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Thread: A reason Ben does not want to retire

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    First, Rudolph's fumbles and INTs should be concern. Two things on that, first I think part of the fumbles were general pocket awareness on where pressure is coming from. This should get better with experience. On the INTs, I wouldn't be surprised with Fichnter as OC that he was asking Rudolph to run Roethlisberger's offense instead of tailoring to Rudolph.
    Checkdown Charlie? Watch the last game he started and tell me that. Those in the building DO know better. Finally, why in the world would the Steelers find any need to 'press on Ben'? He's already said he doesn't care about the money this season. If it was a bluff, they can simply cut him. Roethlisberger is holding very few cards in this negotiation.

    Finally, finally; the stigma of moving on from a decorated QB I think is a lot less these days. Manning, Brady both moved on from their drafting teams. The Steelers hopefully understand this as the new NFL world.
    Yes his ball security and interceptions are a concern. He's not throwing against big 12 defenses anymore. No I disagree, his ball security sucks and when hit he just doesn't hold on to it well at all.

    Which game if any did he win when we were in the minus or even of the turnovers? Vs Whom?

    He is check down Charlie. One game, vs. the Browns doesn't mean much. I am talking about 9 games as a starter. If he does start next year, he's going do it with a shaky OL with no running game, a decline from what he had in 2019, so I think his #'s could be worse.

    Both Brady and Manning wanted out and could leave. Ben is still under contact. Nobody wants to trade for Ben at 41 million. A fact. The Steelers won't be paying him that amount either. Ben's getting 19 million if cut, and could probably get a lower paying gig elsewhere. He has the leverage, not the Steelers.

    When Ben says money does not matter, I'm calling 100% BS. Just restructure then and take massive pay cut allowing the Steelers a lot of cap room and you can stay another year. I don't see that happening, because obviously he knows what he gets if CUT and he probably gets as a free agent couple start elsewhere. ie: More Money.

    So he wants 25 million or more. My @ss the money doesn't matter. Play for less and give your team so cap space if it doesn't.

    The crux of the matter is this. He can retire ( We should be so lucky as it clears up a lot of space on the cap ) or he can restructure and play at the amount he's worth for a year and learn a new system or the Steelers can cut him, and he'll latch on elsewhere.

    Back to Rudolph, how exactly can you tailor an offense to him? He's got an average RN at best, is not very accurate ( Even with safe passes mixed in ), has ball control issues and interception issues. He's not a running QB. He is what he is, and IMO no offensive coordinate can put in a system where he will shine. I not sure, maybe Haskins will beat him out. At least he has an arm. Not that I think he's the answer either.

    I say rip off the bandage off at this point, and draft a QB in round one or two with the intention of starting him as a rookie. We are not wining this season, so why let a 39 year old QB who be gone soon suck the life our your cap when you super bowl dreams are over and need to re-build? I'm sure Tomlin want him back to avoid a losing season with his contract above to expire. Colbert probably does not.
    Last edited by Joel Buchsbaum; 02-23-2021 at 12:24 PM.
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  2. #42
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    I work under a collective agreement and I've negotiated many contracts. While the NFL is not the same as aviation - one thing you can be sure of, it's always about money. When people say they want anything other than money, it's simply not true. Better quality of life? Pay me more and i'll have it. Better health care? Pay me more and I'll find it. Better schedule? Pay me more and I'll have the luxury of taking off as much time as I need.

    So while all the reasons above are interesting and have some merit - the simple truth is, Ben wants to come back first and foremost for 10's of millions of dollars. Everything else is secondary. No one is hiring him to be on ESPN. No one is hiring him to be a coach. He doesn't have a chain of car dealerships or restaurants. There is nothing out there that I can see that will pay him anywhere close to a fraction of what he can make with one more year.

    So winning superbowls, not ending on cleveland, boosting stats for HOF consideration are thoughts and perhaps goals - they simply pale to the goal of making another 20 million dollars.

    If the Steelers will pay - he's coming back. The only number that counts is how much.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlifter View Post
    I work under a collective agreement and I've negotiated many contracts. While the NFL is not the same as aviation - one thing you can be sure of, it's always about money. When people say they want anything other than money, it's simply not true. Better quality of life? Pay me more and i'll have it. Better health care? Pay me more and I'll find it. Better schedule? Pay me more and I'll have the luxury of taking off as much time as I need.

    So while all the reasons above are interesting and have some merit - the simple truth is, Ben wants to come back first and foremost for 10's of millions of dollars. Everything else is secondary. No one is hiring him to be on ESPN. No one is hiring him to be a coach. He doesn't have a chain of car dealerships or restaurants. There is nothing out there that I can see that will pay him anywhere close to a fraction of what he can make with one more year.

    So winning superbowls, not ending on cleveland, boosting stats for HOF consideration are thoughts and perhaps goals - they simply pale to the goal of making another 20 million dollars.

    If the Steelers will pay - he's coming back. The only number that counts is how much.
    I'm just going to assume you aren't in the category of having generational wealth in your bank account (neither am I). But when you get to that point a lot of what you are bringing up isn't even a thought to these guys. What drives a Trump?, a Brady?, a Bill Gates? Hint, it ain't money. It's ego. Roethlisberger has a quarter billion dollars in his bank account, putting him in the 1% club. Groveling for another 10% of that isn't changing his lifestyle.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlifter View Post
    I work under a collective agreement and I've negotiated many contracts. While the NFL is not the same as aviation - one thing you can be sure of, it's always about money. When people say they want anything other than money, it's simply not true. Better quality of life? Pay me more and i'll have it. Better health care? Pay me more and I'll find it. Better schedule? Pay me more and I'll have the luxury of taking off as much time as I need.

    So while all the reasons above are interesting and have some merit - the simple truth is, Ben wants to come back first and foremost for 10's of millions of dollars. Everything else is secondary. No one is hiring him to be on ESPN. No one is hiring him to be a coach. He doesn't have a chain of car dealerships or restaurants. There is nothing out there that I can see that will pay him anywhere close to a fraction of what he can make with one more year.

    So winning superbowls, not ending on cleveland, boosting stats for HOF consideration are thoughts and perhaps goals - they simply pale to the goal of making another 20 million dollars.

    If the Steelers will pay - he's coming back. The only number that counts is how much.
    100%. One thing, if Ben get cut and takes 19 million from the Steelers, he sure can start elsewhere for say 15 million million year, netting him say 19 + 15 = 34 million to play ball next season. We are NOT paying him 34 million to play next year. I'm 100% sure his agent is on the phone, and a team like the Chicago Bears might do this deal as Ben on their cap for 15 million makes sense. On our cap for 41 million, no way! We cut him and save a lot, issuing him a check for 19 million not to play for the Steelers. This is what happens when you kick the can on an older expensive player.

    Its about the money, and if Ben really didn't care he's reduces what he making big time. Like you said he doesn't own any pizza chains, or car dealerships. Thanks for the post Starlifter, I have negotiated half million dollar deals. It's always about the t's and c's. THE MONEY. Unless you catch a credit defunct sucker badly in need, and you usually find these types, to be politically correct in badly run urban areas who are oh so tardy issuing PO's and by the time you get it, the cost has gone way down. I once took pity on such an origination and threw in a free weeks of service for the heck of it, on me.
    Last edited by Joel Buchsbaum; 02-23-2021 at 03:30 PM.
    The Steelers must do well in the 2021 and 2022 draft.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    I'm just going to assume you aren't in the category of having generational wealth in your bank account (neither am I). But when you get to that point a lot of what you are bringing up isn't even a thought to these guys. What drives a Trump?, a Brady?, a Bill Gates? Hint, it ain't money. It's ego. Roethlisberger has a quarter billion dollars in his bank account, putting him in the 1% club. Groveling for another 10% of that isn't changing his lifestyle.
    I also don't have generational wealth - but I've been around countless that do. In the game of life for the folks who live in that zip code - the score is measured in dollars, not possessions or lifestyle etc. It's dollars.
    2014 MNF EXEC CHAMPION!!!

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Buchsbaum View Post
    100%. One thing, if Ben get cut and takes 19 million from the Steelers, he sure can start elsewhere for say 15 million million year, netting him say 19 + 15 = 34 million to play ball next season. We are NOT paying him 34 million to play next year. I'm 100% sure his agent is on the phone, and a team like the Chicago Bears might do this deal as Ben on their cap for 15 million makes sense. On our cap for 41 million, no way! We cut him and save a lot, issuing him a check for 19 million not to play for the Steelers. This is what happens when you kick the can on an older expensive player.

    Its about the money, and if Ben really didn't care he's reduces what he making big time. Like you said he doesn't own any pizza chains, or car dealerships. Thanks for the post Starlifter, I have negotiated half million dollar deals. It's always about the t's and c's. THE MONEY. Unless you catch a credit defunct sucker badly in need, and you usually find these types, to be politically correct in badly run urban areas who are oh so tardy issuing PO's and by the time you get it, the cost has gone way down. I once took pity on such an origination and threw in a free weeks of service for the heck of it, on me.
    Joel.

    I think this has been said to you multiple times, but it seems like you keep confusing cap hit with salary (and the $21 in dead money we'll get either way with the $19M he's scheduled to earn).

    The $21M cap hit we get with or without Ben is a consequence of his original signing bonus and us converting as much of his salary last year as we could into signing bonus to lower his cap hit and keep guys like Bud and Heyward.

    He is scheduled to make $19M this season that is a combination of salary ($4M) and roster bonus ($15M). This $19M in pay is about $7M less than the $26M in pay he earned last year.

    If he gets cut (or retires) before the new league year (mid-March), he will earn $0 this year. But his cap hit will still be $21M (because we can't erase the cap hit we already kicked down the road).If he gets cut (or retires) after the new league year but before we play any games, he would get the roster bonus (per terms in his contract) $15M but not the salary. In this case, his cap hit would be $36M. This scenario absolutely will not happen because the team would cut him if he can't decide by the new league year.If he plays out the deal, he would get the salary and the roster bonus $19M. In this case, his cap hit would be $41M (because of some rounding stuff). This scenario is unlikely IMO because it screws the whole cap and we lose too much of the team.

    If we keep him, I think we do the maximum dummy year extension. This is kind of like a restructure, but we have to extend him because we currently don't have any road to kick the can down. Here, we give him a 4 year extension (so that the contract is 5 years total). That's the longest you can amortize (split up) the cap hit. Then, he takes a league min salary this year and we turn the rest of the $19M he's owed into signing bonus that gets split up evenly across the rest of the contract. This year's cap hit then goes from $21M (if cut) to something like $25M. The downside of this is that we push something like $15M into next year's cap (because all the cap hit we kick down the road hits if he retires, which is the only way he does this deal IMO. I think this is the most likely scenario, even though I'd like for him to retire.

    Maybe he takes an actual pay cut and the extension looks something like the max dummy year contract, but he makes something less than $19M this year. I think this is pretty unlikely, but you never know. He'd have to take a very large pay cut for this to make much of a difference this year (or next year really). And I just don't think that he'd do that.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlifter View Post
    I also don't have generational wealth - but I've been around countless that do. In the game of life for the folks who live in that zip code - the score is measured in dollars, not possessions or lifestyle etc. It's dollars.
    I don't know anyone who has earned as much as Ben (probably not even in his first contract). Although I do know a few people that I think have enough commas / digits in their net worth to not be working for money any more. My guess is that most people like this are "Millionaire Next Door" types that don't flaunt it. That's certainly true for the one couple that I am most confident is in this category.

    But none of them are dramatically shortening their life and health spans by continuing to work like NFL football players probably are.

    Personally, I'm working on that path and I could see myself continuing to do the parts of my job I really like once I have enough keep living on a "safe withdrawal rate" of ~ 3.5% (which doesn't take much longer to hit than a 4% withdrawal rate if you get average returns for a year or two and have the savings rate you'd probably need to get to that point anyway). But I think if someone pushed me toward doing something I really didn't want to do at that point, I'd be out the door by the end of the day. That's the beauty of being financially independent IMO.

    If none of this makes sense, try reading:
    JL Collins Stock Series: https://jlcollinsnh.com/stock-series/
    Something about the 4% safe withdrawal rate and how much is enough: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s...swr-method.asp
    How savings rates impact time to retirement (lots of assumptions in this one): e.g. https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012...ly-retirement/

    And maybe listen to these two Freakonomics episodes:
    https://freakonomics.com/podcast/stupidest-money/
    https://freakonomics.com/podcast/eve...ey-afraid-ask/
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 02-23-2021 at 04:03 PM.

  8. #48
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    Ben's future is in Pittsburgh. He has made it his home. His wife's family is from western PA. He will do whatever it takes to play this year even play for less$. The goodwill he will get from doing that will be worth more $ and just plain feel good for him and his family going forward. He's got enough money from football. He now has to plan for his future in the Burg. He's not stupid this is how he's thinking.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    From the Depot:

    Ben Roethlisberger won’t be bad enough to have them win four or five games. He’ll never be good enough the rest of his career to have them win 10 or 11 games from here on out, I don’t think. So their best chance, it’s probably about a push [between him and Rudolph], I would think.

    Here’s the thing. We found this out from day one when they drafted Mason Rudolph. The opinion with Mason Rudolph within the walls of that building at the South Side facility is vastly different than the court of public opinion in Pittsburgh.

    Every chance that they get, no matter who it is, whether it’s Mike Tomlin, whether it’s Kevin Colbert, whether it’s Art II, they seem to have a much higher opinion of Mason Rudolph than the general public does in Pittsburgh, and they’re very willing to tell it to us.
    Do not agree.

    If they were really high on Mason, Haskins is not a Steeler

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by "BuzzNuter" View Post
    Ben's future is in Pittsburgh. He has made it his home. His wife's family is from western PA. He will do whatever it takes to play this year even play for less$. The goodwill he will get from doing that will be worth more $ and just plain feel good for him and his family going forward. He's got enough money from football. He now has to plan for his future in the Burg. He's not stupid this is how he's thinking.
    What you say here makes sense, Cr...

    I just don't know if anybody would take the extreme pay cut required to make it happen.

    How much do you think he play for on top of the guaranteed dough he already has?

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