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Thread: So James Pierre is going to be there other starting Cornerback?

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.wizard View Post
    Come on now Bidens arms are too short and he didnt even play in the Senior Bowl.
    Politics here? Good job Wiz Biden looked like he was falling asleep at the table and can barley make it down a fight of straights by himself recently. They say he has very lower wonderlic. He is having his own press conference, probably because he can't do one live.

    Not much of a draft grade here, he's lucky to be in the business. A figure head head coach type, best suited for an owner who wants a top 3 draft pick.
    Plan to spend 75 million in cap space in 2022 ( most in the NFL ) and use the 2 comp picks ( 3rd and 5th ) for a killer 2022 draft. We will be back hopefully with better coaching.

  2. #142
    Legend

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    You're an idiot.
    You are such a meanie.

    Are you comparing Sutton a career back up to Haden?
    In speed? Yes. You said Sutton is too slow. That's all. If Sutton is too slow so is our best corner.

    Don't ya think Haden had a lot more going for him, after all he was a top10 overall pick?
    Yes, it proves that timed 40 speed isn't everything.

    For the record based on how he plays I think Layne is special teams and might be cut this year.
    This is correct. But I bring him up to refute your ridiculous "measurables are everything" reasoning in this thread.

    If you care the two by workout #'s
    I don't care nearly about workout "numbers" as you do. They are 100 percent of your take on Sutton.

    For example:

    There are certain desirables to players outside corner. Sutton is just an okay tackler and I'm being kind, not fast at all, has very short 30" arms, and isn't tall or a leaper. IMO, he's s better suited for inside and MANY types of WR's would get to him as the #2 starting.
    I'm probably going above your head, but he's not a deep man coverage guy....would get beaten by faster WR's on Fly's posts and corners. I don't see him with his short arms and lack vertical of side being a good sideline defender at all, or a guy suited to cover out routes. You think he's going to win jump balls vs bigger WR's? Nope, not with that vertical, short arms, and average height. Some WR will tower over him. If you start outside, you don't get to pick the match up's, they do. With his lack of size, he won't be a good comeback or curl route defender either. Bigger WR's will box him out.
    Im not saying he shouldn't be in the NFL. He has a role as dime defender and has had that role for years.
    He was not limited to dime last season. Sutton played in over half of the defenses snaps...whenever we started in nickel HE started not Hilton. Whenever we started base HE started not Pierre. Sutton was the number 3 corner dude by any definition.

    I thought you watch the game, "with your eyes".

    We know his ceiling. At least the Steelers should after a few years of having him.
    But YOU base that on numbers, NOT your eyes. You make a bunch of assumptions about Sutton based on measurables. You have not SEEN him be exploited as you describe have you?

    Nobody argues measurables don't matter. Dude will never be Rod Woodson or Deon Sanders who have elite measurables.

    But if a 4.52 forty guarantees you get toasted all day long why is Haden going to probowls? An inch or two higher reach ain't gonna stop people from running past you.

    You know how 5'9" Haden is not toasted every week while Artie 6 foot 4.4 forty was?
    Smarts and skill. Not big hands.

    From day one of being drafted, Sutton was applauded for those traits. And when you, "watch with your eyes" you see a guy who is rarely out of position when a ball comes his way.

    We know his ceiling. At least the Steelers should after a few years of having him.
    Truth is WE DONT know his ceiling because we have not seen him tested enough.

    The Steelers HAVE seen him tested in practice, against our best guys, WAY MORE than we've seen. He is not the leftover scrap you make him out to be.

    Truth is we PRIORITIZED signing him for a reason. They really like him.

    There are no guarantees. But give the dude a chance. 5'10 and 4.52 does not mean you cannot be a good outside corner.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 06-13-2021 at 09:41 AM.

  3. #143
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    Anybody care to share the name of the best corner Tomlin has ever coached?

    Hint, he was first team all pro, has lead the league in picks, all 2000 decade team, gets annual HOF consideration.

    He also is under 5'10" and ran a 4.68 40 at the combine.

    Any takers?
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 06-13-2021 at 09:54 AM.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Anybody care to share the name of the best corner Tomlin has ever coached?

    Hint, he was first team all pro, has lead the league in picks, all 2000 decade team, gets annual HOF consideration.

    He also is under 5'10" and ran a 4.68 40 at the combine.

    Any takers?
    Ronde Barber.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by BURGH86STEEL View Post
    Ronde Barber.
    Yup and let me add.
    Under 5'10 4.68 40 for four years did Jack squat before Tomlin.

    Literally the least physically gifted elite corner of this era.

    Don't tell me the man can't coach when our because guys like Burns flopped. When coaching secondary was his job he was PEERLESS.

  6. #146
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    I am not sure if Joel actually believes that Tomlin and the Steelers will start Pierre or whether Joel just totally believes in him after all of 10 career tackles. But I guarantee you that Tomlin will not rush Pierre into a starting job just because Joel thinks he "looks the part".

    I think one of Tomlins best attributes is that he doesn't rush players into starting roles until they have shown definitely that they are ready for those roles. Some First rounders get the opportunity to start right away; however, lower draft picks and college FAs never get starting roles under Tomlin with a scant resume just because they have some physical attributes that seem good.

    Sutton had to work his way up to starting role. This is his fourth year. He first had to demonstrate his ability in different spots yearly and his production and workload grew the last two years. Now he is ready to get a starting nod and we'll see what he can do. Joel mischaracterizes Sutton in many ways, and I'm not going to waste my breath trying to refute his nonsensical and repetitives rants.

    if Pierre can show ability that transcends something greater than 10 career tackles , good height and longer arms. Then maybe in a few years his role might expand.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelerphile
    if Pierre can show ability that transcends something greater than 10 career tackles , good height and longer arms. Then maybe in a few years his role might expand.
    I don't think Pierre will necessarily have to wait a few years for his role to expand. In fact, I think Pierre has a good shot at becoming the #2 outside CB, along with Haden, by season's end. I don't know if he will, but I sure wouldn't assume at this point that Sutton has that responsibility locked down. I do think Sutton has a clear edge over Pierre in slot coverage.

    We shall see.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I don't think Pierre will necessarily have to wait a few years for his role to expand. In fact, I think Pierre has a good shot at becoming the #2 outside CB, along with Haden, by season's end. I don't know if he will, but I sure wouldn't assume at this point that Sutton has that responsibility locked down. I do think Sutton has a clear edge over Pierre in slot coverage.

    We shall see.
    I meant expand into a starting role, not into other roles such as slot back or sub packages. I think you and Joel either overestimate Pierre or underestimate Sutton. I am not quite as enthusiastic as you guys are. He hasn't shown me enough to jump on his bandwagon with both feet. I agree that he looks better than Layne. Layne has demonstrated no progression though. The Steelers need DBS ; so if he starts I think it will be because of injury.

  9. #149
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    [QUOTE=Captain Lemming;837174]You are such a meanie.


    In speed? Yes. You said Sutton is too slow. That's all. If Sutton is too slow so is our best corner.

    Yes, it proves that timed 40 speed isn't everything. >>> Where did I stay that? I said a speed WR would Burn him. And a Big WR will have his way with him


    This is correct. But I bring him up to refute your ridiculous "measurables are everything" reasoning in this thread.

    >> A few obvious strikes for who's ideal outside. You won't get it. Very short arms, weaker than most slower than most, etc...

    I don't care nearly about workout "numbers" as you do. They are 100 percent of your take on Sutton.

    For example:

    He was not limited to dime last season. Sutton played in over half of the defenses snaps...whenever we started in nickel HE started not Hilton. Whenever we started base HE started not Pierre. Sutton was the number 3 corner dude by any definition.


    >>Sutton was our #4 CB. HE was sooooo good, we drafted Layne, and was never more than our 4th corner. Got it? Our #3 CB was Hilton. Sutton was really great, as reason why the Steelers broke the bank for Nelson last year, right?


    But YOU base that on numbers, NOT your eyes. You make a bunch of assumptions about Sutton based on measurables. You have not SEEN him be exploited as you describe have you?

    >>> Hey if he was physical like Richard Sherman was..but the opposite. Its not all speed and he won't be covering the #4 option the Steelers say. Go ahead, start him in the pre-season, you'll see.

    Remember if moved to the Slot to because the Steelers don't think he belong on the outside. Got it? Just remember I told you so.


    Nobody argues measurables don't matter. Dude will never be Rod Woodson or Deon Sanders who have elite measurables.

    >>> He won't be Aneas Williams either. Or William Gay or D Townsend.


    Truth is WE DONT know his ceiling because we have not seen him testedenough.

    >>B()LL ****. The Steelers have him #4 in the depth chart and drafted someone else last year until cap cuts and a free agent loss. To say the Steelers and fans who have watched him enough is BS. I seen him have some tickling issues too. As a slot guy he's not very physical, and I never saw him add jack to the blitz like Hilton could.

    The Steelers HAVE seen him tested in practice, against our best guys, WAY MORE than we've seen. He is not the leftover scrap you make him out to be.

    >>> And you have seen and now this? I think Claypool abused him and Ju-ju's too big and strong. Even Ebron would mis match him Might even look like a good blocker vs Sutton, way l, and nearly as fast.

    Truth is we PRIORITIZED signing him for a reason. They really like him.

    >>>We did? No, the Steelers prioritized Hiton.

    There are no guarantees. But give the dude a chance. 5'10 and 4.52 does not mean you cannot be a good outside corner

    >>> Never said he can't, just that he's not likely, . But add in T-rex arms, a slight build, and show me one of those types like Sutton starting on the outside. Go ahead, you can pick from 64 players.

    YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT"S DESIRABLE AT OUTSIDE CORNER. I did not like the Burns pick at all because he sucked in film. I would have taken the trade down offer from Arizona and picked Howard.

    Again, height, strength , long arms and physically matter out there....things Sutton lacks. But guess who doesn't? Why I am wasting time on you, everyone who knows what they are talking about thinks your an idiot. Now fair weather fan who invests in hope, just know that's not a strategy. You can say can, I'll look for examples and tell you the odds say no for a reason,

    END.
    Last edited by Joel Buchsbaum; 06-13-2021 at 05:09 PM.
    Plan to spend 75 million in cap space in 2022 ( most in the NFL ) and use the 2 comp picks ( 3rd and 5th ) for a killer 2022 draft. We will be back hopefully with better coaching.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by BURGH86STEEL View Post
    Ronde Barber.
    Didn't he have 4 season under his belt before Tomlin became his coach? Yep

    This is not a guy Tomlin pounded the table, he inherited Barber, who started 39 games prior to seeing Tomlin and history shows did fine before and after him.

    So I'd hold back a bit on Tomlin coaching him fantastically. The numbers say the similar for the coach before and after him. What did Barber himself say? That Tampa team had Sapp, Lynch, and Brooks. Three hall of fame level players on it. Hardly the best DB Tomlin coached or was a coach on the roster for. Best corner he coached as a DB coach? Probably on Tampa.
    Plan to spend 75 million in cap space in 2022 ( most in the NFL ) and use the 2 comp picks ( 3rd and 5th ) for a killer 2022 draft. We will be back hopefully with better coaching.

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