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Thread: BIG BEN and TOMLIN

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Sorry NB but you are saying things I’ve never said.

    Your exaggerating in an effort to try to make everything look like a hate situation.

    Tomlin has had over a decade to hire HIS coaches… draft HIS players. And what has he accomplished in the playoffs?

    You can try and belittle as much as you want but the numbers since 2010 don’t lie.

    Do me a favor ; talk about the last 11 years exclusively.

    The reason I don’t have long conversations is because you guys refuse to talk about the lack of playoff success the last 11 years.

    Until you guys grow up, and stop only talking pre 2010 playoffs , then maybe one day there can be dialog.

    But the bottom line is my sig; it’s to the point and for the last 11 years , it’s accurate.
    I'm not a fan of cherry picking data so I like to look at the whole.

    We've covered this before, but you aren't even good at picking cherry picked timeframes (answers in black if you want to highlight them):

    When was the last time we went to the AFCC? Was that in the last 11 years? Jan 22, 2017. Yes.
    When was the last time we went to the SB? Was that in the last 11 years? Feb 6 2011, yes.

    It seems like you write things based on how you feel vs. trying to find the truth / facts and forming an opinion.

    Here's a couple of other things to think about, if you're interested in truth / facts:

    In playoff losses in your cherry picked timeline, can you think of any critical players that were injured and who replaced them? Do you think that had a significant effect on the talent level of the team that was on the field? Or were they still "stacked" as some posters put it?

    How many turnovers did we have in playoff losses in the last 11 years?

    How many times did we get better play at the QB position in those losses than our opponent (despite the fact that our QB has a significantly better resumee than many of the QBs we've lost against)? I posted the stats for Ben vs. Tebow upthread. It's not what you'd expect before the game.

    What is the turnover ratio in those games? Did the opposing defense score points (because that's pretty close to a guaranteed loss)?

    Just for the last question, here are the turnover numbers per PFF for our playoff losses in your cherry picked timeline (https://www.pro-football-reference.c...t/playoffs.htm):
    1. -5 (with a DTD)
    2. -2 (with a DTD)
    3. -2
    4. -1
    5. -2
    6. 0!
    7. -3


    From: https://www.footballperspective.com/...rnover-battle/
    As it turns out, the importance of winning the turnover battle has been remarkably static throughout NFL history.
    Last year, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games. And from 2007 to 2016, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games.<NB edit: I'd imagine that the rate gets worse the more you lose the ratio by and we're -2 or worse in most of those playoff games> In the decade of the ’70s, when turnover rates were much higher, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games. From 1950 to 2016, the average winning percentage of teams that won the turnover battle was 78%, too. Take a look:




    Seems pretty clear to me that the main reason we've lost in the playoffs over your cherry picked timeline (which includes an AFCC and SB loss) is turnovers. You don't need a super high level of understanding in football to understand that turnovers lead to losses.

    We're a combined -15 in those 7 games, never won the turnover battle, and only tied it once.

    And we were only -1 once. In 5 of the 7 games were were -2 or more.

    In the most recent games, we also allowed the defense to score on those turnovers, which makes that win% ever lower.


    And finally, why do you think that players are more important than coaching when we were winning SBs (i.e. Cowher's players) but that coaches are more important than players when we've struggled in the playoffs? I think the logically consistent posters tend to go one way or the other. For example, I think that Ben and the players get more credit for the playoff success than Tomlin. Just like I think they get more of the blame. Because I think that "coaches can lead the players to water but can't make them drink".
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 11-23-2021 at 10:14 AM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    ...
    You just get upset anytime someone points to the AFCCG in 2016. Just because it wasn’t a SB doesn’t mean it wasn’t a successful season with postseason success.
    ...
    We've also been to a SB in his 11 year timeframe (Feb 6, 2011 + 11 years = Feb 6 2022).

    But he doesn't bother with petty things like checking dates.

    Although it will fall out of the time frame soon if he keeps it at "the last 11 years" (so the time frame moves) instead of saying something like "since late 2010" (so it stays static with some meaningful event as the initial point).

    What I think he means is "since we last went to the SB". And the reason for that seems to be cherry picking IMO.

    He implies that the timeframe is based on "Cowher's players and coaches leaving", so I assume that the initial time should remain the same. But it will probably change after he realizes that it includes a SB.
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 11-23-2021 at 10:15 AM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Sorry NB but you are saying things I’ve never said.
    Can you please clarify what you think I'm saying that you never said?

    I don't want to misrepresent what you're saying because I'd prefer to have an honest conversation about this.

  4. #34
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    Last 11 SEASONS:

    2020 12-4 Lost Wild Card Round (Won 0 Rounds)
    2019 8-8 Missed Playoffs
    2018 9-6-1 Missed Playoffs
    2017 13-3 Lost Divisional Round (Won 0 Rounds)
    2016 11-5 Lost Conference Championship (Won 2 Rounds)
    2015 10-6 Lost Divisional Round (Won 1 Round)
    2014 11-5 Lost Wild Card Round (Won 0 Rounds)
    2013 8-8 Missed Playoffs
    2012 8-8 Missed Playoffs
    2011 12-4 Lost Wild Card Round (Won 0 Rounds)
    2010 12-4 Lost Super Bowl (Won 2 Rounds)
    Last edited by Eich; 11-23-2021 at 10:23 AM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eich View Post
    Las 11 SEASONS:

    2020 12-4 Lost Wild Card Round (Won 0 Rounds)
    2019 8-8 Missed Playoffs
    2018 9-6-1 Missed Playoffs
    2017 13-3 Lost Divisional Round (Won 0 Rounds)
    2016 11-5 Lost Conference Championship (Won 2 Rounds)
    2015 10-6 Lost Divisional Round (Won 1 Round)
    2014 11-5 Lost Wild Card Round (Won 0 Rounds)
    2013 8-8 Missed Playoffs
    2012 8-8 Missed Playoffs
    2011 12-4 Lost Wild Card Round (Won 0 Rounds)
    2010 12-4 Lost Super Bowl (Won 2 Rounds)
    the problem with this evidence is Steel Maniac is bad at math.

    I’m sure he wants you to start the season AFTER the SB because there is no way he wants to include that in his agenda.

    its time based.. lol
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    1st: When was the last time we went to the AFCC? Was it in the last 11 years?

    2nd: "Cowher's players" still haven't left though, right?

    Or is Ben not one of Cowher's players now?

    Maybe turnovers or poor play from "Cowher's player" (who he didn't want) contributed to some of those playoff losses?

    Like the time when Tim Tebow had a much better day than "Cowher's player"?

    As a reminder: Tebow had more yards, more passing TDs, fewer picks, more rushing yards, more rushing TDs...and a higher QB Rating by ~50 points (125.6 vs 75.9).

    This isn't to argue that Tebow is better than Ben (he's obviously not). It's to try to show you how silly these kinds of arguments are.

    Because you can't say that the players are more important than the coaching when they win (Cowher's players), but the coaching is more important than the players when they lose (Tomlin is responsible for everything bad ever). Well, you can...it's just logically inconsistent.
    Taking a 15 yard pass 80 yards on the first play of overtime will tend to make you look better than the other teams QB.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    the problem with this evidence is Steel Maniac is bad at math.

    I’m sure he wants you to start the season AFTER the SB because there is no way he wants to include that in his agenda.

    its time based.. lol
    The whole "Cowher's players/coaches" argument is just ridiculous. And I'm as frustrated as anyone that we haven't made much noise in the playoffs for while. But it's not like we've done nothing the past 11 seasons.

    This season had the potential for something special if everyone stayed healthy. The team we fielded week 1 can compete with anyone. But we don't have the depth on D to deal with the injuries.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eich View Post
    Last 11 SEASONS:

    2020 12-4 Lost Wild Card Round (Won 0 Rounds)
    2019 8-8 Missed Playoffs
    2018 9-6-1 Missed Playoffs
    2017 13-3 Lost Divisional Round (Won 0 Rounds)
    2016 11-5 Lost Conference Championship (Won 2 Rounds)
    2015 10-6 Lost Divisional Round (Won 1 Round)
    2014 11-5 Lost Wild Card Round (Won 0 Rounds)
    2013 8-8 Missed Playoffs
    2012 8-8 Missed Playoffs
    2011 12-4 Lost Wild Card Round (Won 0 Rounds)
    2010 12-4 Lost Super Bowl (Won 2 Rounds)
    But heck Tomlin has lots of in season wins.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYPITTFAN View Post
    But heck Tomlin has lots of in season wins.
    Have to win in the regular season to make the playoffs.
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    the problem with this evidence is Steel Maniac is bad at math.

    I’m sure he wants you to start the season AFTER the SB because there is no way he wants to include that in his agenda.

    its time based.. lol
    Steel Maniac's math is time based....lmao

    Boom.....................
    Steel Maniac when he's wrong: "My predictions are time based." lmao

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