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Thread: This Guy... Worth a #1 Pick

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Spaghetti View Post
    and you thinking passer rating is some kind of barometer is hysterical

    Ben's play was far superior to the slop we are seeing from mason. if you can't admit that, that's on you
    there are alot of other factors in play when evaluating the two in their first years (such as supporting cast etc). Your statements are too vague and simplistic. and yes, passer rating is a metric used to evaluate performance. Sorry if that fact of life doesnt support your agenda.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Spaghetti View Post
    nah, i will keep on reading for the entertainment value
    good for you then. you might learn something.

  3. #143
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    doubtful, but watching you die on a hill comparing mason to Ben will certainly elicit some laughs and for that I salute you

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Spaghetti View Post
    doubtful, but watching you die on a hill comparing mason to Ben will certainly elicit some laughs and for that I salute you
    i dont see anyone else laughing eddie. perhaps it might be time to look in the mirror

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
    like i said.. you disappeared once the numbers started showing up...and for you to show up now after the cleveland game (yea he stunk it up) is pretty laughable. My arguements were made with what i had at the time.. with the info i had in hand.. i cant see into the future any more than you can
    You looked at NOTHING but QB ratings as your argument.
    Some of us looked at HOW he got those numbers.
    If you looked at the actual passes not just QB ratings you would not need the Browns game to see he aint no Ben.

    Before the Browns, dude is likely 85 while percent dumping it off a ton. Wasn't throwing picks.
    But most of his 15 plus yard throws were not great throws...even completions.
    QB rating did not reflect the actual quality of his play.

    You mock Eddie for "waiting" til the loss?

    Ernie, why argue with someome who wont hear you?

    At some point you just "wait" knowing full well time will validate you.
    Eddie was right. Time has proven it.

    If your arguments had real merit...one game doesnt make a difference.
    Continue to make the claim. Mason had no receivers, a legit excuse.
    Ben has had WORSE games.

    You caved after ONE LOSS because you saw the evidence of what others have been saying all along.
    Just own it man.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 11-17-2019 at 02:05 PM.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    You looked at NOTHING but QB ratings as your argument.
    Some of us looked at HOW he got those numbers.
    If you looked at the actual passes not just QB ratings you would not need the Browns game to see he aint no Ben.

    Before the Browns, dude is likely 85 percent dumping it off. Wasnt throwing picks.
    But most of his 15 plus yard throws were not great throws...even completions.

    You mock Eddie for "waiting" til the loss?

    Ernie, why argue with someome who wont hear you?

    At some point you just "wait" knowing full well time will validate you.
    Eddie was right. Time has proven it.

    If your arguments had real merit...one game doesnt make a difference.
    Continue to make the claim. Mason had no receivers, a legit excuse.
    Ben has had WORSE games.

    You caved after ONE LOSS because you saw the evidence of what others have been saying all along.
    Just own it man.
    Lemming....
    i honestly lost interest in your post after you alleged that i only compared passer ratings.. i also quoted yards per game...
    but ive been beating my chest on here since MR took over at QB.. about how poor the playcalling is.
    Have you heard me refer to the OC as "Feetner"... the "Worst in the league"...and someone that should be fired?
    I also lost interest... to be honest.. because you think i believe MR = BR... just because the stats were comparable at those two points in time.. doesnt mean one = the other.

    i also made the argument (and accurately so) that the playcalling was very conservative for both qbs in their first years (as to protect themselves from themselves). As feltz (now OhWow) accurately pointed out in another thread...we were a very run heavy, predictable team during Ben's rookie year.
    Last edited by Ernie; 11-17-2019 at 02:13 PM.

  7. #147
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    my whole purpose for even commenting on the whole thing initially is because of all of the "Knee jerk" posters on here who like to throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak. i made the #s comparison to show that i wasnt ready to give up on MR. I wasnt saying he was as good as Ben, or ever will be. I do think at this point in Ben's career... we overpaid him on the extension...and extended him too early (should have waited until after the season).. that statement was made from a numbers perspective.. in regards to the cap and keeping the other pieces of the team in place.. if that makes me "Anti Ben" so to speak in the eyes of some... ill gladly own it

  8. #148
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    The Best N.F.L. Trade of the Season? Look to Pittsburgh

    After forcing his way out of Miami, Minkah Fitzpatrick has powered the Steelers’ surprising surge into contention.

    By Ben Shpigel
    Dec. 4, 2019

    PITTSBURGH — Minkah Fitzpatrick has always known that playing well gives him options. When he received dozens of scholarship offers in high school, he elected to play at Alabama because it was where he would develop most quickly. Then after his junior season, when the Crimson Tide won the second national title of his tenure and he was honored as college football’s best defensive player, Fitzpatrick entered the N.F.L. draft because he didn’t think he had anything more to prove.

    “I know how I am, I know what I can do and how I carry myself,” Fitzpatrick said in an interview. “I’m always going to bet on myself.”

    These were, he said recently, strictly “business decisions,” made to augment his brand, potential value and earning power in the N.F.L. The principles steering those choices guided him again after he got there. In mid-September, about 16 months after the Dolphins selected him No. 11 over all, as the first defensive back taken, Fitzpatrick requested a trade because he didn’t think Miami’s new coaching staff was maximizing his abilities.

    Fitzpatrick committed to leaving but, unlike unhappy peers in the N.B.A., could not choose where he’d be going. That destination turned out to be Pittsburgh, which surrendered a bounty of draft choices that included its first- and fifth-round picks in 2020. His range, steadiness and turnover-hoarding aptitude at free safety have powered the Steelers’ resurgence to such an extent that their fans might very well consider petitioning to rename the city after him.

    Fitzburgh, anyone?

    The Steelers (7-5) have vaulted into the A.F.C. playoff chase by winning seven of their 10 games, and six of the last seven heading into Sunday’s game at Arizona, since acquiring Fitzpatrick, who has accounted for eight of the team’s league-leading 28 takeaways over that span — five interceptions, two fumble recoveries and a forced fumble — while scoring two touchdowns. Or as many as Odell Beckham Jr., Alvin Kamara and Greg Olsen.

    The Steelers’ deal for Fitzpatrick was an isolated occurrence of the player-driven movement that’s common in the N.B.A. but has yet to infiltrate the N.F.L. Really, how often are there trades involving players of his caliber, barely 23 years old and under a contract favorable to his team through 2021?

    All professional teams act on their own best interests, signing and cutting players without regret, but the N.F.L.’s system is uniquely crafted to smother player power — with a hard salary cap, a franchise tag, a rookie wage scale. Amid that landscape a few standouts have tried seizing control of their careers.

    Amy Trask, the former chief executive officer of the Raiders who worked nearly three decades in the N.F.L., hesitated to label this a trend, acknowledging the different circumstances that affect an organization’s decision. She also speculated that the next iteration of the collective bargaining agreement, which expires after the 2020 season, could also affect players’ empowerment. But she thought it notable that on either side of Fitzpatrick’s departure, two other stars pried their way out in such proximity to one another.

    “Clearly, this is something one would never see with people that don’t have that sort of level of gravitas within their organization, if you will,” Trask, now an analyst for CBS, said in a telephone interview.

    Fitzpatrick declined to explain why he requested a trade from Miami, where team officials, he said, tried persuading him to reconsider. But he indicated that he was not pleased that the Dolphins wanted to move him around the defensive backfield from week to week instead of anchoring him at one position. By Week 2, when Fitzpatrick played the majority of his defensive snaps at his desired spot, free safety, forcing and recovering a fumble against New England, the rift was beyond repair.

    “A lot of people just think that they’re stuck in the situation that they’re in, and that isn’t the case, you know what I’m saying?” Fitzpatrick said in a recent interview at the Steelers’ practice facility. “Some people are. I was fortunate enough to be in a situation where I can speak my mind and share my opinion and also hear their opinion.”

    He added: “I didn’t want to leave — I wanted to work things out and communicate and find a way to move forward — but it just didn’t happen, couldn’t happen. We had different opinions.”

    At the time, the Dolphins, after detonating their roster to amass draft picks and gain financial flexibility, were 0-2. So were the Steelers, who had far more talent than Miami but had just lost two critical starters to season-ending injuries: quarterback Ben Roethlisberger (elbow) and safety Sean Davis (shoulder). On Sept. 16, hours after announcing that Roethlisberger needed surgery, Pittsburgh took a series of calculated risks.

    By Week 2 of this season Fitzpatrick’s rift with Dolphins team officials was beyond repair. “I wanted to work things out and communicate and find a way to move forward,” he said, “but it just didn’t happen, couldn’t happen.”

    Not since 1966 had the Steelers parted with a first-round draft selection, and if they were going to do so for Fitzpatrick, they had to believe that the team, led by a backup quarterback, would finish well enough that its pick would fall late in the round, or at least not in the top 10. Otherwise, following a poor season and with their quarterback situation in flux, they would be squandering a prime opportunity to draft Roethlisberger’s successor.

    “We end up with our No. 1 being 20th or 25th again, we probably made a good trade,” defensive coordinator Keith Butler said. “I thought we made a good trade anyway, regardless of where we land. I’m glad we got him.”

    Coach Mike Tomlin added in an interview, “It really wasn’t a hard decision on our part.”

    Tomlin scouted Fitzpatrick twice before the 2018 draft — just in case, Tomlin figured — even though he knew he would be gone when Pittsburgh picked at No. 28. He liked Fitzpatrick’s awareness and his ball skills, communication style and personality. Tomlin said he also valued the versatility that allowed Fitzpatrick to practice at six positions in Miami, though he intends to keep him at free safety, at least for now.

    Before Fitzpatrick had practiced with the Steelers, Tomlin announced that he would start that week at San Francisco. The team accommodated Fitzpatrick by simplifying his assignments, giving him a menu of defenses it expected to run so he could relate them to those from his previous schemes. Every week the Steelers have layered on more responsibilities, and Fitzpatrick has conquered them all.

    “For a guy who’s only been on the defense for a few weeks still,” outside linebacker T.J. Watt said, “he’s communicating like he’s been in this defense his whole life.”

    The Steelers have a rich history of outstanding defensive backs, from Mel Blount to Rod Woodson, Mike Wagner to Donnie Shell. But they haven’t had a player with Fitzpatrick’s acumen and athleticism since Troy Polamalu, curly locks flowing from beneath his helmet, last patrolled the secondary in 2014. Butler said it was too early, and unfair, to compare Fitzpatrick, in his second season, to Polamalu, a former defensive player of the year who’s most likely headed to the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

    “But I wouldn’t think that would be too far down the line,” Butler, who joined the Steelers’ coaching staff in 2003, the same year they drafted Polamalu, said in an interview. “He has a lot of the same instincts and vision of the field like Troy. We haven’t had it for a while.”

    Fitzpatrick refines that intuition during the week. When studying film, he visualizes what he would do if the quarterback looked this way, if the receiver ran this route. He wants the information to be so ingrained that he can just react.

    That’s what he did on Nov. 3 against Indianapolis, when after reading the formation and deciphering tight end Jack Doyle’s route, he noticed quarterback Brian Hoyer looking left as his shoulders opened to the right. Before Hoyer released the ball Fitzpatrick had darted toward Doyle, bounding in front to intercept the pass, returning it 96 yards for a touchdown.

    “If the ball’s in the air,” cornerback Mike Hilton said of Fitzpatrick’s anticipation, “it could be ours.”

    That proves true even when Fitzpatrick is not in coverage. Late in the fourth quarter against the Rams on Nov. 10, Fitzpatrick sensed that quarterback Jared Goff would be throwing in cornerback Joe Haden’s direction, so he played over the top, waiting for the ball to come. It did. Diving, Haden deflected it — right to Fitzpatrick, trailing behind, for the victory-securing interception. On the Fox broadcast, Daryl Johnston relayed a conversation with Goff, who had emphasized the importance of locating Fitzpatrick after every snap.

    “You can’t be afraid to make decisions,” Butler said, “and he’s not.”

    At his locker, Fitzpatrick explained why. His best quality as a player, he said, is his instinct, and not once since leaving Miami nearly three months ago has he regretted asking to be dealt. He has never grappled with how he would be perceived in South Florida, where his former teammates are toiling through a 3-9 season.

    He still has friends there, but not as many as on his new team. Since the trade, the Steelers rank second in opposing completion percentage and passer rating, according to Pro Football Reference, and have charged into contention. According to tankathon.com, that first-round pick heading to Miami projects at No. 22.

    Fitzpatrick changed his fortunes for the better. His team’s, too.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/04/s...core-ios-share

  9. #149
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    nice find hawaiian... thanks for posting.

  10. #150
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    Who cannot love this trade. We’re set at a position of need for years!

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