PM.
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by steeler_fan_in_t.o. View Post
    When the D is on the field for a 7 minute drive, gets off and the O goes 3 and out, and then gets back on, that has to be rough. That was not the case last week, although the O tried to gas the D in the second half.

    Second half:

    Steelers 3 and out 1:21
    Bengals 4 and out 1:32
    Steelers 3 and out 1:37
    Bengals 7 play TD 3:05
    Steelers 3 and out 1:24
    Bengals 1 play int.
    Steelers 4 plays FG :51
    Bengals 9 plays FG 3:52
    Steelers 6 plays and punt 2:53 (punt pins them at 10 yard line)
    Bengals 3 and out :50
    Steelers 6 play disaster drive starting with ball in Bengals territory 1:55 (punt pins them at the 7)
    Bengals 8 play TD drive 5:03
    Steelers 4 and out :48
    Bengals 4 and out :13
    Steelers 9 play TD (garbage time) 2:33

    Looking at this, prior to garbage time TD, Steelers had the ball 7 times in the second half and averaged just over 4 plays a drive. Harvin punted mostly well. D held their ground several times and gave the O the ball back in good shape. Obviously we'd like to see the D always hold, but looking at this, they received about the same amount of help as Zach Wilson gave the Jets D.
    And is the opposing offense not coming back on the field too? The same 5 OL, same WRs, TE, RBs, etc?

    How was the Jets D, while being on the field so much, able to hold the NE offense to 3 pts, where we gave up 37?

    I'm not saying there's nothing to it, or that it doesn't suck for the D. I'm saying 'being tired' is an overblown excuse

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    In general, I think the issue with the 3-and-outs is more about giving them more opportunities than it is about guys getting tired.

    If you have successful drives and control the clock, they get fewer drives. Which should lead to fewer points.

    For example, the Saints last week had 10 drives.

    The Bengals this week had 13.

    Or even in the Bengals game.

    In the first half, our offense had one drive of 4 or fewer plays. The Bengals had five drives (scored 17 points).

    In the second half, our offense had 6 drives of 4 or fewer plays. The Bengals had 8 drives (scored 20 pts).

    The defense actually gave up fewer points per drive in the 2nd half (3.4 pp drive in the 1st half and 2.5 pp drive in the 2nd half). But the inept offense meant that the Bengals had 60% more chances to score in the 2nd half than the did in the first half.

    If it was a matter of the defense getting more tired than the offense, then wouldn't we expect that their offense would score more points per drive in the 2nd?

    It's not fitness. It's opportunity.

    And if the offense didn't suck, their offense would get fewer opportunities.
    interesting way of looking at this that I hadnít really thought much about.

    I think there also has to be an emotional aspect to it as well being on the field for so many series and the O going 3 and out must be a little demoralizing.

    Also with the quick 3 and outs maybe thereís not enough of a breather for guys to get back to going all out on the pass rush. I would look at it like hockey players to some degree. Theyíre good for a minute or so until they need to switch lines. Maybe with the 3 and outs by the O itís like defending a never ending power play and just running out of gas before a line change can happen.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    We do....maybe even more.

    They are just about smaller nit-picking stuff that people try to blame on Tomlin.

    It's maybe more important to make sure Tomlin gets no credit for wins that blaming him for losses.

    It's easy to see why he's at fault in the losses. But it takes a real shrewd intellect to pick him apart in the wins. Like Windy's "My biggest concern with Kenny" post last week. Which was really "The reason I think Tomlin is ruining Kenny", nothing about Kenny at all. Just a way to deflect all blame from the QB onto the coach instead of realizing that they share the blame.
    Obtuse Shades is HEAD COACH. He should, but doesn't, bare major responsibility for this team's failures. The last 7 years have basically been FAIL all things considered. He squandered so much talent away until there wasn't much left.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    the dreaded 3rd and whatever strikes again.

    I’m generally shocked when we stop teams on 3rd and 7 or longer.

    but this is also why I worried about the Watt contract. Dude is a beast but we are lacking in so many other areas. 3 guys on defense are making almost half of the defenses total salary.
    When it generally comes to playing offense or defense, units that have experience playing together for longer periods of time, probably have a greater chance of success (QB is the wild card on offense).

    I assume that coaches call plays based on a variety of factors. I don't believe coaches call defensive plays to "always" defend certain players.

    The NFL is simple. Fans make it more complex with blah blah blah schemes. Follow the execution on a given play. It's easy and simple to follow where most break downs happen.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by whisper View Post
    Obtuse Shades is HEAD COACH. He should, but doesn't, bare major responsibility for this team's failures. The last 7 years have basically been FAIL all things considered. He squandered so much talent away until there wasn't much left.
    He bares the large majority of the responsibility for the team's failures. It also depends on how one views failure. If championship wins are your only measure of success than Tomlin and the Steelers failed.

    This, "squandered so much talent away until there wasn't much left" isn't a well thought out stance to have.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    It's easy to see why he's at fault in the losses. But it takes a real shrewd intellect to pick him apart in the wins. Like Windy's "My biggest concern with Kenny" post last week. Which was really "The reason I think Tomlin is ruining Kenny", nothing about Kenny at all. Just a way to deflect all blame from the QB onto the coach instead of realizing that they share the blame.
    I've never said Kenny is blameless, and you might have a point if I were the only one saying they're beating fear of turnovers into him and affecting his play, but many local and even some national analysts are starting to question the same thing.

    There are more people on this board who gave up on Kenny after his first start than there are those who defend him blindly. Far more.
    Last edited by WindyCitySteel; 11-23-2022 at 09:13 AM.

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