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Thread: Tomlin ‘Excited’ About CB Justin Layne

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    Your note kind of underscores why I think you're wrong about this.

    You don't hire a plant manager because they are good at cutting sheet metal.

    You hire them because they are good at leading people.

    We didn't hire Cowher because he was a good ST coach. Or Tomlin because he was a good DB coach.

    We hired them because we thought they were good at motivating people. And humble enough to listen to input from good coordinators like LeBeau.
    Right on the mark, but the accuracy of your statements will be lost on those who will never see past their prejudices. Fortunately their opinions mean nothing to the Rooney's who know what they are doing and will do the right thing at the right time.

    Head coaches are hired to be leaders and leadership and the ability to earn the respect of grown men is qualification #1.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    Your note kind of underscores why I think you're wrong about this.

    You don't hire a plant manager because they are good at cutting sheet metal.

    You hire them because they are good at leading people.

    We didn't hire Cowher because he was a good ST coach. Or Tomlin because he was a good DB coach.

    We hired them because we thought they were good at motivating people. And humble enough to listen to input from good coordinators like LeBeau.
    He inherited all the good cutters from the previous plant manager. Who cares that the plant has been consistently among the best the last 14 years. Fire him!!!
    Tomlin’s coming back so what can you do?


  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    But we've had a woeful inability to hit on players that can play well in the secondary so there is more of a microscope on Layne then a lot of other
    developmental guys. It would really go a long way in him developing to be "that guy". We need to hit with him; We are over due to hit on a good player for the secondary.
    Not trying to stir the pot too much here, but at some point, when the history of one area of defense is so solidly bad, someone has to ask if we are doing something wrong systemically.
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  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djfan View Post
    Not trying to stir the pot too much here, but at some point, when the history of one area of defense is so solidly bad, someone has to ask if we are doing something wrong systemically.
    I really think a big part of the problem was Lebeau’s huge playbook. Kids coming in totally confused by a book that was said to be 2 or 3 times as large as the offenses playbook.

    They have simplified the playbook these last few years. Haden’s first year he was often beat in zone because he looked confused. Just let a guy like Haden play man on the best WR instead of trying to trick the other team into making a
    mistake.
    Tomlin’s coming back so what can you do?


  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djfan View Post
    Not trying to stir the pot too much here, but at some point, when the history of one area of defense is so solidly bad, someone has to ask if we are doing something wrong systemically.
    Your exactly right; But it's a slow process around Steelerville in that realization when you talk about embracing new and different things.
    From the 2010-2019 season, (A 9 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks.
    Dolphin fans in the 90’s who wanted to hold on to Don Shula for what he did in the 70’s...

    Are the same as Steeler fans (of 2020 ) holding on to Tomlin for what he did in 2008.

    [url]http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/50121-A-Positive-View-of-they-Draft/page17[/url]

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djfan View Post
    Not trying to stir the pot too much here, but at some point, when the history of one area of defense is so solidly bad, someone has to ask if we are doing something wrong systemically.
    Systematic? Wrong?

    You all do realize that the Steelers with ZERO Cowher secondary players were 4th in pass defense last season right?

    Some contended the issue had been talent, others coaching.

    Despite the complete illogical reasoning that credit goes to Cowher for a number one pass defense with players Cowher never coached to leagues best makes ZERO sense.

    Now Cowhers players are gone what basis for the insistence that a handful of seasons with less than elite pass defenses makes Tomlin a bad coach.

    We have the number 4 pass defense, Cowher free.

    Rank Team 2019 Last 3 Last 1 Home Away 2018
    1 New England 173.9 191.0 71.0 190.3 155.5 247.7

    2 San Francisco 178.8 230.0 268.0 168.5 190.2 233.2

    3 Pittsburgh 194.6 128.7 81.0 174.5 214.6 231.1

    4 Buffalo 196.6 225.0 219.0 163.0 226.4 179.2

    5 Baltimore 199.9 114.7 83.0 198.3 201.6 206.7

    6 LA Chargers 200.2 216.0 174.0 202.0 198.9 229.3

    7 Cleveland 216.9 213.0 182.0 236.8 197.0 257.8

    8 Chicago 222.1 187.3 126.0 222.4 221.9 221.9

    9 Dallas 223.5 254.3 183.0 225.8 221.2 231.5

    10 Green Bay 225.3 156.0 69.0 235.8 214.8 234.5

    11 Denver 225.6 267.3 380.0 205.2 245.9 245.6

    12 LA Rams 226.6 249.7 322.0 243.9 213.1 238.6

    13 Kansas City 226.9 256.0 210.0 237.3 215.3 272.3

    14 Minnesota 227.0 176.0 122.0 214.8 236.8 196.2

    15 Carolina 231.0 214.7 264.0 248.4 213.6 240.4

    16 Jacksonville 236.1 254.0 143.0 247.1 227.6 194.6

    17 NY Jets 236.2 211.0 236.0 236.1 236.2 254.1

    18 Washington 238.9 299.3 294.0 250.6 227.2 237.1

    19 New Orleans 240.8 254.0 226.0 216.0 268.8 266.9

    20 Cincinnati 244.8 253.7 239.0 223.8 265.9 275.9

    21 Atlanta 244.9 186.3 193.0 230.1 259.6 259.6

    22 Philadelphia 246.1 283.3 318.0 209.9 286.8 271.2

    23 Indianapolis 248.9 264.0 286.0 215.6 282.1 237.5

    24 Seattle 256.7 222.3 235.0 266.5 248.8 238.7

    25 Oakland 256.7 206.0 168.0 269.4 246.8 240.8

    26 Tennessee 259.3 282.0 292.0 266.0 254.4 216.9

    27 Miami 262.4 287.3 217.0 283.6 241.1 245.8

    28 NY Giants 264.1 274.0 279.0 220.9 307.2 252.8

    29 Houston 269.2 263.7 316.0 242.4 295.9 258.2

    30 Tampa Bay 270.1 232.3 286.0 245.9 289.0 259.4

    31 Arizona 281.9 228.3 311.0 283.8 280.0 203.9

    32 Detroit 284.4 318.7 312.0 344.1 224.8 224.9

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    I really think a big part of the problem was Lebeau’s huge playbook. Kids coming in totally confused by a book that was said to be 2 or 3 times as large as the offenses playbook.

    They have simplified the playbook these last few years. Haden’s first year he was often beat in zone because he looked confused. Just let a guy like Haden play man on the best WR instead of trying to trick the other team into making a
    mistake.
    One common factor in EVERY SINGLE POST 70s Steeler SB appearance.

    The only solitary person not named Rooney who was a key contributor-
    Dick Lebeau

  8. #78
    Pro Bowler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    One common factor in EVERY SINGLE POST 70s Steeler SB appearance.

    The only solitary person not named Rooney who was a key contributor-
    Dick Lebeau
    DL is a Hofer and one of the best to ever do it.. but I think after 25 to 30 years his zone blitz was easy pickings for teams like NE.

    Once teams figured out how to put RB’s and WR’s on OLB it was a wrap.

    I also think this new generation of DB’s and DL’s playbook weren’t a good fit.
    Tomlin’s coming back so what can you do?


  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    DL is a Hofer and one of the best to ever do it.. but I think after 25 to 30 years his zone blitz was easy pickings for teams like NE.

    Once teams figured out how to put RB’s and WR’s on OLB it was a wrap.

    I also think this new generation of DB’s and DL’s playbook weren’t a good fit.
    Is THAT why we struggled with old man W Gay and Brice Mcain as our starting tandem?

    See Dizz, so many of figure it has to be the coach without looking at WHO they were coaching.

    My take on Lebeau is no different than the standard by which we both judge Tomlin.

    You think Butlers simpler defense fixes that lack of talent?
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 05-20-2020 at 09:38 AM.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Systematic? Wrong?

    You all do realize that the Steelers with ZERO Cowher secondary players were 4th in pass defense last season right?

    Some contended the issue had been talent, others coaching.

    Despite the complete illogical reasoning that credit goes to Cowher for a number one pass defense with players Cowher never coached to leagues best makes ZERO sense.

    Now Cowhers players are gone what basis for the insistence that a handful of seasons with less than elite pass defenses makes Tomlin a bad coach.

    We have the number 4 pass defense, Cowher free.

    Rank Team 2019 Last 3 Last 1 Home Away 2018
    1 New England 173.9 191.0 71.0 190.3 155.5 247.7

    2 San Francisco 178.8 230.0 268.0 168.5 190.2 233.2

    3 Pittsburgh 194.6 128.7 81.0 174.5 214.6 231.1

    4 Buffalo 196.6 225.0 219.0 163.0 226.4 179.2

    5 Baltimore 199.9 114.7 83.0 198.3 201.6 206.7

    6 LA Chargers 200.2 216.0 174.0 202.0 198.9 229.3

    7 Cleveland 216.9 213.0 182.0 236.8 197.0 257.8

    8 Chicago 222.1 187.3 126.0 222.4 221.9 221.9

    9 Dallas 223.5 254.3 183.0 225.8 221.2 231.5

    10 Green Bay 225.3 156.0 69.0 235.8 214.8 234.5

    11 Denver 225.6 267.3 380.0 205.2 245.9 245.6

    12 LA Rams 226.6 249.7 322.0 243.9 213.1 238.6

    13 Kansas City 226.9 256.0 210.0 237.3 215.3 272.3

    14 Minnesota 227.0 176.0 122.0 214.8 236.8 196.2

    15 Carolina 231.0 214.7 264.0 248.4 213.6 240.4

    16 Jacksonville 236.1 254.0 143.0 247.1 227.6 194.6

    17 NY Jets 236.2 211.0 236.0 236.1 236.2 254.1

    18 Washington 238.9 299.3 294.0 250.6 227.2 237.1

    19 New Orleans 240.8 254.0 226.0 216.0 268.8 266.9

    20 Cincinnati 244.8 253.7 239.0 223.8 265.9 275.9

    21 Atlanta 244.9 186.3 193.0 230.1 259.6 259.6

    22 Philadelphia 246.1 283.3 318.0 209.9 286.8 271.2

    23 Indianapolis 248.9 264.0 286.0 215.6 282.1 237.5

    24 Seattle 256.7 222.3 235.0 266.5 248.8 238.7

    25 Oakland 256.7 206.0 168.0 269.4 246.8 240.8

    26 Tennessee 259.3 282.0 292.0 266.0 254.4 216.9

    27 Miami 262.4 287.3 217.0 283.6 241.1 245.8

    28 NY Giants 264.1 274.0 279.0 220.9 307.2 252.8

    29 Houston 269.2 263.7 316.0 242.4 295.9 258.2

    30 Tampa Bay 270.1 232.3 286.0 245.9 289.0 259.4

    31 Arizona 281.9 228.3 311.0 283.8 280.0 203.9

    32 Detroit 284.4 318.7 312.0 344.1 224.8 224.9
    Are you saying that we were # 4 because of an upgrade in talent by Minka?
    From the 2010-2019 season, (A 9 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks.
    Dolphin fans in the 90’s who wanted to hold on to Don Shula for what he did in the 70’s...

    Are the same as Steeler fans (of 2020 ) holding on to Tomlin for what he did in 2008.

    [url]http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/50121-A-Positive-View-of-they-Draft/page17[/url]

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