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Thread: Are the Steelers really in the market for a quarterback in the first round?

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteel View Post
    Factoidness

    Part of the difficulty in analyzing North Dakota State quarterback Trey Lance:

    • He has played one football games in the last 414 days.

    • That game, maybe the worst of his college career, was a 39-28 home victory over Central Arkansas last Oct. 2. Lance and the Bison trailed in the fourth quarter, and he completed just 15 of 30 passes, with the first interception of his college career, and a lost fumble. (Central Arkansas went on to lose to Eastern Kentucky last season.)

    I mention this because one NFL coach whose team is in the market for a quarterback this offseason told me the other day Lance scares him. “He’s a guy we all needed to see more of, for a lot of reasons,” this coach said. I won’t be surprised if Lance is passed by Mac Jones in the first round come April.

    https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ia-peter-king/
    I say thanks, but no thanks.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    You think they'll give him new money that gets paid this year?

    That would be absolutely crazy IMO.

    I think he'll get the $19 in his contract, which I already think is a bad ideal.

    I'll be very disappointed if he gets additional money this season.

    Give him whatever he wants in future salary or roster bonuses past this season. He's not going to see any of that money (I hope). All it does is drive up the commission he has to pay his agent.
    If he comes back, yes. He will restrucure and make more than 19 million a year. At this point, I would part ways with Ben.
    Realistic rebuild mock draft 3-29-2021.Plan to spend $110,094,402 in cap space in 2022 and have 4 comp picks + what we have in the 2022 draft. We will be back hopefully with better coaching.

    1) RB Najee Harris - A 3 down back, makes em; miss, runs then over, Gets outside, blocks like a top FB
    2 ) LT Dillon Radunz
    3 ) CB Paulson Adebo -
    4a ) C Drake Jackson-
    4b ) TE Tommy Temble
    6) G / C Cole Van Lanen -
    7a ) S Darmr Hamln -
    7b ) ILB Erroll Thompson

  3. #83
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    On Draft Qb's here how I see them.

    1. Lawrence - Simply stated there is not signal thing he does anywhere close to average. He's tall, he can run, he has a rocket arm, he's great deep, clean off the field, etc..

    2 . Jones - And he might have a better NFL career than Lawrence, as he won't be going to a terrible team. Compared to Brady lately which I agree on but don't want to admit much.

    3 . Wilson - I am not sold. Competition played matters, and the thin air he plays in helps his arm, which includes too many floating passes.

    Above the line = top ten picks

    ---------------------

    4. Fields - I think he's the worst passer listed of the top 4. Just how fast is he, and who picks him will matter a lot. If he shows 4.5 speed and I might move him up a spot.
    5. Lance - This is all based on upside as he isn't ready. If we keep Ben 2 years, this could very well be our pick. That would take balls.

    Above this line = top 15-25 picks

    ---------------------------

    Upper round two

    6. Trask. - His workouts matter. Forget this 90% film jargon which I think applies less than ever today. Trask is a SEC battle tested passer. If he prove the arm is good and runs say a 4.85, and does reasonably well on agility drills I'm interested.

    Lower round two, or round three

    7. Kellen Mond - Mond helped himself in the senior bowl. There is some upside to him but the production level is lacking. Needs to go to a good OC, which we do not qualify as.
    Realistic rebuild mock draft 3-29-2021.Plan to spend $110,094,402 in cap space in 2022 and have 4 comp picks + what we have in the 2022 draft. We will be back hopefully with better coaching.

    1) RB Najee Harris - A 3 down back, makes em; miss, runs then over, Gets outside, blocks like a top FB
    2 ) LT Dillon Radunz
    3 ) CB Paulson Adebo -
    4a ) C Drake Jackson-
    4b ) TE Tommy Temble
    6) G / C Cole Van Lanen -
    7a ) S Darmr Hamln -
    7b ) ILB Erroll Thompson

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Your right. But Rooney Jr. is not concerned about ceilings for this team. He’s concerned about getting enough wins to keep the majority of the base satisfied. 8 regular season wins will keep the majority of the fan base happy , keep the seats filled at the stadium and keep them buying gear. Just a business to him.
    once again I underestimated you.

    just when I think you can't possibly get any stupider you come up with a gem like this.

    what an ignorant thing to write.

    like Mr Wizard so eloquently put it, how in the hell would you know?
    Last edited by hawaiiansteel; 03-01-2021 at 03:21 PM.
    1.24 Najee Harris RB Alabama / Travis Etienne RB Clemson
    2.55 Creed Humphrey C Oklahoma / Landon Dickerson C Alabama / Quinn Meinerz C Wisconsin-Whitewater
    3.87 Spencer Brown OT N Iowa / James Hudson OT Cincinnati / Stone Forsythe OT Florida
    4.128 Robert Rochell CB Central Arkansas / Kary Vincent Jr CB LSU
    4.140 Patrick Jones II OLB Pitt
    6.216 Tre' McKitty TE Georgia

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Buchsbaum View Post
    If he comes back, yes. He will restrucure and make more than 19 million a year. At this point, I would part ways with Ben.
    I really, really hope you're wrong.

    But maybe you and I are not talking about the same thing.

    Let's say Ben signs a 3 year extension with a total value of $90M.

    Year 1: $1.5M salary, $17.5M signing bonus
    Year 2: $35.5M salary, $0M roster bonus (voidable by player)
    Year 3: $20.5M salary, $15M roster bonus (voidable by player)

    This would get reported as him earning $30/year. And many would be up in arms about how terrible it is.

    But if he only pays 1 year, then it's the same as:
    Year 1: $1.5M salary, $17.5M signing bonus
    Year 2: $1.5M salary, $0M roster bonus (voidable by player)
    Year 3: $1.5M salary, $0M roster bonus (voidable by player)

    Because he'll never see years 2 and 3.

    The first structure just protects his earning potential if he does end up playing more than 1 year. I think that's what making the contract voidable by the player does too. The player can say: "I won the SB last year and I'm worth more than my contract. Increase my salary or I'll cancel the contract and sign for what the market will bear".

    Whenever this deal gets announced, it will be very important that we focus on (1) the cash he will earn in the first year in combined salary and signing bonus, and (2) how much dead money gets pushed to future years. The total value (and the average value) of the contract will not be very important.

    Dead money in future years can be calculated as:

    [signing bonus] * [N-1] / [N]

    Where N is the length of the contract.

    In the example above (3 year contract with $17.5M SB), the calculation is:

    [$17.5M] * [2] / [3] = $11.7M

    The money in years 2 and 3 probably doesn't matter because he probably won't play beyond year 1. I would like to see those years be mostly salary (at market level) and be voidable by the player. Then if Ben goes quietly into retirement, he can choose to reduce his salary to the minimum and retire on June 2 to spread the dead money over 2 years (like Brees is doing this year).
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 03-01-2021 at 03:15 PM.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    I really, really hope you're wrong.

    But maybe you and I are not talking about the same thing.

    Let's say Ben signs a 3 year extension with a total value of $90M.

    Year 1: $1.5M salary, $17.5M signing bonus
    Year 2: $35.5M salary, $0M roster bonus (voidable by player)
    Year 3: $20.5M salary, $15M roster bonus (voidable by player)

    This would get reported as him earning $30/year. And many would be up in arms about how terrible it is.

    But if he only pays 1 year, then it's the same as:
    Year 1: $1.5M salary, $17.5M signing bonus
    Year 2: $1.5M salary, $0M roster bonus (voidable by player)
    Year 3: $1.5M salary, $0M roster bonus (voidable by player)

    Because he'll never see years 2 and 3.

    The first structure just protects his earning potential if he does end up playing more than 1 year. I think that's what making the contract voidable by the player does too. The player can say: "I won the SB last year and I'm worth more than my contract. Increase my salary or I'll cancel the contract and sign for what the market will bear".

    Whenever this deal gets announced, it will be very important that we focus on (1) the cash he will earn in the first year in combined salary and signing bonus, and (2) how much dead money gets pushed to future years. The total value (and the average value) of the contract will not be very important.

    Dead money in future years can be calculated as:

    [signing bonus] * [N-1] / [N]

    Where N is the length of the contract.

    In the example above (3 year contract with $17.5M SB), the calculation is:

    [$17.5M] * [2] / [3] = $11.7M

    The money in years 2 and 3 probably doesn't matter because he probably won't play beyond year 1. I would like to see those years be mostly salary (at market level) and be voidable by the player. Then if Ben goes quietly into retirement, he can choose to reduce his salary to the minimum and retire on June 2 to spread the dead money over 2 years (like Brees is doing this year).
    Why a roster bonus of $0 in yrs 2 and 3? If the Steelers can cut him after this season, then they can put in any $ amount as a roster bonus without danger of having to pay it as long as they intend to cut him. What am I missing?

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteel View Post
    once again I underestimated you.

    just when I think you can't possibly get any stupider you come up with a gem like this.

    what an ignorant thing to write.

    like Mr Wizard so eloquently put it, how in the hell would you know?
    Iím pretty sure SM is just trolling at this
    point.

    No one can be this ignorant and clueless when it comes to this franchise.. lol
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Buchsbaum View Post
    Yeah, but Ben is likely coming back for 26 , not 19 million. We have not seen any details yet. Who knows how much it could cost to cut him next year if extended.

    Essentially if we don't win a playoff game bringing back Ben its a waste of time. My point a rookie 1st or 2nd round pick can play for a fraction of what Ben is making now and the Steelers need to move on.
    you are not taking the whole picture into account.

    with ben here for 2021, his cap hit will likely be $26M or so

    if he is not here for 2021, his dead hit is still $19m (only a $7 million difference)

    with a rookie QB playing instead of ben... the position will take up
    $19M dead cap from ben and whatever the rookie cap hit is. for arguments sake, let's say it $5M.
    that total cap for the new QB and cutting ben is $24M for 2021.
    not a fraction at all

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    I’m pretty sure SM is just trolling at this point.

    No one can be this ignorant and clueless when it comes to this franchise.. lol
    don't underestimate Steel Maniac, he can be more ignorant and clueless than you could ever imagine possible.
    1.24 Najee Harris RB Alabama / Travis Etienne RB Clemson
    2.55 Creed Humphrey C Oklahoma / Landon Dickerson C Alabama / Quinn Meinerz C Wisconsin-Whitewater
    3.87 Spencer Brown OT N Iowa / James Hudson OT Cincinnati / Stone Forsythe OT Florida
    4.128 Robert Rochell CB Central Arkansas / Kary Vincent Jr CB LSU
    4.140 Patrick Jones II OLB Pitt
    6.216 Tre' McKitty TE Georgia

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Why a roster bonus of $0 in yrs 2 and 3? If the Steelers can cut him after this season, then they can put in any $ amount as a roster bonus without danger of having to pay it as long as they intend to cut him. What am I missing?
    Here's my reasoning here.

    No roster bonus in year 2 I think makes it easier to do what Brees did this year.

    I think the way we do roster bonuses is to have them due at the beginning of the league year. But if we want Ben to retire June 2 (to spread out the dead money), we wouldn't want to give him a roster bonus in March.

    This way you're only having the player lower his salary to the minimum in March, then retire in June.

    But I don't think it really matters as long as the player is OK with getting rid of the roster bonus and salary early enough that they don't get paid out.

    It also doesn't matter if he got cut right after the season and we just took all the dead money in one year (which I'd probably rather do).

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