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Thread: Heart and Steel - book by Bill Cowher

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by BURGH86STEEL View Post
    Tomlin and Cowher were equally good coaches up to this point of their carreers. Tomlin and Cowher are both winners and champions. That's good enough for me.

    indeed.. but unfortunately some have to cut Tomlin off at the knees to make Cowher stand taller.
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by steeler_fan_in_t.o. View Post
    Of course. Once reason leaves I usually do as well. Whether the discussion is sports, politics, or any other topic. The truth is that both sides of a discussion often have valid points. It's a shame when people refuse to even hear what the other person is saying instead of turning it into a shouting contest.
    Sometimes I see it as people fighting windmills.

    Theyíre not shouting at one another. Theyíre usually shouting at themselves cause fundamentally they have to realize the other side has tuned them out.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    indeed.. but unfortunately some have to cut Tomlin off at the knees to make Cowher stand taller.
    One problem is people simply don't respect what Tomlin helped this organization accomplish. It's unfortunate that some people can't appreciate what they have now. Maybe the respect will come years after Tomlin and the Steelers part ways?

  4. #124
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    This is in response to Joel responding to my post from yesterday. As far as Kordell goes, he was a decent QB, but when he went up against great defenses- like Denver, etc. He folded. I didn't have a problem when he was replaced. As far as Tomlin goes, IF he continues to perform the way he does towards the end of the year, and it stays repetitive, then its time for a change. Sometimes, change is good.

    We are all bickering on here about this team that we all root for. We all are Steelers fans for different reasons, I suppose. I'm a local guy who has a father thats an Eagles fan. I'm dating myself here, but I remember watching Roman Gabriel QBing that team and sukking, while TB was winning on the western side. they were on my local TV every Sunday, so I switched teams at a very young age. My dad never lets me forget. I am happy for him that the Eagles won a SB while he is alive. He isn't getting any younger. And Yep, when the Eagles and Steelers play, we try to get to a game. Like this year in Philly.

    As the years went on, my love for our team grew more as I got to see what football was all about- coaching, the business side, etc. I remember going to Carlisle, to watch the Steelers scrimmage the Redskins every summer, and we got to talk with the players, etc. But the Rooneys were always. Always, my favorite football family ownership group. I always was influenced by their actions. Their love for their city, the tradition, their loyalty to their staffs, and how they treated their players. Cowher said it best after that SB win. He wanted to win one for Dan. I had a relative in York, where I grew up, that had a multi-million dollar business and he treated his 'family' the same as how The Rooneys treat their employees. My cousin once told me, I have 240 plus employees over there in that one plant, and I will never EVER close down that plant and lay those people off, just so I can move it all to China and make more in profits. We'll stay here and and pay them all, so be it. Sorry for the rant, but your cut on the Ronneys touched a nerve. Personally. So, I never met the old man, or any of them, yet, but they are out of the same mold as my cousin. My cousin used to tell me that he did deals with handshakes, and his word was his bond. The Chief used to say the same.

    Concluding, I don't have a problem letting a coach go. Sometimes, its time. I'm also not a fan of the Rooney Rule, as I'm a firm believer in hiring the best candidate regardless of color, etc. But I understand why its there, and if it gets more minorities the opportunity to interview, etc. thats great.

    We're all fans for various reasons. We all want them to win Championships. We get greedy sometimes, because of the success over the years.. 50 plus years! We have the most wins of any team over that period. Etc Etc. And in that 50 plus years? The worst record we've had is something around 5-11. I know its summer, and not a lot going on, but don't forget why we're all here. We are all fans of the best franchise in all of sports. Carry on..

    And GO STEELERS!
    Last edited by pfelix73; 06-10-2021 at 06:48 PM.
    6- Time Super Bowl Champions......
    IX X XIII XIV XL XLIII

    2012 MNF Executive Champion






  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfelix73 View Post
    This is in response to Joel responding to my post from yesterday. As far as Kordell goes, he was a decent QB, but when he went up against great defenses- like Denver, etc. He folded. I didn't have a problem when he was replaced. As far as Tomlin goes, IF he continues to perform the way he does towards the end of the year, and it stays repetitive, then its time for a change. Sometimes, change is good.

    We are all bickering on here about this team that we all root for. We all are Steelers fans for different reasons, I suppose. I'm a local guy who has a father thats an Eagles fan. I'm dating myself here, but I remember watching Roman Gabriel QBing that team and sukking, while TB was winning on the western side. they were on my local TV every Sunday, so I switched teams at a very young age. My dad never lets me forget. I am happy for him that the Eagles won a SB while he is alive. He isn't getting any younger. And Yep, when the Eagles and Steelers play, we try to get to a game. Like this year in Philly.

    As the years went on, my love for our team grew more as I got to see what football was all about- coaching, the business side, etc. I remember going to Carlisle, to watch the Steelers scrimmage the Redskins every summer, and we got to talk with the players, etc. But the Rooneys were always. Always, my favorite football family ownership group. I always was influenced by their actions. Their love for their city, the tradition, their loyalty to their staffs, and how they treated their players. Cowher said it best after that SB win. He wanted to win one for Dan. I had a relative in York, where I grew up, that had a multi-million dollar business and he treated his 'family' the same as how The Rooneys treat their employees. My cousin once told me, I have 240 plus employees over there in that one plant, and I will never EVER close down that plant and lay those people off, just so I can move it all to China and make more in profits. We'll stay here and and pay them all, so be it. Sorry for the rant, but your cut on the Ronneys touched a nerve. Personally. So, I never met the old man, or any of them, yet, but they are out of the same mold as my cousin. My cousin used to tell me that he did deals with handshakes, and his word was his bond. The Chief used to say the same.

    Concluding, I don't have a problem letting a coach go. Sometimes, its time. I'm also not a fan of the Rooney Rule, as I'm a firm believer in hiring the best candidate regardless of color, etc. But I understand why its there, and if it gets more minorities the opportunity to interview, etc. thats great.

    We're all fans for various reasons. We all want them to win Championships. We get greedy sometimes, because of the success over the years.. 50 plus years! We have the most wins of any team over that period. Etc Etc. And in that 50 plus years? The worst record we've had is something around 5-11. I know its summer, and not a lot going on, but don't forget why we're all here. We are all fans of the best franchise in all of sports. Carry on..

    And GO STEELERS!
    You have a nice story. I became a Steeler fan in the 70's ( Dating myself ) When the Jets and Giants sucked and a 5-6 yr old kid and asked his dad who the good teams were, he said watch the playoffs for better football. I did, with him and a crowd and the Steelers won their first Super Bowl that year! Then one of his friends noticed how much I enjoyed the games and bought me the shirt for my birthday and I was hooked. And then 3 more.

    As far as you go, calling Kordell a decent QB, I disagree. He was a very flawed one, prone to turnovers, in-accurate and lousy passer in general. Wasn't he beaten out by the likes of Kent Graham and Tommy Maddox? Yep? Jim Miller too. Do you really want to review his stats with me? End of. Let's save some time, he had career QB rating of 70.7, threw more interceptions than TD's, was inaccurate, and took more sacks than he should have. That is not decent in my book. Breaking hearts in big games didn't help.

    Heck yes I think Cowher who really didn't have better options stuck with Kordell for too long. The team did. But then again if you're waking up with Mike Tomzack and Jim Miller at QB, who are you playing? We could have had Drew Brees in the 2001 draft, Chad Pennington in 2000 when it was clear we needed a QB, but nope. Liked both guys, Breese a bit better but had no feel for him being a good as he was.

    There is always hope, but change at head coach? Not a chance with Art Rooney II . He just gave Tomlin a 3 year deal. He can win just 7 game and lose 10 this year. He's sill going to be the head coach. Sure he can in theory go 6-11 and take the minority owners advice and broom him, but it will cost two years contract to broom him. I highly doubt Rooney would pay that barring an off the field incident that forced his hand.

    We agree on Rooney and his rule. But I think the Rooney's with some business decisions hurt our Steelers in the 1990's. Probably cost them at least one other super bowl appearance. They were cheap and it was a problem in the 1990's. Give me Woodson, and O'Donnell post 1995 and your talking about another ring. Not to be. Rooney's call. If you really want to know, watch Rod Woodson a football story when the topic of free agency comes up, it's one of the very few times you'll see a mild mannered Woodson become angry. Bill Cowher by the way called Rod the best player he ever coached, so you know he wanted him back.

    May goal was not to piss people off on Rooney, I respect the family in particular the chief. He's NFL Royality. His son was a good administrator for NFL. His son Art II had clown sized shoes to fill.

    -JB
    Last edited by Joel Buchsbaum; 06-10-2021 at 08:25 PM.
    Plan to spend 75 million in cap space in 2022 ( most in the NFL ) and use the 2 comp picks ( 3rd and 5th ) for a killer 2022 draft. We will be back hopefully with better coaching.

  6. #126
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    Some people hate the Rooney Rule.. but other hate that a rule had to be made just so worthy candidates could get a freaking interview.

    Remember, this is a league that forced Warren Moon to play in Canada because no one would give him a shot at QB.

    But this is also why I love being born and raised a Steeler fan. The Steelers weren’t afraid to put a Black QB under center in the 70’s. They tapped into HBCU’s while the NFL ignored it. They pushed the league forward when many would prefer coaches “stay in their place” as position coaches.

    The NFL had a hiring problem. Nepotism was common and still is.. Andy Reids son had no business being on an NFL staff but its how they work the system. Could Tomlin or Dungy or Lovie have their som on staff? Maybe but I doubt it. But we see it countless times with other coaches and never ask if they are the best men for those jobs.

    NFL coaches fail at a high rate which makes the saying “the best man for the job” totally hilarious and wrong.

    Was Adam Gase the best man for the job? We saw what he did in Miami.

    Is the GB coach the best man for the job? Texans new coach?

    Just seems like some guys fail upwards which lets me know they aren’t the best, they just make some owners feel comfortable.
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Buchsbaum View Post
    You have a nice story. I became a Steeler fan in the 70's ( Dating myself ) When the Jets and Giants sucked and a 5-6 yr old kid and asked his dad who the good teams were, he said watch the playoffs for better football. I did, with him and a crowd and the Steelers won their first Super Bowl that year! Then one of his friends noticed how much I enjoyed the games and bought me the shirt for my birthday and I was hooked. And then 3 more.

    As far as you go, calling Kordell a decent QB, I disagree. He was a very flawed one, prone to turnovers, in-accurate and lousy passer in general. Wasn't he beaten out by the likes of Kent Graham and Tommy Maddox? Yep? Jim Miller too. Do you really want to review his stats with me? End of. Let's save some time, he had career QB rating of 70.7, threw more interceptions than TD's, was inaccurate, and took more sacks than he should have. That is not decent in my book. Breaking hearts in big games didn't help.



    Heck yes I think Cowher who really didn't have better options stuck with Kordell for too long. The team did. But then again if you're waking up with Mike Tomzack and Jim Miller at QB, who are you playing? We could have had Drew Brees in the 2001 draft, Chad Pennington in 2000 when it was clear we needed a QB, but nope. Liked both guys, Breese a bit better but had no feel for him being a good as he was.

    There is always hope, but change at head coach? Not a chance with Art Rooney II . He just gave Tomlin a 3 year deal. He can win just 7 game and lose 10 this year. He's sill going to be the head coach. Sure he can in theory go 6-11 and take the minority owners advice and broom him, but it will cost two years contract to broom him. I highly doubt Rooney would pay that barring an off the field incident that forced his hand.

    We agree on Rooney and his rule. But I think the Rooney's with some business decisions hurt our Steelers in the 1990's. Probably cost them at least one other super bowl appearance. They were cheap and it was a problem in the 1990's. Give me Woodson, and O'Donnell post 1995 and your talking about another ring. Not to be. Rooney's call. If you really want to know, watch Rod Woodson a football story when the topic of free agency comes up, it's one of the very few times you'll see a mild mannered Woodson become angry. Bill Cowher by the way called Rod the best player he ever coached, so you know he wanted him back.

    May goal was not to piss people off on Rooney, I respect the family in particular the chief. He's NFL Royality. His son was a good administrator for NFL. His son Art II had clown sized shoes to fill.

    -JB
    you have a funny way of showing respect to the Rooney family.

    While fans come to the Steelers from all different places.. it seems the fans who had families who followed bad teams watched the Steelers win a SB and hopped on board tend to be the ones who bash them relentlessly for not winning SB’s.

    I grew up in Pittsburgh in the 70’s but honestly, there was no real memory of the actual SB’s. I was too young to enjoy them in real time but the replays, posters, magazines and local media constantly reminded us of those glory years.

    But.. there was a 25 year gap until the next SB victory and we only had 1 head coach hired during that time.

    Nothing wrong with being frustrated but sometimes people like you act like we had 4 SB wins every decade until Tomlin arrived.
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Buchsbaum View Post
    You have a nice story. I became a Steeler fan in the 70's ( Dating myself ) When the Jets and Giants sucked and a 5-6 yr old kid and asked his dad who the good teams were, he said watch the playoffs for better football. I did, with him and a crowd and the Steelers won their first Super Bowl that year! Then one of his friends noticed how much I enjoyed the games and bought me the shirt for my birthday and I was hooked. And then 3 more.

    As far as you go, calling Kordell a decent QB, I disagree. He was a very flawed one, prone to turnovers, in-accurate and lousy passer in general. Wasn't he beaten out by the likes of Kent Graham and Tommy Maddox? Yep? Jim Miller too. Do you really want to review his stats with me? End of. Let's save some time, he had career QB rating of 70.7, threw more interceptions than TD's, was inaccurate, and took more sacks than he should have. That is not decent in my book. Breaking hearts in big games didn't help.



    Heck yes I think Cowher who really didn't have better options stuck with Kordell for too long. The team did. But then again if you're waking up with Mike Tomzack and Jim Miller at QB, who are you playing? We could have had Drew Brees in the 2001 draft, Chad Pennington in 2000 when it was clear we needed a QB, but nope. Liked both guys, Breese a bit better but had no feel for him being a good as he was.

    There is always hope, but change at head coach? Not a chance with Art Rooney II . He just gave Tomlin a 3 year deal. He can win just 7 game and lose 10 this year. He's sill going to be the head coach. Sure he can in theory go 6-11 and take the minority owners advice and broom him, but it will cost two years contract to broom him. I highly doubt Rooney would pay that barring an off the field incident that forced his hand.

    We agree on Rooney and his rule. But I think the Rooney's with some business decisions hurt our Steelers in the 1990's. Probably cost them at least one other super bowl appearance. They were cheap and it was a problem in the 1990's. Give me Woodson, and O'Donnell post 1995 and your talking about another ring. Not to be. Rooney's call. If you really want to know, watch Rod Woodson a football story when the topic of free agency comes up, it's one of the very few times you'll see a mild mannered Woodson become angry. Bill Cowher by the way called Rod the best player he ever coached, so you know he wanted him back.

    May goal was not to piss people off on Rooney, I respect the family in particular the chief. He's NFL Royality. His son was a good administrator for NFL. His son Art II had clown sized shoes to fill.

    -JB
    Decent to me, is avg. I don't think he sucked, because he won us games and got us in to the playoffs. We probably have different definitions of the word decent.

    Rod Woodson was probably the best player I've ever seen play in person, although I was at that one game where Troy picked off that one pass off of the turf.

    I was lucky enough to get tickets from a buddy of mine in school who's dad had these awesome seats in 3 Rivers. We drove out for it, and the Saints were in town. On the 45 yd line, about 20 rows up from the field, and what happens? Rod comes out of no where, and picks off this pass, and runs it back for a TD. Pick 6. Never forget it.
    6- Time Super Bowl Champions......
    IX X XIII XIV XL XLIII

    2012 MNF Executive Champion






  9. #129
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    Not sure why anyone would have a problem with the Rooney Rule. All it says is that you must interview a minority candidate, it doesnt prevent teams in anyway from hiring the best candidate.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.wizard View Post
    Not sure why anyone would have a problem with the Rooney Rule. All it says is that you must interview a minority candidate, it doesnt prevent teams in anyway from hiring the best candidate.
    If people throughout history always hired the best candidate, most of us would have never gotten a job ever.

    The one thing I kinda dislike about the Rooney Rule or similar types of rules is the stigma. I like to think Mike Tomlin got the job cause heís a good football coach that the Steelers really liked and it had nothing to do with the Rooney Rule whatsoever. I always thought it was irritating when people perceived that a minority, woman, whomever got a job due to an unfair advantage and to fulfill a quota or something similar. That thinking seems unfair to the person in the job to me.

    I think itís ok to hire who you like irregardless if they are capable. Itís a business ownerís money so they should be free to do as they like. We gotta spend most of our awake hours with people we work with. I like working with some that can help me get stuff done and I like working with others that are nice/fun/etc.and usually thatís more important imho because it makes life enjoyable.

    I understand why this stuff gets people going, But on the flip side, life is too short to worry about anything other than enjoying it to its fullest. This all ainít no thing but a chicken wing.

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