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Thread: Ben in great shape?

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Good point; Great point. Has our system changed? Did it change with the drafting of Justin Lange? Where are we with the development of Justin Layne?
    Drafted players are lottery tickets. And the chance to hit goes down dramatically as the draft goes by.

    Layne will probably not end up being an average to above average starter (and the odds of even becoming a starter probably aren't that good either).

    Few NFL players get average results. "But how can that be" you ask, "average means that more than half of the players get those results."

    I guess it depends what average we're talking about. I'm talking about mean production (average results). And most players at a given position are below the mean production because a very small number of players have elite production. That drives the mean up above what most players can do. Guys with the median production are still valuable, but they are probably the Vince William's of the league.

    The majority of draft picks fail if just "being average" is the goal.

    This is part of the reason that some people (including me) believe that talent is the most important thing in sports.
    Talent vs coaching: [url]www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/48851-Poll-Question-for-Everyone/page14[/url]

    Steelers vs. Other Teams with good QBs: ... /47985-Steelers-most-successful-failure/page5

    Tomlin playoff record vs. expectations (Cowher pg24): ... /48742-Rooney-Brown-meeting/page22

    Tomlin's Las year: ... 49599-Just-sayin?p=778284#post778284

    Maniac Talent>Coaching: ...49632-Trades?p=779158#post779158

  2. #82
    Pro Bowler

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    No unit can stay great for an extended period of time. It’s rare for both an offense and defense to rank high in the same year.

    Our D was in top for a while and offense made enough plays to get us a few rings. We spent a ton on the D and tried for one more run and we paid the price.

    We also started paying the offense once the D aged out.

    Why some people forget is they wanted the high flying offense and 40 passes a game. More passing means more chances for turnovers and less time of possession which puts an average D back on the field.

    Most of our frustrating losses had two things in common. Our O turned the ball over and our D didn’t force TO’s.
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


  3. #83
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    Tomlin is now saying that Ben's in great shape, FWIW.

    https://steelersdepot.com/2020/05/to...cal-condition/

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Tomlin is now saying that Ben's in great shape, FWIW.

    https://steelersdepot.com/2020/05/to...cal-condition/
    We are talking about who to blame for a Steeler defense had a 4 year decline.

    Buzz, why you gotta hijack the thread with an irrelevant comment from Tomlin about Ben's health.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    No unit can stay great for an extended period of time. Itís rare for both an offense and defense to rank high in the same year.

    Our D was in top for a while and offense made enough plays to get us a few rings. We spent a ton on the D and tried for one more run and we paid the price.

    We also started paying the offense once the D aged out.

    Why some people forget is they wanted the high flying offense and 40 passes a game. More passing means more chances for turnovers and less time of possession which puts an average D back on the field.

    Most of our frustrating losses had two things in common. Our O turned the ball over and our D didnít force TOís.
    I have said repeatedly on this board that I always believe the best and most important investment is putting the top Offensive Line in the league on the field. Give me 5 superior guys who keep my QB upright. Who open huge holes that any NFL caliber RB can exploit. Establish a ball control game that keeps my offense ON the field and my defense (no matter how great) OFF the field. Let my QB have 5 seconds to read the secondary and make the throw. Let my defense sit for 38 minutes of the game and play for 22. This all starts with the O-Line.

    It's not sexy - but that, in my opinion, is how you win games consistently - and with a little luck, a championship here and there.

    We went through a stretch with our Defense that if it was only a one score game with 4 minutes left - you just knew they were giving it up. A whole host of reasons why that was - but it just was. Certainly they are massively improved over years past - but I firmly believe unless the offense can control the clock, minimize turnovers and stay on the field, it will be another frustrating year.

    I suspect what I'm saying is simplistic and obvious - but it seems as fans we get distracted by the exciting and complex. Quick scores, lots of offense etc. If the goal is to win games and win championships - give me 150 yards of rushing with 250 yards of passing, 38 minutes TOP and 24 points.

    Oh - and for Christmas I want an official Red Ryder, carbine action, two-hundred shot range model air rifle.

    So there's that.
    2014 MNF EXEC CHAMPION!!!

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    No unit can stay great for an extended period of time. Itís rare for both an offense and defense to rank high in the same year.

    Our D was in top for a while and offense made enough plays to get us a few rings. We spent a ton on the D and tried for one more run and we paid the price.

    We also started paying the offense once the D aged out.

    Why some people forget is they wanted the high flying offense and 40 passes a game. More passing means more chances for turnovers and less time of possession which puts an average D back on the field.

    Most of our frustrating losses had two things in common. Our O turned the ball over and our D didnít force TOís.
    This is truth.
    That is why "some people" (me) have ALWAYS argued against paying big buck to elite offensive "skill" players whose price was too high, and invest is hard to draft positions like secondary as free agents.

    That is the overlooked strategy that has worked for the Pat's FOR YEARS.

    And they ARE hard to find Maniac if you don't have an early pick because great secondary players easy to ID in college compared to most positions. By the time you get to the third corner in most drafts odds are you are getting an average talent or a miss.

    Noll and Cowher had jack squat to do with Woodson being "great".

    Picking 8 allowed us to select a great cornerback.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 05-15-2020 at 10:10 AM.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlifter View Post
    I have said repeatedly on this board that I always believe the best and most important investment is putting the top Offensive Line in the league on the field. Give me 5 superior guys who keep my QB upright. Who open huge holes that any NFL caliber RB can exploit. Establish a ball control game that keeps my offense ON the field and my defense (no matter how great) OFF the field. Let my QB have 5 seconds to read the secondary and make the throw. Let my defense sit for 38 minutes of the game and play for 22. This all starts with the O-Line.

    It's not sexy - but that, in my opinion, is how you win games consistently - and with a little luck, a championship here and there.

    We went through a stretch with our Defense that if it was only a one score game with 4 minutes left - you just knew they were giving it up. A whole host of reasons why that was - but it just was. Certainly they are massively improved over years past - but I firmly believe unless the offense can control the clock, minimize turnovers and stay on the field, it will be another frustrating year.

    I suspect what I'm saying is simplistic and obvious - but it seems as fans we get distracted by the exciting and complex. Quick scores, lots of offense etc. If the goal is to win games and win championships - give me 150 yards of rushing with 250 yards of passing, 38 minutes TOP and 24 points.

    Oh - and for Christmas I want an official Red Ryder, carbine action, two-hundred shot range model air rifle.

    So there's that.
    Where are the Cowboys rings? They are in the 90s when THERE WAS truth in what you state. But they recently have often had the best oline.

    When we won our SBs we had below average oline play beyond Faneca. Our recent olines are better that those ones.

    Beyond quarterback, you want defense. You want to have at least one elite secondary player in today's NFL.

    Outside of QB an elite secondary player is the most consistent factor of championship teams.

    I do agree though that quality of oline, is WAY more important than paying for elite skill players.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Where are the Cowboys rings? They are in the 90s when THERE WAS truth in what you state. But they recently have often had the best oline.

    When we won our SBs we had below average oline play beyond Faneca. Our recent olines are better that those ones.

    Beyond quarterback, you want defense. You want to have at least one elite secondary player in today's NFL.

    Outside of QB an elite secondary player is the most consistent factor of championship teams.

    I do agree though that quality of oline, is WAY more important than paying for elite skill players.
    I would suggest that the last championship won where elite oline was central was the Elway/Davis Broncos.

  9. #89
    Pro Bowler

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    It’s more than rings IMO. Once you get to the playoffs one play can be the difference between reaching a SB or getting knocked out.

    I don’t think it’s fair to ask why a team with a good OL didn’t have a ring.

    Incant remember if it was the first or second NFCCG but GB was one one side kick recovery from a SB appearance. Dude had it in his hands and got butterfingers.

    Aaron Rodgers making an insane pass completion vs Dallas in an epic comeback.

    If we ran the ball inside the 5 vs Denver when we were rolling before the end of the quarter and we got cute...

    Rams DB not being called for blatant INT...

    Any of those plays go the other way and the team with the ring discussion could be totally different.
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


  10. #90
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    which is why I said a great O-line leads to consistent winning - but you also need a bit of luck for the occasional championship. In single elimination playoffs - one play can change the game. But there's no way to guard or prevent that from happening - so i still think my overall premise is sound.
    2014 MNF EXEC CHAMPION!!!

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