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Thread: Heart and Steel - book by Bill Cowher

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    no.. Cowher’s last season he had 8 wins and missed the playoffs. I guess you didn’t watch the games that year either.

    ..and that is the rub. Fans of Cowher who suggest all our success was due to him fail to realize he won 1 SB in 3 years with Ben.
    Don't be foolish, he did leave on top, or are you judging head coaches on their last year when he had reasons to retire?

    Ben did not play well in Cowher's super bowl win. Duh

    The team he left consisted of 21 of 22 of the same starters starters also won a super bowl for Tomlin, this time thanks to Ben playing well. And that's a fact. What did Tomlin add again? The rub, which I predict will be in you face from several posters is coming after the Steelers next .500 or losing season. Come up with a good excuse, ok? Until then. I just care about winning in the playoffs. That's been a pretty long time. Five years and counting...

    PS: Yeah, just 1 SB in three years. Is that supposed to be bad?
    Last edited by Joel Buchsbaum; 06-06-2021 at 08:38 AM.
    Plan to spend 75 million in cap space in 2022 ( most in the NFL ) and use the 2 comp picks ( 3rd and 5th ) for a killer 2022 draft. We will be back hopefully with better coaching.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    And Ike was on the roster...and Pierre was not starting at the time

    Cowher was a good coach who was at the helm of consistently competitive teams. He generally underachieved in the playoffs, but one Cinderella run at (almost) the end of his career put some extra shine on a very good career.

    He is the same coach as Tomlin, just Tomlin won at the beginning (perhaps pumping up expectations) and Cowher won at the end (after setting expectations for falling short in the playoffs). Our recent playoff performances put a bit of tarnish on Tomlin's career in the present.

    But, like Cowher I think we'll appreciate what we have now when Tomlin's gone.

    PlanetSteelers message boards in 2040 will be complaining that Coach McNewguy sucks compared to Tomlin and isn't worthy of walking by all those trophies every morning (hopefully 7 or more by the time we're on our next coach).
    Agree with all of this.

    Maybe to keep the board on the edge, the Steelers will have hired Coach McNewLady.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by flippy View Post
    Agree with all of this.

    Maybe to keep the board on the edge, the Steelers will have hired Coach McNewLady.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Buchsbaum View Post
    Don't be foolish, he did leave on top, or are you judging head coaches on their last year when he had reasons to retire?

    Ben did not play well in Cowher's super bowl win. Duh

    The team he left consisted of 21 of 22 of the same starters starters also won a super bowl for Tomlin, this time thanks to Ben playing well. And that's a fact. What did Tomlin add again? The rub, which I predict will be in you face from several posters is coming after the Steelers next .500 or losing season. Come up with a good excuse, ok? Until then. I just care about winning in the playoffs. That's been a pretty long time. Five years and counting...

    PS: Yeah, just 1 SB in three years. Is that supposed to be bad?
    Going 1 - 1 in SB appearances in 15 years is a pretty high bar for coaches.

    Whether they were at the helm of a team before or after 2007.

    <begin sarcasm>

    What?!!!

    You mean the two coaches I said were basically the same have the same number of championships and SB appearances in almost the same amount of time!

    It can't be! One of those coaches is amazing and the other doesn't even deserve to be a position coach!

    <end sarcasm>

    They are the same coach. They just have slightly different strengths / weaknesses (although I think they have the same core strength of motivating players).

    It's intellectually dishonest to claim that one is / was excellent when the other is / was trash.

    I think there are a couple posters that think both were bad, which I would say is at least logically consistent. But with expectations that are so high there there would only be a hand full of good coaches in the history of the league. And really only one when you consider that the salary cap made consistent success with QBs that weren't on cheap rookie deals* much, much harder to attain.

    * We have to remember that Cowher didn't have the advantage that McV or Carroll had with cheap good (or at least good-ish) QBs. The inefficiency was created after Ben's rookie deal. This is something I missed originally in the long repetitive discussions on Tomlin / Cowher that haunt our off seasons. But someone (I think Cap Lemming) pointed it out to me. Notice here that when someone is proven to be incorrect about something, they should stop using that narrative / argument.
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 06-06-2021 at 11:06 AM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Buchsbaum View Post
    Don't be foolish, he did leave on top, or are you judging head coaches on their last year when he had reasons to retire?

    Ben did not play well in Cowher's super bowl win. Duh

    The team he left consisted of 21 of 22 of the same starters starters also won a super bowl for Tomlin, this time thanks to Ben playing well. And that's a fact. What did Tomlin add again? The rub, which I predict will be in you face from several posters is coming after the Steelers next .500 or losing season. Come up with a good excuse, ok? Until then. I just care about winning in the playoffs. That's been a pretty long time. Five years and counting...

    PS: Yeah, just 1 SB in three years. Is that supposed to be bad?
    its supposed to provide perspective. When you look at all the coaches and QB’s not named Billicheat and Brady you see this narrative doesn’t hold up of multiple SB victories based off of a 3 year window.

    I think the same expectations were put on Tomlin. SB win in 2008 and another appearance in 2011. Surely fans expect a SB every 3 years based on that small sample size but that isn’t how it works. Especially when you add in Ben rebuilding, injuries, salary cap struggles, etc.
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    This is something I missed originally in the long repetitive discussions on Tomlin / Cowher that haunt our off seasons. But someone (I think Cap Lemming) pointed it out to me. Notice here that when someone is proven to be incorrect about something, they should stop using that narrative / argument.
    unfortunately they don't, and that's what is so annoying.

    even after being proven to be incorrect, the same false narratives and arguments continue to be repeated over and over and over again.
    Only a true coward puts someone on ignore on a message board.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Buchsbaum View Post
    Don't be foolish, he did leave on top, or are you judging head coaches on their last year when he had reasons to retire?

    Ben did not play well in Cowher's super bowl win. Duh

    The team he left consisted of 21 of 22 of the same starters starters also won a super bowl for Tomlin, this time thanks to Ben playing well. And that's a fact. What did Tomlin add again? The rub, which I predict will be in you face from several posters is coming after the Steelers next .500 or losing season. Come up with a good excuse, ok? Until then. I just care about winning in the playoffs. That's been a pretty long time. Five years and counting...

    PS: Yeah, just 1 SB in three years. Is that supposed to be bad?
    Joel, your wasting your time. They believe what they believe and you , me and some others believe other wise.

    You will be having the same discussion over and over again about the same thing.

    You had this same conversation at least 6 times and your fairly new still.

    Do like I did and just put it in your sig and donít discuss it anymore.

    Time always proves whoís right.

    Just put it in your sig and leave it be.

    Itís better to just have discussions on team building aspects of the organization. Let time determine the winner.
    From the 2010-2020 season, (A 10 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks.

    Dolphin fans in the 90ís held on to Don Shula for too long for what he did in the playoffs in the 70ís...
    Are the same as Steeler fans (of 2020 ) holding on to Tomlin for too long for what he did in 2008, with Cowher's players & coaches.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Joel, your wasting your time. They believe what they believe and you , me and some others believe other wise.

    You will be having the same discussion over and over again about the same thing.

    You had this same conversation at least 6 times and your fairly new still.

    Do like I did and just put it in your sig and don’t discuss it anymore.

    Time always proves who’s right.

    Just put it in your sig and leave it be.

    It’s better to just have discussions on team building aspects of the organization. Let time determine the winner.
    The only thing is that time has proven you wrong. That is isn't about being a winner or being right vs wrong. It's simply attempting to apply some logic, reasonable thoughts, and opinions why Tomlin remains the HC. Everything wasn't Tomlin's fault or doing. There were many factors beyond Tomlin's or the organization's control. When weighing all the factors it's easy to understand why Tomlin remains the HC.

    Tomlin and the Steelers will eventually part ways at some point. Ummm errr then I guess you will be right after 15+ years of him being a HC?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Do like I did and just put it in your sig and don’t discuss it anymore.

    Time always proves who’s right.

    Just put it in your sig and leave it be.
    you mean the Dolphins never winning anything after Don Shula left?

    sure proves your point about getting rid of Tomlin
    Only a true coward puts someone on ignore on a message board.

  10. #50
    Pro Bowler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    Going 1 - 1 in SB appearances in 15 years is a pretty high bar for coaches.

    Whether they were at the helm of a team before or after 2007.

    <begin sarcasm>

    What?!!!

    You mean the two coaches I said were basically the same have the same number of championships and SB appearances in almost the same amount of time!

    It can't be! One of those coaches is amazing and the other doesn't even deserve to be a position coach!

    <end sarcasm>

    They are the same coach. They just have slightly different strengths / weaknesses (although I think they have the same core strength of motivating players).

    It's intellectually dishonest to claim that one is / was excellent when the other is / was trash.

    I think there are a couple posters that think both were bad, which I would say is at least logically consistent. But with expectations that are so high there there would only be a hand full of good coaches in the history of the league. And really only one when you consider that the salary cap made consistent success with QBs that weren't on cheap rookie deals* much, much harder to attain.

    * We have to remember that Cowher didn't have the advantage that McV or Carroll had with cheap good (or at least good-ish) QBs. The inefficiency was created after Ben's rookie deal. This is something I missed originally in the long repetitive discussions on Tomlin / Cowher that haunt our off seasons. But someone (I think Cap Lemming) pointed it out to me. Notice here that when someone is proven to be incorrect about something, they should stop using that narrative / argument.
    Maybe you can help me? What are Tomlin's strengths as a coach? All ears on this question, and his biggest fans can reply if they wish, just be ready for it.

    Cowher is 5-1 with Ben in the playoffs and he didn't Ben even play that well for him as he was so young, Tomlin's record is hat with Ben? See a big difference? Cowher did not win a super bowl because of Ben. His team did. Tomlin won his SB with am amazing comeback comeback by Ben and miracle throw and catch ( With Cowher's players, 21 of 22 starters ) to win his super bowl.

    Cowher is 12-9 in th playoffs, playing with some average QB's, and I'm being kind. What's Tomlin overall playoff record, and GASP, it could be a losing one this season if we make at the playoffs.

    Did Cowher always have new stadium money or did Rooney blow losing perhaps our best franchise player in history failing to re-sign him and giving up our AFC championship QB entering his prime? Just a few questions.

    I never said one was excellent the other trash. One was excellent, the other over rated. Expectations given the talent we had was high. We under achieved under one each.
    Last edited by Joel Buchsbaum; 06-06-2021 at 07:10 PM.
    Plan to spend 75 million in cap space in 2022 ( most in the NFL ) and use the 2 comp picks ( 3rd and 5th ) for a killer 2022 draft. We will be back hopefully with better coaching.

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