2 Steelers tested positive for CV

[Northern_Blitz]

I was backing Yang as well, he was younger with some great ideas that would of really made a difference.

I would have voted Yang out of all the democrats even though I think his UBI plan was totally unworkable.

Seemed smart, reasonable, and didn't demonize people that didn't disagree with him. Also not old enough to be on social security for ~ a decade.

Also, I have a bias toward people who aren't career politicians (despite the current administration).

[Mr.wizard]

I would have voted Yang out of all the democrats even though I think his UBI plan was totally unworkable.

Seemed smart, reasonable, and didn't demonize people that didn't disagree with him. Also not old enough to be on social security for ~ a decade.

Also, I have a bias toward people who aren't career politicians (despite the current administration).

UBI plan wasn't perfect but I think it was workable and I think UBI is the direction we need to go. Restoring the middle class, creating an environment where small businesses can compete, and lifting people out of poverty will never happen if we have to rely on the private sector. Have to find a way to put more money into more peoples pockets, it's the only way an economy can grow.

[Northern_Blitz]

UBI plan wasn't perfect but I think it was workable and I think UBI is the direction we need to go. Restoring the middle class, creating an environment where small businesses can compete, and lifting people out of poverty will never happen if we have to rely on the private sector. Have to find a way to put more money into more peoples pockets, it's the only way an economy can grow.

In spirit I don't disagree, but I don't think the US is in a position to double the budget.

I appreciate that Yang costed it out instead of just promising it. He was willing to have an honest discussion about it. Which is maybe at least part of the reason why he didn't make it through the process.

[Mr.wizard]

In spirit I don't disagree, but I don't think the US is in a position to double the budget.

I appreciate that Yang costed it out instead of just promising it. He was willing to have an honest discussion about it. Which is maybe at least part of the reason why he didn't make it through the process.

Here is the thing that has always bothered me and this always comes off sounding a little crazy. I dont understand how money something that has no intrinsic value and something that we can create more of with the push of a button is the one thing that we can never figure out how to get more of in order to cure major social ills around the world.

[flippy]

Here is the thing that has always bothered me and this always comes off sounding a little crazy. I dont understand how money something that has no intrinsic value and something that we can create more of with the push of a button is the one thing that we can never figure out how to get more of in order to cure major social ills around the world.

I do think people are coming around on money being available even for the little guy.

When the banks/wall street need money, you never hear where are we going to find the money. It’s always available.

It’s good to see people warming up to the idea of UBI.

Money is the cure for lack of money. Unfortunately, politicians, the media, and the rich have tried to pretend it’s more complex to maintain their control.

Its a shame that 99% of government decisions have always been about protecting the vested interests of the rich. That’s the real foundation of our country and the real purpose of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution.

It was never about our freedom. That’s a spin to keep us in line.

[Northern_Blitz]

Here is the thing that has always bothered me and this always comes off sounding a little crazy. I dont understand how money something that has no intrinsic value and something that we can create more of with the push of a button is the one thing that we can never figure out how to get more of in order to cure major social ills around the world.

Money does have intrinsic value.

It represents labor you've performed to the benefit of someone else in society.

My understanding is that we aren't creating money right now (although we have in the past... This should devalue the currency that was in circulation before printing I think). I believe the US paid for the current relief packages through bonds.

In that case, we are borrowing against our future labor... Or that of future generations.

My understanding is that government bonds are sold at auction where the low bidder (in interest rate) wins.

When China stops buying US debt, I think the rate will spike.

Then the carrying costs will be bad (they are still not great but rates are very low).

Then we probably have 3 choices (I think): eat the pain and reduce spending, default and tank the dollar so that creditors get hosed because US dollars aren't worth as much (this is what Greece couldn't do because they didn't have monetary control because the rate on the Euro is controlled outside of any one country); or not pay the debts which maybe leads to war.

Maybe there are other options I can't think of.

So, the best way to get money to "the little guy" is growth in GDP (and probably productivity too). But I think productivity growth has been stagnant for a long time and people don't understand why.

Note: I'm an engineer who took some economics / finance classes so I'm no where near an expert in this stuff.

[Northern_Blitz]

Here is the thing that has always bothered me and this always comes off sounding a little crazy. I dont understand how money something that has no intrinsic value and something that we can create more of with the push of a button is the one thing that we can never figure out how to get more of in order to cure major social ills around the world.

And while I think getting people more money would be helpful, I think the bigger problem is that jobs have become super specialized and process driven that employees often feel like replaceable carbon units and not something like craftsmen that can take pride in what they do... But maybe that's just rhetoric.

I'm hoping that part of the response to the virus is that jobs become more location independent and more people can move out of cities with crushing living expenses. I think that would help a lot too. I've said this before (maybe in this thread) but moving away from Toronto was amazing for my families quality of life.

[Mr.wizard]

Money does have intrinsic value.

It represents labor you've performed to the benefit of someone else in society.

My understanding is that we aren't creating money right now (although we have in the past... This should devalue the currency that was in circulation before printing I think). I believe the US paid for the current relief packages through bonds.

In that case, we are borrowing against our future labor... Or that of future generations.

My understanding is that government bonds are sold at auction where the low bidder (in interest rate) wins.

When China stops buying US debt, I think the rate will spike.

Then the carrying costs will be bad (they are still not great but rates are very low).

Then we probably have 3 choices (I think): eat the pain and reduce spending, default and tank the dollar so that creditors get hosed because US dollars aren't worth as much (this is what Greece couldn't do because they didn't have monetary control because the rate on the Euro is controlled outside of any one country); or not pay the debts which maybe leads to war.

Maybe there are other options I can't think of.

So, the best way to get money to "the little guy" is growth in GDP (and probably productivity too). But I think productivity growth has been stagnant for a long time and people don't understand why.

Note: I'm an engineer who took some economics / finance classes so I'm no where near an expert in this stuff.

No money doesn't have intrinsic value, it has whatever value we give it, that's my point. The value of money only matters in the framework of the economy that we created, we have the power to change it. There is no excuse for letting people go hungry, homeless, or without healthcare or the ability to retire.

[Mr.wizard]

And while I think getting people more money would be helpful, I think the bigger problem is that jobs have become super specialized and process driven that employees often feel like replaceable carbon units and not something like craftsmen that can take pride in what they do... But maybe that's just rhetoric.

I'm hoping that part of the response to the virus is that jobs become more location independent and more people can move out of cities with crushing living expenses. I think that would help a lot too. I've said this before (maybe in this thread) but moving away from Toronto was amazing for my families quality of life.

That is just rhetoric the problem is not that people need to take more pride in their work or that people aren't inspired. People are working harder than ever and producing profits at record levels, they just aren't being rewarded, profits are being pocketed or paid out to shareholders, seems strange to blame the short comings of the economic system on the workers who are being exploited in the system.

[Captain Lemming]

Here is the thing that has always bothered me and this always comes off sounding a little crazy. I dont understand how money something that has no intrinsic value and something that we can create more of with the push of a button is the one thing that we can never figure out how to get more of in order to cure major social ills around the world.

If you print gobs of money without a measured pace the currency will lose value. The result would be run away inflation. You will have more money but things cost more, so you gain nothing.

Savings have less buying power and fixed incomes are even harder to survive on.