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Thread: Tomlin ‘Excited’ About CB Justin Layne

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Your right that the best CB in the draft wouldn't probably last until 11; when you consider that someone like C.J. Henderson (arguably the second best CB in the draft ) went at # 9. But if we had to pay a price for an Elite cornerback, the price through the draft would probably be preferable compared to say if we wanted Jalen Ramsey right now if he were a free agent. I guess what I'm probing is while we were in our best window of time through the 2014-2018 period, why wouldn't we do what it takes to get an elite cornerback and make a Super Bowl. Maybe the notion of us paying top dollar for an Elite cornerback isn't in the salary structure of the organization. And if that is so, then that is something that needs to be re-evaluated because I would have paid Gilmore (of the Patriots) top dollar if given the opportunity.

    A whole lot of these "this is how we've always done it " notions need to be re-evaluated in the light of the modern day game. Our cornerback play at this second is okay with Nelson & Hadden but Hadden is no spring chicken and soon we will have to find an adequate replacement. I think Captain Lemmings hit it on the head when he said only the Patriots have seemed to figure it out on what positions to spend big dollars on and what positions not to spend big dollars on in the totality of a team.
    It's "moneyball" NFL style. The Pats have it figured out.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    It's "moneyball" NFL style. The Pats have it figured out.
    They certainly did (except can't draft WRs to save their lives, even their 1st and 2nd rounders fail).

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Felt,

    We were already making the playoffs as well; Just like the Patriots. For years, it was our play at cornerback which hurt us in that period. I wasn't talking about other teams. I was referring specifically to us and us alone. We were making the playoffs on the reg. We needed secondary help.
    it was our CB, safeties, OLB, ILB and DL.

    pick any playoff loss and I can point to a unit that didn’t get it done.

    and the other primary culprit in all of our playoff losses?

    Turnovers on offense.
    Tomlin’s coming back so what can you do?


  4. #114
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    List of the 24 top DBs of all time. A little old, nothing later than Sherman.

    Those without championships are in red. I count 3 of the 24.

    In your mind....do that with the running back position. Not even close.

    Darren Sharper, Safety
    Green Bay 1997-2004; Minnesota 2005-08, New Orleans 2009-10

    2-time first-team All-Pro, 5-time Pro Bowler

    Super Bowl XLIV champion (Saints)

    Key stats: 942 tackles, 63 INTs, 11 INTs returned for TDs


    23. Dick LeBeau, Cornerback
    Detroit 1959-72

    3-time Pro Bowler

    Key stats: 62 INTs, 9 fumble recoveries




    22. Darren Woodson, Safety
    Dallas 1992-2004

    3-time All-Pro, 5-time Pro Bowler

    Super Bowl XXVII, XXVIII, XXX champion

    Key stats: 1,350 tackles, 23 INTs, 11 sacks


    21. Lester Hayes, Cornerback
    Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders 1977-86

    First-team All-Pro (1980), 5-time Pro Bowler

    Super Bowl XV, XVIII champion

    Key stat: 39 INTs

    20. Richard Sherman, Cornerback
    Seattle 2011-17, San Francisco 2018-Present

    3-time first-team All-Pro, 5-time Pro Bowler

    Super Bowl XLVIII champion (Seahawks)

    Key stats: 466 tackles, 35 INTs, 5 forced fumbles


    19. Ty Law, Cornerback
    New England 1995-2004; New York Jets 2005, ‘08; Kansas City 2006-07; Denver 2009

    Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 2019

    2-time All-Pro, 5-time Pro Bowler

    Super Bowl XXXVI, XXXVIII, XXXIX Champion (Patriots)

    Key stats: 449 tackles, 53 INTs
    Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 2019

    18. Mel Renfro, Cornerback
    Dallas 1964-77

    5-time All-Pro, 10-time Pro Bowler

    Super Bowl VI, XII champion

    Key stat: 52 INTs

    Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 1996


    17. Darrelle Revis, Cornerback
    New York Jets 2007-12, ‘15-16; Tampa Bay 2013; New England 2014, Kansas City Chiefs 2017

    4-time first-team All-Pro, 7-time Pro Bowler

    Super Bowl XLIX champion (Patriots)

    Key stats: 411 tackles, 29 INTs


    16. Troy Polamalu, Safety
    Pittsburgh 2003-14

    4-time first-team All-Pro, 8-time Pro Bowler

    Super Bowl XL, XLIII champion

    Key stats: 770 tackles, 12 sacks, 32 INTs, 14 forced fumbles

    ​Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 2020


    15. Steve Atwater, Safety
    Denver 1989-98; New York Jets 1999

    2-time first-team All-Pro, 8-time Pro Bowler

    Super Bowl XXXII, XXXIII champion (Broncos)

    Key stats: 1,180 tackles, 24 INTs

    Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 2020



    14. Emlen Tunnell, Cornerback
    New York Giants 1948-58; Green Bay 1959-61

    8-time All-Pro, 9-time Pro Bowler

    2-time NFL champion (’56, ‘61)

    Key stat: 79 INTs

    Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 1967

    NFL 100 All-Time Team (2019)



    13. Mike Haynes, Cornerback
    New England 1976-82; Los Angeles Raiders 1983-89

    9-time Pro Bowler

    Super Bowl XVIII champion (Raiders)

    Key stat: 46 INTs

    NFL 75th Anniversary Team

    Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 1997
    NFL 100 All-Time Team (2019)



    12. Charles Woodson, Cornerback/Safety
    Oakland Raiders 1998-2005, ‘13-15; Green Bay 2006-12

    4-time first-team All-Pro, 9-time Pro Bowler

    Super Bowl XLV champion (Packers)

    Key stats: 1,003 tackles, 20 sacks, 65 INTs, 13 defensive TDs



    11. Ed Reed, Safety
    Baltimore Ravens 2002-12; Houston Texans 2013; New York Jets 2013

    5-time first-team All-Pro, 9-time Pro Bowler

    Super Bowl XLVII champion (Ravens)

    Key stats: 643 tackles, 64 INTs, 13 defensive TDs, 11 forced fumbles
    Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 2019

    NFL 100 All-Time Team (2019)



    10. Paul Krause, Safety
    Washington 1964-67; Minnesota 1968-79

    8-time All-Pro, 8-time Pro Bowler

    1969 NFL champion (Vikings)

    Key stats: 81 INTs (No. 1 all-time)

    Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 1998


    9. Herb Adderley, Cornerback
    Green Bay 1961-69; Dallas 1970-72

    4-time first-team All-Pro, 5-time Pro Bowler

    3-time NFL champion (1961-62, ’65 w/ Packers)

    Super Bowl I, II (Packers) and VI (Cowboys) champion

    Key stats: 48 INTs, 7 defensive TDs

    Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 1980



    8. Jack Tatum, Safety
    Oakland Raiders 1971-79; Houston Oilers 1980

    3-time Pro Bowler

    Super Bowl XI champion (Raiders)



    7. Darrell Green, Cornerback
    Washington 1983-2002

    4-time All-Pro, 7-time Pro Bowler

    Super Bowl XXII, XXVI champion (Redskins)

    Key stat: 54 INTs

    Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 2008

    NFL 100 All-Time Team (2019)



    6. Champ Bailey, Cornerback
    Washington 1999-2003; Denver 2004-13

    Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 2019

    3-time first-team All-Pro, 12-time Pro Bowler

    Key stats: 909 tackles, 52 INTs
    Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 2019




    5. Mel Blount, Cornerback
    Pittsburgh 1970-83

    4-time first-team All-Pro, 5-time Pro Bowler

    Super Bowl IX, X, XIII, XIV Champion

    NFL 75th Anniversary Team

    Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 1989

    NFL 100 All-Time Team (2019)

    Those legendary Steel Curtain defenses would not have been nearly as dominant as they were without Blount occupying the corner position for 14 seasons.

    4. Dick "Night Train" Lane, Cornerback
    Los Angeles Rams 1952-53; Chicago Cardinals 1954-59; Detroit 1960-65

    6-time first-team All-Pro, 7-time Pro Bowler

    Key stat: 68 INTs

    NFL 75th Anniversary Team

    Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 1974

    NFL 100 All-Time Team (2019)




    3. Deion Sanders, Cornerback
    Deion SandersAtlanta 1989-93; San Francisco 1994; Dallas 1995-99; Washington 2000; Baltimore Ravens 2004-05

    8-time All-Pro, 8-time Pro Bowler

    Super Bowl XXIX (49ers) and XXX (Cowboys) champion

    Key stats: 513 tackles, 53 INTs

    Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 2011

    NFL 100 All-Time Team (2019)

    His interception total is incredibly impressive for how often opposing quarterbacks tried to avoid him. Sanders was widely considered the best shutdown corner in the game for most of his career.

    2. Rod Woodson, Cornerback
    Pittsburgh 1987-96; San Francisco 1997; Baltimore Ravens 1998-2001; Oakland 2002-03

    6-time first-team All-Pro, 11-time Pro Bowler

    Super Bowl XXXV champion (Ravens)

    Key stats: 1,163 tackles, 71 INTs, 13.5 sacks

    NFL 75th Anniversary Team member

    Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 2009

    NFL 100 All-Time Team (2019)

    Woodson was doing "Deion things" before Deion Sanders was in the NFL. The difference was, Woodson did it with less flash and subsequent fanfare. Additionally, Woodson was a superior tackler to Sanders and one of the better blitzers from the corner in NFL history.

    1. Ronnie Lott, Safety/Cornerback
    San Francisco 1981-90, ‘95; Los Angeles Raiders 1991-92; New York Jets 1993-94; Kansas City 1995

    8-time first-team All-Pro, 10-time Pro Bowler

    Super Bowl XVI, XIX, XXIII, XXIV champion (49ers)

    Key stats: 1,146 tackles, 63 INTs, 16 forced fumbles

    NFL 75th Anniversary Team

    Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 2000

    NFL 100 All-Time Team (2019)

    Lott was a freak athlete who could close on a play as fast as anyone. His high football IQ allowed him to digest and respond to plays quickly, giving him a leg up and instilling fear in the hearts of opposing receivers. When you went over the middle as a receiver against one of Lott's teams, you had to know No. 42 was going to be there waiting for you. His presence alone changed games and helped make that legendary 49er dynasty a nightmare to prepare for.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 05-22-2020 at 05:29 PM.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Felt,

    We were already making the playoffs as well; Just like the Patriots. For years, it was our play at cornerback which hurt us in that period. I wasn't talking about other teams. I was referring specifically to us and us alone. We were making the playoffs on the reg. We needed secondary help.
    I'd like to point to the Jags game (which is the one that's the actual disappointment) and say that it was our play at (1) ILB and (2) QB that lost us that game.

    Maybe Ben played well enough in the second half to break even and you can call it a push, but I'd argue that timing of the turnovers was critical in that case.

    Either way, the failure on D in that game was at ILB not CB. And that's basically because we had a freak injury to the guy we build the D around. And it happened after the trade deadline.

    But on D, it was very weak ILB play and not CB that lost us that game. And that's the result of a freak accident that happened after the trade deadline.
    Talent vs coaching: [url]www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/48851-Poll-Question-for-Everyone/page14[/url]

    Steelers vs. Other Teams with good QBs: ... /47985-Steelers-most-successful-failure/page5

    Tomlin playoff record vs. expectations (Cowher pg24): ... /48742-Rooney-Brown-meeting/page22

    Tomlin's Las year: ... 49599-Just-sayin?p=778284#post778284

    Maniac Talent>Coaching: ...49632-Trades?p=779158#post779158

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    it was our CB, safeties, OLB, ILB and DL.

    pick any playoff loss and I can point to a unit that didn’t get it done.

    and the other primary culprit in all of our playoff losses?

    Turnovers on offense.
    Steelers were invested in running back and receiver.

    Pats invested in secondary.

    Last playoff the guy who looked like a future HOFer was the Pats Lacross player backup.

    The guy who looked like a pedestrian career backup was our all world receiver Brown.

    Give me great secondary over great receiver any day.

    I can name DOZENS of examples where secondary wins the big games.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 05-22-2020 at 05:38 PM.

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    I'd like to point to the Jags game (which is the one that's the actual disappointment) and say that it was our play at (1) ILB and (2) QB that lost us that game.

    Maybe Ben played well enough in the second half to break even and you can call it a push, but I'd argue that timing of the turnovers was critical in that case.

    Either way, the failure on D in that game was at ILB not CB. And that's basically because we had a freak injury to the guy we build the D around. And it happened after the trade deadline.

    But on D, it was very weak ILB play and not CB that lost us that game. And that's the result of a freak accident that happened after the trade deadline.
    Given our 2008 secondary featuring Troy, Clark, and a truly great tackling corner in Ike?

    They got big chunk runs, both times they played us, our SECONDARY allowed not just 3 and a cloud of dust repeatedly.

    Not only is the pass of that scrub shut down, there is no way we get gashed in the run... regardless the linebackers.

    Would they have run on us? Sure.
    45 points worth. Not a chance.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 05-22-2020 at 05:57 PM.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    Besides QB, I don’t think there is any one piece that makes you a SB contender in a draft.
    Can you make that case by example? I contend that in nearly every case great QB and elite secondary player results in championships.

    Name an example where that did not work?

    Marino/Montana
    The difference in their success is secondary.

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by whisper View Post
    They certainly did (except can't draft WRs to save their lives, even their 1st and 2nd rounders fail).
    Correct, worst receiver drafting team in the league. It ain't even hard, the league is overflowing with good receivers.

    Yet they are the dynasty. Why pay for elite at the position?

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Given our 2008 secondary featuring Troy, Clark, and a truly great tackling corner in Ike?

    They got big chunk runs, both times they played us, our SECONDARY allowed not just 3 and a cloud of dust repeatedly.

    Not only is the pass of that scrub shut down, there is no way we get gashed in the run... regardless the linebackers.

    Would they have run on us? Sure.
    45 points worth. Not a chance.
    No. In both games our offense turned the ball over repeatedly. First game we played well on D and gave up a huge run when we sold out at the end of the game.

    Second game we also had early turnovers and short fields after the first TD drive. Bottles also scrambled for like 75 yards as well.

    Neither of those games were lost due to the secondary. We lost those games because we lost the turnover battle and also turned the ball over on downs 2 or 3 times. D wasn’t good that game but EVERY TIME the D forced a stop and even blocked a punt the offense failed to convert on the next drive.
    Tomlin’s coming back so what can you do?


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