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Thread: Just sayin...

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    I can’t buy that Colbert hasn’t been able to not find someone for 12 years. It’s more like we don’t have a coach who really knows how to develop them.
    I suggest you go look at the defensive rankings under Tomlin they are actually pretty good. If your contention is still we have only had bad secondary players then its even a better coaching job by Tomlin. The draft is a crap shoot especially when you are a winning team which is why uou saw us go out and pick up Hayden, Nelson, Fitzpatrick through free agency. Now we also have some nice secondaty players on the roster, Edmunds, Hilton, Sutton. Also I think even though Burns has been rough I think he gets some redemption this weekend.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.wizard View Post
    I suggest you go look at the defensive rankings under Tomlin they are actually pretty good. If your contention is still we have only had bad secondary players then its even a better coaching job by Tomlin. The draft is a crap shoot especially when you are a winning team which is why uou saw us go out and pick up Hayden, Nelson, Fitzpatrick through free agency. Now we also have some nice secondaty players on the roster, Edmunds, Hilton, Sutton. Also I think even though Burns has been rough I think he gets some redemption this weekend.
    Maniac,

    In case you missed the ranking, they're on pg 9 of this thread.

    http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums...st-sayin/page9
    Talent vs coaching: [url]www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/48851-Poll-Question-for-Everyone/page14[/url]

    Steelers vs. Other Teams with good QBs: ... /47985-Steelers-most-successful-failure/page5

    Tomlin playoff record vs. expectations (Cowher pg24): ... /48742-Rooney-Brown-meeting/page22

    Tomlin's Las year: ... 49599-Just-sayin?p=778284#post778284

    Maniac Talent>Coaching: ...49632-Trades?p=779158#post779158

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    Maniac,

    In case you missed the ranking, they're on pg 9 of this thread.

    http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums...st-sayin/page9
    Something happened around 2013 and it's been downhill since for the D. I know Lebeau left after 2014 after 2 subpar seasons on D. But now Mike Tomlin and Keith Butler have had 4 straight bad seasons by historic standards for this team even during the Tomlin era.

    IMHO, I think DL deserved more leeway than MT. DL had a lot more success for a longer time than MT. They had some great success together. I think we should have stuck with DL and tried to iron out the issues with him instead of without him.

    On the same token, seeing that we didn't get better post DL, I'm not sure canning MT is the current answer either.

    Either way, WTF happened in 2013? And why did it take about 5 years to come back from there? I think we're on the verge of becoming a better D this season.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    Maniac,

    In case you missed the ranking, they're on pg 9 of this thread.

    http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums...st-sayin/page9
    Again...we’ve had this discussion. In the 2017 season , when we were 13-3. On paper, we had a wonderful defensive ranking. Because we only faced two legit qbs that year in Brady and Stafford. We had a cup cake schedule so our end of the year stats were wonderful.

    This is why “
    Stats” do t always tell the whole story. Everybody in here KNOWS our secondary hasn’t been up to snuff for years. That’s what our eyeballs tell us. You can roll out whatever stats you need to help you sleep better at night but you know what our secondary has looked like since TP has left.

    Good attempt thou. Appreciate the effort by you.
    From the 2010-2019 season, (An 9 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. So why delay the inevitable?

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.wizard View Post
    I suggest you go look at the defensive rankings under Tomlin they are actually pretty good. If your contention is still we have only had bad secondary players then its even a better coaching job by Tomlin. The draft is a crap shoot especially when you are a winning team which is why uou saw us go out and pick up Hayden, Nelson, Fitzpatrick through free agency. Now we also have some nice secondaty players on the roster, Edmunds, Hilton, Sutton. Also I think even though Burns has been rough I think he gets some redemption this weekend.
    Stats dont always tell the whole story. Secondary so good that Blake Bortles scores 17 points in the 4 qtr alone. 17 points....Blake Bortles. See? Stats don’t tell the whole story.

    Then go back to the year that manning won with Denver; how did that vaunted secondary perform that year in the playoffs? You see? Seasonal stats dont tell the whole story.
    From the 2010-2019 season, (An 9 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. So why delay the inevitable?

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.wizard View Post
    I suggest you go look at the defensive rankings under Tomlin they are actually pretty good. If your contention is still we have only had bad secondary players then its even a better coaching job by Tomlin. The draft is a crap shoot especially when you are a winning team which is why uou saw us go out and pick up Hayden, Nelson, Fitzpatrick through free agency. Now we also have some nice secondaty players on the roster, Edmunds, Hilton, Sutton. Also I think even though Burns has been rough I think he gets some redemption this weekend.
    Stats dont always tell the whole story. Secondary so good that Blake Bortles scores 17 points in the 4 qtr alone. 17 points....Blake Bortles. See? Stats donít tell the whole story.

    Then go back to the year that manning won with Denver; how did that vaunted secondary perform that year in the playoffs? You see? Seasonal stats dont tell the whole story.
    From the 2010-2019 season, (An 9 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. So why delay the inevitable?

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Stats dont always tell the whole story. Secondary so good that Blake Bortles scores 17 points in the 4 qtr alone. 17 points....Blake Bortles. See? Stats don’t tell the whole story.

    Then go back to the year that manning won with Denver; how did that vaunted secondary perform that year in the playoffs? You see? Seasonal stats dont tell the whole story.
    Actually looking at an entire season does tell the whole story, looking at one quarter or one game is not telling the whole story. You see?

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.wizard View Post
    Actually looking at an entire season does tell the whole story, looking at one quarter or one game is not telling the whole story. You see?
    Nope. You just don’t get it. And that’s okay. You can continue to make excuses and used skewed numbers. But your not getting what you want; your not getting to Suoer bowls with those wonderful secondaries your proclaiming. So we see by results which one of us is right... and it isn’t you. You have no super bowl appearances or victories. So your secondary obviously wasn’t that great.


    Boom.
    From the 2010-2019 season, (An 9 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. So why delay the inevitable?

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.wizard View Post
    Actually looking at an entire season does tell the whole story, looking at one quarter or one game is not telling the whole story. You see?
    Something something...Small sample sizes...something something
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 10-12-2019 at 02:22 PM.
    Talent vs coaching: [url]www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/48851-Poll-Question-for-Everyone/page14[/url]

    Steelers vs. Other Teams with good QBs: ... /47985-Steelers-most-successful-failure/page5

    Tomlin playoff record vs. expectations (Cowher pg24): ... /48742-Rooney-Brown-meeting/page22

    Tomlin's Las year: ... 49599-Just-sayin?p=778284#post778284

    Maniac Talent>Coaching: ...49632-Trades?p=779158#post779158

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by flippy View Post
    Something happened around 2013 and it's been downhill since for the D. I know Lebeau left after 2014 after 2 subpar seasons on D. But now Mike Tomlin and Keith Butler have had 4 straight bad seasons by historic standards for this team even during the Tomlin era.

    IMHO, I think DL deserved more leeway than MT. DL had a lot more success for a longer time than MT. They had some great success together. I think we should have stuck with DL and tried to iron out the issues with him instead of without him.

    On the same token, seeing that we didn't get better post DL, I'm not sure canning MT is the current answer either.

    Either way, WTF happened in 2013? And why did it take about 5 years to come back from there? I think we're on the verge of becoming a better D this season.
    DL's biggest problem?... could not figure out how to beat NE. That's a death sentence in the playoffs. Tomlin's teams seem to at least hold their own, this season excluded.
    One thing I look at as a sign of a good coach is whether the team gets better as the season progresses, stays the same, or gets worse.

    Tomlin's 1st half / 2nd half season record for his career:

    0.619% W / 0.667% W

    Now here's something interesting, since 2010 his 1st/2nd half record:

    0.578% W / 0.708% W

    There's a marked improvement in the team's success as the season progresses in recent times, one of the reasons why I consider him a great coach.

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