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Thread: Green. Elite athleticism relative to what’s most important at the center position.

  1. #1
    Legend

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    Green. Elite athleticism relative to whats most important at the center position.

    There was talk of other centers scoring higher on ras scores. Why Kendrick?

    Most important measure for the position is explosiveness. The practical benefit is that that initial leg drive is crucial for the position. His explosiveness scores are better than the guys he is compared to. Elite.

    Speed has value as it allows one to get to the second level. This is seen on tape a lot.
    He is faster than the comps, elite there too

    His agility is “good” not great. Agility is often underrated true.
    But center?
    I would suggest it matters less at center than most positions.
    I just don’t see elite agility testing as being much better than good.

    Weakest scores. Size/strength.
    Only poor scores was size. First of all, I don’t see “size” as a measure of athleticism at all. If you stick to REAL measures of athleticism, I believe Green is most athletic.

    That is not to say size has no value, it does. Manute Bol did nothing but stand around with his height and block shots. But I don’t think his athleticism was elite. But it has value.

    I would contend that of the line positions, size matters least at center.

    Going back to “strength”. It is measured purely based on bench press scores. Good not great.

    But here is the reason for this post.

    How strong are a centers legs. That DIRECTLY relates to LEG DRIVE…shows why explosiveness matters. Pushing people back is more a function of leg strength than how many reps of 225 you do.

    How strong are his legs?

    700 pound squat people:

    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 05-31-2021 at 01:28 AM.

  2. #2
    Legend

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    squatting 700 lbs is nuts.

    my knees hurt just thinking about that.
    Only a true coward puts someone on ignore on a message board.

  3. #3
    Backup

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    Wow...700lbs is amazing. You read an article like this and it might make you suspect our scouts and coaches know what they are doing and Kendrick has the goods

  4. #4
    Legend

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    That's impressive.

    I hope he's a great center

  5. #5
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    Watching tape he reminds me of Pouncey. He has good footwork and awareness. Can move in space and get to the second level.
    His weakness will be against bigger OL... same problem Pouncey had.
    But a young Pouncey ain't a bad thing.

  6. #6
    Legend

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Watching tape he reminds me of Pouncey. He has good footwork and awareness. Can move in space and get to the second level.
    His weakness will be against bigger OL... same problem Pouncey had.
    But a young Pouncey ain't a bad thing.
    But THIS is my point in the thread. We say that cause be ain't 6'5" 320. We see his as just a fast and twitchy undersized center. And that he is.

    But dude is EXTREMELY strong where is counts. In a measurement that has no RAS score (no doubt they don't want to destroy people's knees for scouts).

    A 700 pound squat?

    Size doesn't move people. Strength, particularly leg drive does.

    Look at the tape again. You see that leg drive. Pouncey is more like a LT at Center. Can't get past him but doesn't drive people back. This kid locks on and takes you wherever he wants.

    They both are athletic, and get to the second level quickly. What is exciting is that when it comes to athleticism, this dude makes has the measurables to make the "athletic" Pouncey look slow.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 05-31-2021 at 11:52 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    But THIS is my point in the thread. We say that cause be ain't 6'5" 320. We see his as just a fast and twitchy undersized center. And that he is.

    But dude is EXTREMELY strong where is counts. In a measurement that has no RAS score (no doubt they don't want to destroy people's knees for scouts).

    A 700 pound squat?

    Size doesn't move people. Strength, particularly leg drive does.

    Look at the tape again. You see that leg drive. Pouncey is more like a LT at Center. Can't get past him but doesn't drive people back. This kid locks on and takes you wherever he wants.

    They both are athletic, and get to the second level quickly. What is exciting is that when it comes to athleticism, this dude makes has the measurables to make the "athletic" Pouncey look slow.
    It would be logical to assume his size would give him leverage advantages. As you rightly say strength matters.
    Taking pride in the fact that I'm right so often and he is wrong so often, that Steel Maniac has to have me on "Ignore"

  8. #8
    Pro Bowler

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    The position of OL and center in particular is an area I'm very familiar with. So lets take a look into what it takes from both the neck up n from the neck down:

    Neck Up- Centers need to make the calls on first n second show along the o line. To do that you need to be able to identify a few things 1. able to read "the show" and be confident enough to get that to other O linemen n or your backs. 2. On overloads you have to identify the slides. And often those overloads occur late so centers often need to make more than one call ie: Mike walks out of the A gap late and moves to the 8 hole where he is setting up to fire off the edge.
    Once those reads n checks can be called out timely it's a huge step in their development. Qb's get hammered when both the center n back take out" the Mike "n the SS has a free run to the qb so communication is a real key.
    Neck down: Centers probably more then other linemen tend to be good knee benders. They must win the game of LEVERAGE at the los. Strike a rising blow, get under the pads of whoever is in the" A" gap and get locked on and turned the defender out of the hole and or up field. The center's ability to make the snap and get hands under the defender before he gets clubbed, push pulled or bull rushed is a essential. A stalemate is not a win in the running game.
    Pass blocking skills have to be good enough where he does not give to much ground such that his qb can't step up if needed.
    He needs to execute the shotgun snap routinely.
    Getting to the 2nd level n hitting a moving target is critical. Ole in open spaces shuts an O down. Not every block needs to be a pancake but one needs to wall off and stay engaged at the second level.
    Having powerful legs is a great tool but being quick enough to win that leverage battle requires strength, quickness and short area agility. Giving up 30 or 40 lbs could hurt at the pivot position. Shorter arms too can make things difficult. DT's like the Ravens have who are 340+ or 6'8 like Calais Campbell will be a challenge for any interior linemen.
    Playing the Ravens will be a great test of what a player like Green has or doesn't have. I for one would like to see him closer to 325lbs or 330lbs. So he doesn't get worn down by those larger tackles. Should be interesting to see how he performs during his rookie year.

  9. #9
    Legend

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Watching tape he reminds me of Pouncey. He has good footwork and awareness. Can move in space and get to the second level.
    His weakness will be against bigger OL... same problem Pouncey had.
    But a young Pouncey ain't a bad thing.
    We’d all go for that! Here’s hoping!
    From the 2010-2020 season, (A 10 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks.

    Dolphin fans in the 90s held on to Don Shula for too long for what he did in the playoffs in the 70s...
    Are the same as Steeler fans (of 2020 ) holding on to Tomlin for too long for what he did in 2008, with Cowher's players & coaches.

  10. #10
    Legend

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    We’d all go for that! Here’s hoping!
    but but but Colbert didn't pick a center earlier like you wanted him to
    Only a true coward puts someone on ignore on a message board.

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