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Thread: Reality: Salary Cap and making decisions

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    I think it helps...but BB ALSO spends wisely.
    I have been saying it FOR YEARS, dude does not overpay "skill players" and that has always been a HUGE advantage.
    Also the heartlessness you mention...no loyalty whatsoever...shows in not overpaying beloved veterans.

    Players are just disposable chess pieces. Huge advantage
    I agree that underpaying for skill players is important.

    But he also massively underpays for his QB.

    I don't think you can say that he wins only because he underpays skill players when the underpayment on the QB is probably bigger than all the skill players in a given year combined.

    For example, Sportrack has Tom Brady's 2020 cap hit as $13.5M. That's more than $20M less than the highest QB cap hit, Goff at $36M.

    That extra $20M buys a whole lot of talent. And Brady should rightfully have a hit that's significantly higher than Goff's given their accomplishments.

    You literally cannot underpay a RB by $20M with Gurley's record setting cap hit at $17.25M.

    You could technically underpay a WR by $20M in 2020 because Sammy Watkins ($21M) makes over that much. Julio Jones ($20.4M) does too, but I don't think you can pay anyone less than $510k in the NFL (at least no one in the top ~170 on Sportrack is lower than $510k).

    Now, maybe Brady never plays for that number. But, in 2019 his cap hit was still almost $10M under the highest hit. And again, his market value hit would easily be higher than Stafford's.
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 01-07-2020 at 01:46 PM.
    Talent vs coaching: [url]www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/48851-Poll-Question-for-Everyone/page14[/url]

    Steelers vs. Other Teams with good QBs: ... /47985-Steelers-most-successful-failure/page5

    Tomlin playoff record vs. expectations (Cowher pg24): ... /48742-Rooney-Brown-meeting/page22

    Tomlin's Las year: ... 49599-Just-sayin?p=778284#post778284

    Maniac Talent>Coaching: ...49632-Trades?p=779158#post779158

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    'overpaying ' - pay that doesn't match performance.
    Your assessment only works in an uncapped world.
    The savvy teams are finding ways to maneuver at the non-elite QB level.
    Moving the goalposts are we?

    Just as we overpaid Lamar Woodley....ANY player at any position who underperforms is by definition overpaid. Duh!

    The contention of the article...AND of everybody here before I entered the topic was that paying top QB money is a mistake PERIOD.
    Rogers, Brees, Jimmy.G, Wilson, Cousins...HECK FIVE OUT OF THE SIX QBs NFC PLAYOFFS was mentioned BY NAME in that article.

    That article and its contention are wrong as are those who agreed with it without even looking at the facts.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 01-07-2020 at 01:43 PM.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    'overpaying ' - pay that doesn't match performance.
    Your assessment only works in an uncapped world.
    The savvy teams are finding ways to maneuver at the non-elite QB level.
    We were able to turn a 1-4 start into an 8-5 season with practice squad replacements at some key positions.

    I think Colbert and company have shown they are pretty savvy at putting a roster together.

    The reason we had so much success with Ben is because we had everything else in place besides the QB.

    If we can keep the nucleus of the D in place I think we can make a run with a competent QB.
    ILB
    DL
    S
    RB
    WR
    LB


  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    I agree that underpaying for skill players is important.

    But he also massively underpays for his QB.

    I don't think you can say that he wins only because he underpays skill players when the underpayment on the QB is probably bigger than all the skill players in a given year combined.

    For example, Sportrack has Tom Brady's 2020 cap hit as $13.5M. That's more than $20M less than the highest QB cap hit, Goff at $36M.

    That extra $20M buys a whole lot of talent. And Brady should rightfully have a hit that's significantly higher than Goff's given their accomplishments.

    You literally cannot underpay a RB by $20M with Gurley's record setting cap hit at $17.25M.

    You could technically underpay a WR by $20M in 2020 because Sammy Watkins ($21M) makes over that much. Julio Jones ($20.4M) does too, but I don't think you can pay anyone less than $510k in the NFL (at least no one in the top ~170 on Sportrack is lower than $510k).

    Now, maybe Brady never plays for that number. But, in 2019 his cap hit was still almost $10M under the highest hit. And again, his market value hit would easily be higher than Stafford's.
    You miss the point. No debate, on the Brady advantage, but even then...with more money TO spend, he spends SMARTER than the rest of the league.
    He can better afford to pay elite backs and receivers than us but NEVER does it.

    He spends on more important positions like DBs.
    Most of the league do not understand the value of having to talent at the RIGHT positions means saving on other positions.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    We were able to turn a 1-4 start into an 8-5 season with practice squad replacements at some key positions.

    I think Colbert and company have shown they are pretty savvy at putting a roster together.

    The reason we had so much success with Ben is because we had everything else in place besides the QB.

    If we can keep the nucleus of the D in place I think we can make a run with a competent QB.
    Imagine this D with Ben in his prime?

    THAT is why haters overvaluing our elite skill players are so frustrated with coach.
    They considered THAT to represent an elite team.

    Elite QB and great defense...at the expense of top tier offensive players is the best formula for success.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    This is a really good article.

    I've heard them mention the 30% rule a couple of times on the Terrible Podcast, but I didn't know what it meant.

    I think the June 1st thing means that the Steelers would be screwed if Ben retired. So, I think he'll be on the roster even if his elbow is replaced by a 2x4.
    Not totally screwed if Ben retired. We’d get $8.5m of cap relief, but then need to find a starting caliber QB.

    Other than kissing Hilton, Feiler, Barron, Hargrave, Finney and Vannett goodbye i don’t see how you can keep Bud and meet the 30% rule of a long term contract. And I thought I’d figured out a way. 🙁

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    You miss the point. No debate, on the Brady advantage, but even then...with more money TO spend, he spends SMARTER than the rest of the league.
    He can better afford to pay elite backs and receivers than us but NEVER does it.

    He spends on more important positions like DBs.
    Most of the league do not understand the value of having to talent at the RIGHT positions means saving on other positions.
    I agree that one of us is missing the point

    I agree with everything you're saying about skill positions.

    I only recognize the QB is a skill position too. It's the most important one. Which means it pays the highest benefit when you get it right and has the most crippling cost when you get it wrong.

    If the Rams got it wrong with Goff, the'll be screwed until they can unload that contract.

    I think we're in a similar situation with Ben. I think he wasn't going to live up to the contract to begin with (but I'm hoping for large cap inflation with the CBA).

    We'll live with the contract, but I worry that it means that we won't be able to have a good offense and a good defense at the same time (which has basically been the case since our last SB appearance).
    Talent vs coaching: [url]www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/48851-Poll-Question-for-Everyone/page14[/url]

    Steelers vs. Other Teams with good QBs: ... /47985-Steelers-most-successful-failure/page5

    Tomlin playoff record vs. expectations (Cowher pg24): ... /48742-Rooney-Brown-meeting/page22

    Tomlin's Las year: ... 49599-Just-sayin?p=778284#post778284

    Maniac Talent>Coaching: ...49632-Trades?p=779158#post779158

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerMaine83 View Post
    Not totally screwed if Ben retired. We’d get $8.5m of cap relief, but then need to find a starting caliber QB.

    Other than kissing Hilton, Feiler, Barron, Hargrave, Finney and Vannett goodbye i don’t see how you can keep Bud and meet the 30% rule of a long term contract. And I thought I’d figured out a way. 
    I also think that we won't be able to keep Bud.

    But, I don't think Tomlin would have made the comment he did if they didn't have a plan to make it happen.

    We'll see I guess.

    It would be nice if Ben's cap hit was closer to Rodger's or Brees' (~$12M less)

    But don't tell that to Cap .
    Talent vs coaching: [url]www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/48851-Poll-Question-for-Everyone/page14[/url]

    Steelers vs. Other Teams with good QBs: ... /47985-Steelers-most-successful-failure/page5

    Tomlin playoff record vs. expectations (Cowher pg24): ... /48742-Rooney-Brown-meeting/page22

    Tomlin's Las year: ... 49599-Just-sayin?p=778284#post778284

    Maniac Talent>Coaching: ...49632-Trades?p=779158#post779158

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    I agree that one of us is missing the point

    I agree with everything you're saying about skill positions.

    I only recognize the QB is a skill position too. It's the most important one. Which means it pays the highest benefit when you get it right and has the most crippling cost when you get it wrong.

    If the Rams got it wrong with Goff, the'll be screwed until they can unload that contract.

    I think we're in a similar situation with Ben. I think he wasn't going to live up to the contract to begin with (but I'm hoping for large cap inflation with the CBA).

    We'll live with the contract, but I worry that it means that we won't be able to have a good offense and a good defense at the same time (which has basically been the case since our last SB appearance).
    You do know you just have employed the only way to deceive yourself into thinking you won a debate with me right?

    You are debating a point I have never tried to make Blitz.
    I have repeatedly said it a mistake to overpay the wrong QBs.
    I dont think that is rocket science.

    "The Point" that I took issue with is the article which references a nearly every QB in the NFC playoff this season.
    It was proven wrong Blitz. And I showed that in a way that cannot be reasonably contradicted.
    YOU replied to "my" comment about the article, therefore the "article" is the point in contention.

    My comment was never about bad QB signings. It was about the article.
    The only thing it got right is not sticking with "bad" QBs.
    What is implied about paying good ones....WRONG.

    If your feelings are as expressed here, we agree.

    If you contend that anything I have ACTUALLY SAID about that article are incorrect...where?
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 01-07-2020 at 02:43 PM.

  10. #60
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    hey Cap, did you ever receive my PM back to you? for some reason I'm having problems with it...

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