Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17

Thread: In Search of Greatness

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    In Search of Greatness

    "In Search of Greatness" - pretty interesting documentary if you get Hulu or Vudu. Interviews with Gretsky, Pele, and Jerry Rice. Cameos with Jordan, Ali, and others.

    Some tidbits:
    • The sports industry has analytics backwards; they are using analytics to make decisions rather than watching film of players playing. This in effect, leaves decisionmaking to algorithms rather than personnel who are experts in their evaluations. It also can lead to lazy evaluations by personnel staff.


    • "If I had to do the combine today, I would never have been drafted based on my numbers" - Jerry Rice


    • "A coach can only do so much, then it's up to the players and team" - Jerry Rice


    • "Kids today are too regimented, slotted too soon."


    • "I can remember every play of every game I played" (narrator 'how is this possible?'). "Because I had a passion for the game that drove me..."- Wayne Gretsky


    • There were comments from Gretsky about playing at small schools before turning pro, and how that drove him even harder to succeed. Felt that some players from big schools tend to coast.


    • Talked about how the great ones think outside the box, innovate their play around what they do best, or minimize their shortcomings. Example was Gretsky learning to play behind the net, using it as a decoy.


    here's a writeup:

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/in_search_of_greatness
    Last edited by NorthCoast; 05-20-2020 at 09:13 PM.

  2. #2
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post

    • "If I had to do the combine today, I would never have been drafted based on my numbers" - Jerry Rice
    These guys underestimate the value of metrics.

    For example based on one "metric" as he says, I would not draft Jerry Rice TODAY.

    Sure his tape says awesome.

    But I can't get over a metric that says "fail".

    That metric?
    Dude is over 60.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 05-20-2020 at 09:43 PM.

  3. #3
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    These guys underestimate the value of metrics.

    For example based on one "metric" as he says, I would not draft Jerry Rice TODAY.

    Sure his tape says awesome.

    But I can't get over a metric that says "fail".

    That metric?
    Dude is over 60.
    I'm pretty sure a guy known for working as hard at Rice did would do well at the combine. Like many very good players, he'd find a trainer that specializes in optimizing for specific events.

    That's why I don't get too bent out of shape about combine results.

    I don't know if anyone read Tim Ferriss's 4 Hour Body, but one of the chapters talks about him training with Joe DeFranco (who he describes as "Yoda of the Combine). In two days he increased his vertical by 3" and his 40 by 0.33 seconds. Not because he was any faster of more explosive, but because he learned how to game the tests.
    Talent vs coaching: [url]www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/48851-Poll-Question-for-Everyone/page14[/url]

    Steelers vs. Other Teams with good QBs: ... /47985-Steelers-most-successful-failure/page5

    Tomlin playoff record vs. expectations (Cowher pg24): ... /48742-Rooney-Brown-meeting/page22

    Tomlin's Las year: ... 49599-Just-sayin?p=778284#post778284

    Maniac Talent>Coaching: ...49632-Trades?p=779158#post779158

  4. #4
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    I'm pretty sure a guy known for working as hard at Rice did would do well at the combine. Like many very good players, he'd find a trainer that specializes in optimizing for specific events.

    That's why I don't get too bent out of shape about combine results.

    I don't know if anyone read Tim Ferriss's 4 Hour Body, but one of the chapters talks about him training with Joe DeFranco (who he describes as "Yoda of the Combine). In two days he increased his vertical by 3" and his 40 by 0.33 seconds. Not because he was any faster of more explosive, but because he learned how to game the tests.
    Interesting find NB.... Rice commented he was not particularly fast in a sprint, but he knew he was 'football fast' and that's what counts.

  5. #5
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Interesting find NB.... Rice commented he was not particularly fast in a sprint, but he knew he was 'football fast' and that's what counts.
    I agree that's what counts. Especially consistent speed over time.

    I played Rugby when I was younger and more fit, and our mantra was always that how fast you are at the end of the game was often the difference between winning and losing.

    I wonder what prospects would look like if they added an endurance component to the combine. Would this help separate guys that time fast vs. look fast in pads?

    If I was running the combine, I think I'd also want speed and agility drills done in pads.

    Most importantly, I'd want combine type data on players in game shape. Lots of guys change their body composition for the combine to affect results. But how does their timed speed change when they get back to playing weight?
    Talent vs coaching: [url]www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/48851-Poll-Question-for-Everyone/page14[/url]

    Steelers vs. Other Teams with good QBs: ... /47985-Steelers-most-successful-failure/page5

    Tomlin playoff record vs. expectations (Cowher pg24): ... /48742-Rooney-Brown-meeting/page22

    Tomlin's Las year: ... 49599-Just-sayin?p=778284#post778284

    Maniac Talent>Coaching: ...49632-Trades?p=779158#post779158

  6. #6
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    I'm pretty sure a guy known for working as hard at Rice did would do well at the combine. Like many very good players, he'd find a trainer that specializes in optimizing for specific events.

    That's why I don't get too bent out of shape about combine results.

    I don't know if anyone read Tim Ferriss's 4 Hour Body, but one of the chapters talks about him training with Joe DeFranco (who he describes as "Yoda of the Combine). In two days he increased his vertical by 3" and his 40 by 0.33 seconds. Not because he was any faster of more explosive, but because he learned how to game the tests.
    You replied to my comment with a "reasoned" answer.
    You did see what I was saying right.

  7. #7
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    You replied to my comment with a "reasoned" answer.
    You did see what I was saying right.
    I was agreeing with you (or at least I thought I was).
    Talent vs coaching: [url]www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/48851-Poll-Question-for-Everyone/page14[/url]

    Steelers vs. Other Teams with good QBs: ... /47985-Steelers-most-successful-failure/page5

    Tomlin playoff record vs. expectations (Cowher pg24): ... /48742-Rooney-Brown-meeting/page22

    Tomlin's Las year: ... 49599-Just-sayin?p=778284#post778284

    Maniac Talent>Coaching: ...49632-Trades?p=779158#post779158

  8. #8
    Pro Bowler

    User Info Menu

    I think JuJu is a prime example of not being ďfastĒ but still having tape and other metrics to show he was a good WR.

    I was a fan of him simply because I remembered his combat catches vs Penn State in the Rose Bowl.

    A lot of people hated the pick simply due to his 40 time.

    not to derail the thread but it reminds me of record sales/sound scan numbers being used to judge how good an album is vs actually listening to it to see if you like it. The Roots manager once ranted about how kids used to listen to albums to see if they were good. Now you have 13 year old kids asking how much did it sell the first week to determine if itís a good album.

    i think depending on skill position, especially WRís.. one metric is giving way more importance. WRís rarely run in a straight line yet itís the number one metric used when discussing if a pick is good or not.
    Last edited by feltdizz; 05-21-2020 at 10:18 AM.
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


  9. #9
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    I think JuJu is a prime example of not being “fast” but still having tape and other metrics to show he was a good WR.

    I was a fan of him simply because I remembered his combat catches vs Penn State in the Rose Bowl.

    A lot of people hated the pick simply due to his 40 time.

    not to derail the thread but it reminds me of record sales/sound scan numbers being used to judge how good an album is vs actually listening to it to see if you like it. The Roots manager once ranted about how kids used to listen to albums to see if they were good. Now you have 13 year old kids asking how much did it sell the first week to determine if it’s a good album.

    i think depending on skill position, especially WR’s.. one metric is giving way more importance. WR’s rarely run in a straight line yet it’s the number one metric used when discussing if a pick is good or not.
    It wasn't just 40 time. Some of us wanted to draft move up just a couple of spots and draft Obi Melifonwu.

    We could have had him and Edmonds and never even have to go get Minka...wait

    nevermind

    Can someone tell me how do I delete a post again

  10. #10
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    It wasn't just 40 time. Some of us wanted to draft move up just a couple of spots and draft Obi Melifonwu.

    We could have had him and Edmonds and never even have to go get Minka...wait

    nevermind

    Can someone tell me how do I delete a post again
    Yes; I see your point. It's not all about the numbers; the "eye ball" test should have more importance in evaluating weather a guy can play or not.
    From the 2010-2019 season, (A 9 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks.
    Dolphin fans in the 90ís who wanted to hold on to Don Shula for what he did in the 70ís...

    Are the same as Steeler fans (of 2020 ) holding on to Tomlin for what he did in 2008.

    [url]http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/50121-A-Positive-View-of-they-Draft/page17[/url]

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •