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Thread: Terrell Edmunds WTF!?!!?

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by steeler_fan_in_t.o. View Post
    I've always been more of a "wait and see" kind of guy. The guy is an athlete, grew up with a coach as a dad, and I like to use the third year as a "show me" year for young players. After two years of experience in this system, let's see what happens.
    I like to take this approach too.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Interesting factoid; in games after the Fitz trade the Steelers defense had a negative EPA of something like -0.4 per play.

    Tells me someone... or everyone was doing their job really well.
    I think it's usually a combination of factors. I think some of the opposition's offenses toned it down a bit because they knew the Steelers offense was so bad. As a result, the opposition didn't need to press as hard to score. Maybe the opposition would had scored more if they needed?

    Im not trying to take anything away from what the defense accomplished. They improved and accomplished great things. Just stating that our offenses ineptitude had an impact outside of not being able to score. Shows that football is a team game.

  3. #83
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    Many here wanted Justin Reid. He was drafted in the 3rd round and has had the better career this far.

    Justin Reid was the far better prospect and is the far better pro. Many here knew it but somehow the Steelers FO couldn't see the obvious. You didn't need to be a scout to see it.

    The Steelers blew it. They reached. They could have got a playmaker in the 1st. Instead, we have a Edmunds, a mid round talent.
    Tomlin: Let's unleash hell and "mop the floor" with the competition.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelz09 View Post
    Many here wanted Justin Reid. He was drafted in the 3rd round and has had the better career this far.

    Justin Reid was the far better prospect and is the far better pro. Many here knew it but somehow the Steelers FO couldn't see the obvious. You didn't need to be a scout to see it.

    The Steelers blew it. They reached. They could have got a playmaker in the 1st. Instead, we have a Edmunds, a mid round talent.
    Well, we’ve got to hope he gets better.
    From the 2010-2019 season, (A 9 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks.

    Dolphin fans in the 90ís who wanted to hold on to Don Shula for what he did in the playoffs in the 70ís...
    Are the same as Steeler fans (of 2020 ) holding on to Tomlin for what he did in 2008, with Cowher's players & coaches

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelz09 View Post
    Many here wanted Justin Reid. He was drafted in the 3rd round and has had the better career this far.

    Justin Reid was the far better prospect and is the far better pro. Many here knew it but somehow the Steelers FO couldn't see the obvious. You didn't need to be a scout to see it.

    The Steelers blew it. They reached. They could have got a playmaker in the 1st. Instead, we have a Edmunds, a mid round talent.
    Blew it? I don’t think so.

    Everyone always wants what another team has when it works but when that player has a down year or falls off most people don’t revisit and discuss.
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    Blew it? I don’t think so.

    Everyone always wants what another team has when it works but when that player has a down year or falls off most people don’t revisit and discuss.
    Nah, they blew it.
    Here We Go Steelers, Here We Go...
    Here We Go Steelers, Here We Go...
    Here We Go Steelers, Here We Go...!!!

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by SidSmythe View Post
    Nah, they blew it.
    Oh, okay... you’ve made a convincing argument.
    Tomlinís coming back so what can you do?


  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by BURGH86STEEL View Post
    I think it's usually a combination of factors. I think some of the opposition's offenses toned it down a bit because they knew the Steelers offense was so bad. As a result, the opposition didn't need to press as hard to score. Maybe the opposition would had scored more if they needed?

    Im not trying to take anything away from what the defense accomplished. They improved and accomplished great things. Just stating that our offenses ineptitude had an impact outside of not being able to score. Shows that football is a team game.
    That's a fair point Burgh.
    Teams probably figured they only needed a couple of TDs and FG to win so why press.

  9. #89
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    Terrell Edmunds Still Searching For Splash Plays

    By Alex Kozora
    Posted on February 17, 2020

    As you can tell by the title, this isnít exactly going to be a kind article to Terrell Edmunds. And itís not. Weíre taking a critical look at one of the biggest issues in his game. But before getting into all that, I do want to point out Edmunds hasnít played poorly and though he didnít progress as much as thought as I would, he still took a step forward in 2019.

    Ok, now to the critique.

    Through his first two seasons, Edmunds has logged 2022 defensive snaps, most by any Steeler over that span (Joe Haden trails behind, slightly, at 2011). And yet heís struggled as much as anyone on this unit to take the football away. In 2019, a year where Pittsburgh led the league in turnovers with a gaudy 38, Edmunds wasnít responsible for a single one. That feels almost impossible given his snap count. Logic says he would luck himself into an interception or even just fall on a loose ball for a fumble recovery. But no. It didnít happen.

    Itís an issue thatís plagued him in both seasons. In his 31 career starts, he has just two takeaways (interceptions, forced fumbles, and fumble recoveries). Both came during his rookie season. A fumble recovery in Week 4 against Baltimore and an interception off a terrible Ryan Fitzpatrick overthrow the week prior. Thatís it.

    And honestly, thatís pretty amazing when you compare it to NFL history.

    Using Pro Football Referenceís data, since 1993 Ė when they began to track forced fumbles Ė I looked at all safeties with at least 30 starts with two or fewer career takeaways or potential ones, as is the case with forced fumbles.

    Itís a staggeringly short list.

    Terrell Edmunds Ė 2018-2019
    Michael Ball Ė 1988-1993


    And honestly, Ball may not even qualify. Itís possible he forced two fumbles between í88 and í92, before PFR tracked it. But because we donít know, weíll keep him on the list.

    Even if you expand the list to all DBs, so including corners, it doesnít grow by much.

    William Jackson III Ė 2016-2019
    Nevin Lawson Ė 2014-2019
    William Bartee Ė 2000-2005

    Funny enough, the Steelers were planning on selecting Jackson III in 2016 until the Cincinnati Bengals snagged him one pick ahead. That still wouldíve been a very good choice, especially comparing it to Artie Burns, but itís humorous to see his name pop up on such a small list.

    Letís be extra fair to Edmunds. All I did was set a floor. Minimum 30 starts. So a safety with 100 starts isnít going to show up on that list because obviously, with that much playing time, theyíre going to have more than two takeaways. So letís put a cap on those starts. Here are all the safeties with 25-45 career starts since 2015 and their takeaway numbers. They averaged:

    4.6 INTs
    2.0 FFs
    1.4 FRs

    That totals seven takeaways. On average. And Edmunds only has a pair. Substantial difference.

    Edmunds has shown improvement as a tackler and with overall consistency. Calling him a liabiilty is a stretch. An assessment I donít agree with. But in an era where itís harder to play defense than ever before due to rule changes and how nuanced and refined offenses have become, itís imperative to have players who can take the football away. Especially for your starting safeties who are playing more than anyone else. Literal every-down players. He has as many INTs as his brother, Trey, who is a running back.

    Trading for Minkah Fitzpatrick helps mask the issue. Fitzpatrick is a bonafide playmaker and makes Edmundsí deficiency here more palatable. But itís still an issue. A defense can never have enough playmakers nor will it ever say theyíre taking the ball away too much. As offenses have wised up and started avoiding Fitzpatrick, you need someone like Edmunds to make plays on the ball. And the numbers reflect that. According to our charting, Edmunds was targeted nearly double Fitzpatrick. Edmundsí QB rating when targeted was essentially worst on the team (139.6), only trailing Kam Kelly. He struggles to find the ball in the air, let alone make a play on it, and it causes him to give up too many catches (70% completion rate when targeted) and too many penalties (tied second in pass interference on the team).

    If Edmundsí turnover-less streak continues, itíll be increasingly difficult to think heíll be in their long-term plans. Defenses win with turnovers. Every offense is going to move the ball, every offense puts up points. Defenses win with red zone play, third down efficiency, and turnovers. Stealing a possession. Making that late-game stop. Thatís the key. In this era, Edmunds failing to provide that is a problem.

    Of course, itís fair to point out he just finished his second season. Heís still only 22 and if Bud Dupree proved everything, patience is a virtue. Edmunds may turn things around. Luck is an element too. Being in the right place at the right time to capitalize on a bad throw by a QB, a loose ball that takes a fortunate bounce at your feet. I get that.

    Heís a young player whoís yet to hit his ceiling, remember he declared a year early, but itís hard to lean on that excuse too much. Fitzpatrick also finished his second year, got traded mid-season, and still balled out. His football instincts are well ahead of Edmunds, a level heíll probably never reach. Joe Haden picked off six passes his rookie year. Generally, and yes, thereís always exceptions, you find out pretty quickly if someone is a ballhawk or not. Edmunds isnít a bad player. Just a bad playmaker. Right now, anyway.

    But just like with the defense as a whole last year, Iíll be keeping a close eye on Edmundsí numbers. His lack of splash plays are historically bad and the #1 area he needs to improve heading into 2020.

    https://steelersdepot.com/2020/02/te...-splash-plays/

  10. #90
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    While itís way too early to give up on him and the possibility of becoming a playmaker; his stats over 2 years are dismal:

    Passer rating allowed against Steelers secondary in 2019:

    Minkah Fitzpatrick: 43.1
    Cameron Sutton: 52.1
    Joe Haden: 60.9
    Steven Nelson: 66.6
    Mike Hilton: 84.8
    Terrell Edmunds: 139.1

    1036 defensive snaps played Ė 0 INT, 0 FF, 0 FR, 0 sacks

    30 games played since his last interception (only 1 in 31 starts, 32 games played)

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