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Thread: Is this the genesis of the Steelers offensive woes?

  1. #1
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    Is this the genesis of the Steelers offensive woes?

    I originally posted this in NC's Covid or QB thread, but I think it deserves it's own. These statements from Tomlin in 2018 are quite possibly the genesis of this fundamental philosophical change on offense, which hasn't changed over 3.5 seasons, two coordinators, and five QBs. It's also the reason he's not firing Canada, IMO, because he doesn't think he's done anything wrong in implementing his plan.

    The Steelers were one of the worst TO differential teams in 2018, with few coming on D and Ben leading the league in INT, and Tomlin was very vocal about that costing them the playoffs. The offense has been extremely buttoned up and safe since then. While the best offenses in the league attack and score points, Tomlin believes the key to winning is simply eliminating risk on offense and winning low-scoring games. You simply can't win this way in today's NFL.

    https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...nfl-news-stats


    “We’ve turned the ball over some on offense. We’ve got to do a better job of safeguarding and preserving it in everything that we do. Whether it’s a run, or passing, or running with the football, etc.And on the defense of side of the ball, save the last snap of the game in Jacksonville, we’ve played eight quarters of football without creating a turnover. I think you can’t have one discussion without the other. Turning the ball over is less of an issue if you’re getting it. Not getting turnovers is less of an issue if you’re preserving and taking care of it. So we’ve got issues in both areas and it’s created issues for us globally. We were fortunate to get out of Jacksonville… and obviously we weren’t able to get out of Denver.”

    Tomlin went on to describe what the Steelers (https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/) need to do to flip the turnover margin in their favor.

    So we’ve got work to do in that area. It’s very fundamental. We always work in that area. But it’s a re-centering, if you will- a point of emphasis- and we’ll continue along those lines until we get the desired result. And to be quite honest with you, we better get the desired result very quickly because of the significant challenge we have coming before us.”

  2. #2
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    I don’t see a big fundamental issue with this philosophy if you can execute.

    I think this requires an accurate QB and long term KP can be a fit for this system given his incredible accuracy.

    Improve the guys up front so they can protect him and open up the running game to make everything easier.

    Then as things start to click, passing on 1st down really is the most conservative low risk down to pass.

    After all we’re throwing 30,40,50 times a game. That doesn’t align with the conservative system you are allluding to Tomlin trying to run. I think when we get the passes to 20-25 a game that will be more reflective of a system that Tomlin is trying to conservatively run.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by flippy View Post
    I don’t see a big fundamental issue with this philosophy if you can execute.

    I think this requires an accurate QB and long term KP can be a fit for this system given his incredible accuracy.

    Improve the guys up front so they can protect him and open up the running game to make everything easier.

    Then as things start to click, passing on 1st down really is the most conservative low risk down to pass.

    After all we’re throwing 30,40,50 times a game. That doesn’t align with the conservative system you are allluding to Tomlin trying to run. I think when we get the passes to 20-25 a game that will be more reflective of a system that Tomlin is trying to conservatively run.
    yep.. would love to see 8 to 12 play dirves with 60% runs and 40% passing with a fee of those to the RB’s in the flat or with screens.

    Dropping back 40+ is not the best formula to keep the D rested.
    Tomlin’s coming back so what can you do?


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by flippy View Post
    I don’t see a big fundamental issue with this philosophy if you can execute.

    I think this requires an accurate QB and long term KP can be a fit for this system given his incredible accuracy.

    Improve the guys up front so they can protect him and open up the running game to make everything easier.

    Then as things start to click, passing on 1st down really is the most conservative low risk down to pass.

    After all we’re throwing 30,40,50 times a game. That doesn’t align with the conservative system you are allluding to Tomlin trying to run. I think when we get the passes to 20-25 a game that will be more reflective of a system that Tomlin is trying to conservatively run.
    Chunk plays and turnovers win games in today's NFL. The great offenses all turn the ball over but overcome it with chunk plays. The Steelers still turn the ball over in their safe offense, probably because everything is condensed to certain parts of the field and the D blankets those areas. What the Steelers do NOT do is overcome turnovers with big plays.

    You simply can't rely on 12-15 play drives all game. Remember how it was kind of almost working vs. KC in the playoffs, then KC erupted for 3 quick TDs and the game was over because the toothless Steeler offense couldn't answer.

    You can't win in the playoffs today by hiding your offense.

    Re: the number of passes, they're either horizontal or to the boundary - incredibly conservative.
    Last edited by WindyCitySteel; 11-03-2022 at 11:02 AM.

  5. #5
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    As one of the players said This offense shoots itself in the foot too many times to get 10+ play drives.
    stupid penalties get them behind the sticks and into obvious passing downs.
    plays that KP isn’t really ready for.

    ps. Ben had 16 ints. 1 more then 2nd place guy Andrew luck. The GOAT had 4 less.

    Important to note because yinz “ league leader” usually hovers around the 30 int mark (Winston 30 Perron rookie 2

    was it even that big of a problem before the coach changed the offense philosophy??

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by flippy View Post
    I don’t see a big fundamental issue with this philosophy if you can execute.

    I think this requires an accurate QB and long term KP can be a fit for this system given his incredible accuracy.

    Improve the guys up front so they can protect him and open up the running game to make everything easier.

    Then as things start to click, passing on 1st down really is the most conservative low risk down to pass.

    After all we’re throwing 30,40,50 times a game. That doesn’t align with the conservative system you are allluding to Tomlin trying to run. I think when we get the passes to 20-25 a game that will be more reflective of a system that Tomlin is trying to conservatively run.
    Of course, you can't possibly only pass 20-25 times with a rushing game netting less than 3 ypc. In 2004, Ben's rookie year when he went 15-0 and was passing only 20 times a game, our ypc was 4.0. Our passing YPA was 8.3, much higher than now. Shades would love to have an offense like that but unfortunately it's not 2004 and he has gutted the talent needed to run anywhere close to an offense like that. With a completely deplete OL and one of the worst starting RBs in the NFL, it's just a pipe dream at this point.

  7. #7
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    There are many different ways to win games in the NFL. The general keys to winning games regardless if it's a high scoring or low scoring game doesn't change. The keys to winning games don't change regardless of offensive or defensive philosophy.

    IMO playing in closer games builds a teams character and can prepare a team perform in higher "stress"(close games) or higher stake situations (playoffs). The never quit attitude can be born of this. At some point a team is going to face adversity. Teams won't blow out opponents every week.

    Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.

    One issue wirh the Steelers this year is that they beat themselves in the close games.
    Last edited by BURGH86STEEL; 11-03-2022 at 02:34 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by WindyCitySteel View Post
    I originally posted this in NC's Covid or QB thread, but I think it deserves it's own. These statements from Tomlin in 2018 are quite possibly the genesis of this fundamental philosophical change on offense, which hasn't changed over 3.5 seasons, two coordinators, and five QBs. It's also the reason he's not firing Canada, IMO, because he doesn't think he's done anything wrong in implementing his plan.

    The Steelers were one of the worst TO differential teams in 2018, with few coming on D and Ben leading the league in INT, and Tomlin was very vocal about that costing them the playoffs. The offense has been extremely buttoned up and safe since then. While the best offenses in the league attack and score points, Tomlin believes the key to winning is simply eliminating risk on offense and winning low-scoring games. You simply can't win this way in today's NFL.

    https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...nfl-news-stats
    Maybe.

    I think the biggest thing is that since then we have had QBs that weren't good throwing intermediate and deep. Particularly over the middle.

    But I could see how not seeing success and turning it over a high rates when throwing to these areas could lead to structuring an offense that tried not to throw it to those places.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER View Post
    As one of the players said This offense shoots itself in the foot too many times to get 10+ play drives.
    stupid penalties get them behind the sticks and into obvious passing downs.
    ...
    This.

    We have an offense that sucks at generating explosive plays AND is has bad efficiency.

    It's not surprising that we generally don't score points.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BURGH86STEEL View Post
    There are many different ways to win games in the NFL. The general keys to winning games regardless if it's a high scoring or low scoring game doesn't change. The keys to winning games don't change regardless of offensive or defensive philosophy.

    IMO playing in closer games builds a teams character and can prepare a team perform in higher "stress"(close games) or higher stake situations (playoffs). The never quit attitude can be born of this. At some point a team is going to face adversity. Teams won't blow out opponents every week.

    Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.

    One issue wirh the Steelers this year is that they beat themselves in the close games.
    If you have no explosive plays and require 12-15 plays to score, you have little margin for error. That's the boat the Steelers are in, and it's by design.

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